GRRM considering big twist for a major character

[BalerionTheCat]

It should be a character already in the show, not one never introduced. Because "the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it". For example, they could still introduce LSH, or Aegon, or even Tyrion 1st wife. So it must be something more drastic.

My 1st thought was Jeyne Westerling finally giving an heir to Robb. It could also be Jojen doing something, but must something Bran or Meira could not do. I don't see what.

In fact, GRRM did not say the character was dead, just "a couple decisions". My guess is Theon. I was surprised by what Ramsey did to him in the show (yes that thing!). To me, the books were not even suggesting it. And all Ramsey's threats of cutting something were more efficient if the deed was not yet done. So, I believe the "twist" is Theon becoming the Lord of the Iron Islands. Or at least marrying someone. Maybe the real Arya, after the play with the false Arya.

[Ninerings]

Patchface? Haven't seen him mentioned, and he can affect many major characters around him....

[VeganAlien]

One thing I am beginning to suspect about Martin is that he's one of those writers who work well under pressure. He's feeling the pressure of the show gaining on the book series and may very well pump out the last 2 books in the next couple of years. As for making the changes to one particular character, he's a Gardener writer, and we Gardeners tend to get sudden epiphanies about our characters while in the midst of writing. Once when writing for NaNaWriMo, a character development I hadn't thought of hit me suddenly like a ton of bricks (and it fit in with everything I had written previously). Of course, it was a 65,000-word mess of a first draft and not the bulky epic that Martin is writing, but the principle is the same. I find as a Gardener, sometimes it feels like the story sometimes almost reveals itself to the writer out of the ether. ;)

My take on his comment - it's a character that has either been killed, cut from the show or whose character arc is completely different from the books. Also, his comment may be misleading - a "long-time character" may be one from AFFC (published 11 years ago, which is a long time) like Arianne Martell, so I wouldn't rule her out. It could also be a character who was mentioned in the first book, but not an active character as of yet (like Lyanna Stark - who knows, maybe she faked her death - I don't believe that, but if anyone could find a way to make something so unlikely happen, it's Martin). Who knows, for all we know Martin might be referring to a minor character who trips with a spear in his hand, falls, and accidentally impales Dany through the heart. LOL! I can picture him now, crying triumphantly, "Finally - the Meereenese Knot is untangled!" while cackling diabolically at the fan outrage that he knows will follow as a result of Boba-Fetting Dany. ;)

[Weirdo]

This puppygate really disappointed me. Don't need politics to be main issue when considering the QUALITY of books.

This might be right. A+J=T and L+R=J are BIG fan theories being endlessly debated over and over and over again on the boards for the last 10 yr+, definitely not something "never previously considered"

When GRRM says "big, revealing twist on a long-time character that he never previously considered. “This is going to drive your readers crazy,” "

I would think this is going to be something entirely new and not really considered except as crazy-never-going-to-happen theory.

Another horrifying affect of puppygate is that it will definitely contribute to the delay of Winds of Winter! George has written some long, thoughtful and heartfelt posts on Not A Blog, refuting the Puppies' arguments, and he seems to be actively monitoring the posts to keep it civil, which is a challenge in this charged atmosphere. It's got to be somewhat time consuming, and that's time away from the novel! However, fighting a good fight like he's doing, especially around complicated issues, should help the book in the long run - he will take inspiration from the struggle, I believe, considering the nature of the thing, and the nature of The World of Ice and Fire. He deserves it for what he is doing. My admiration for him has doubled this week.

[SevasTra82]

Another horrifying affect of puppygate is that it will definitely contribute to the delay of Winds of Winter! George has written some long, thoughtful and heartfelt posts on Not A Blog, refuting the Puppies' arguments, and he seems to be actively monitoring the posts to keep it civil, which is a challenge in this charged atmosphere. It's got to be somewhat time consuming, and that's time away from the novel! However, fighting a good fight like he's doing, especially around complicated issues, should help the book in the long run - he will take inspiration from the struggle, I believe, considering the nature of the thing, and the nature of The World of Ice and Fire. He deserves it for what he is doing. My admiration for him has doubled this week.

Well, it just goes to show you, GRRM has more going on in his life then writing TWOW. People sometimes forget that he's a human being with interests that are *not* a prt of ASOIAF, and his defense on his blog in recent days is proof. He has another HBO show in the works, books to edit, short stories to write, conventions he's already committed to, and on top of all that, he's got to actually live his OWN life.

It's actually been nice to read his recent posts. It's giving us another side of GRRM that we normally don't get to see. He's a fantastic person to talk to and debate with, unfortunately people don't get to see that side of him often because he's too busy dodging redundant TWOW questions.

[juanml82]

Well, it just goes to show you, GRRM has more going on in his life then writing TWOW. People sometimes forget that he's a human being with interests that are *not* a prt of ASOIAF, and his defense on his blog in recent days is proof. He has another HBO show in the works, books to edit, short stories to write, conventions he's already committed to, and on top of all that, he's got to actually live his OWN life.

It's actually been nice to read his recent posts. It's giving us another side of GRRM that we normally don't get to see. He's a fantastic person to talk to and debate with, unfortunately people don't get to see that side of him often because he's too busy dodging redundant TWOW questions.

Yet to be fair, he intentionally ended ADWD with major cliffhangers. How much can he complain about people wanting to know how they turn out?

[Weirdo]

Well, it just goes to show you, GRRM has more going on in his life then writing TWOW. People sometimes forget that he's a human being with interests that are *not* a prt of ASOIAF, and his defense on his blog in recent days is proof. He has another HBO show in the works, books to edit, short stories to write, conventions he's already committed to, and on top of all that, he's got to actually live his OWN life.

It's actually been nice to read his recent posts. It's giving us another side of GRRM that we normally don't get to see. He's a fantastic person to talk to and debate with, unfortunately people don't get to see that side of him often because he's too busy dodging redundant TWOW questions.

Yeah, I was struck in the posts by how much his life is entwined with SF&F history and culture, and how much he cares about it. Also how smart he is! I saw him accept his award at Chicon, but I didn't get to talk to him. I met Silverberg, though, and Resnick, and they were both extremely friendly, and like George, seem to have this constant undertone of amusement going on. I guess that comes with the years, watching things come and go.

[bent branch]

I was reading this interview with GRRM:

http://observationdeck.io9.com/george-r-r-martin-the-complete-unedited-interview-886117845

This is an interview from July 2013, so it isn't new and probably everyone has already read it. I've probably already read it before (parts of it did seem really familiar). I wouldn't even bring it up, but there was these two sections of the interview that made me think of this topic:

But there would be some secondary characters, like Bronn, Tyrion's henchman, [who] became a such a popular character. He came out of nowhere. [i was thinking], "Okay, Tyrion has meets these two sellswords, Bronn and Chiggen. And one's going to fight for him. Which one is it gonna be? Okay, we'll go with Bronn." But as I wrote about him, he developed a personality of his own. And his past is super-mysterious, you don't know where he's born from, where he comes from, but he's fun to write about. He comes into a scene — once he's been cast in the TV show, they have a wonderful actor playing him — he becomes real.

And:

I don't want to reveal what I've planned for some of these characters, but I'm pretty well on track with most of the major characters. It's minor characters like Bronn that assume greater importance.

Reading these two things make me feel fairly certain that the character that GRRM has figured out a twist for is Bronn. I think GRRM has finally figured out Bronn's backstory.

[Mithras]

I was reading this interview with GRRM:

http://observationdeck.io9.com/george-r-r-martin-the-complete-unedited-interview-886117845

This is an interview from July 2013, so it isn't new and probably everyone has already read it. I've probably already read it before (parts of it did seem really familiar). I wouldn't even bring it up, but there was these two sections of the interview that made me think of this topic:

And:

Reading these two things make me feel fairly certain that the character that GRRM has figured out a twist for is Bronn. I think GRRM has finally figured out Bronn's backstory.

There is another interview with D&D about the time they went to George to speak the future events last time. They said that George had not decided all the details even for the big characters like Arya.

[alienarea]

With all the whitewashing of Tyrion done in the show I can see him end up as the ruthless evil gnome like Cersei always said.

[Steve Stark]

I was reading this interview with GRRM:

http://observationdeck.io9.com/george-r-r-martin-the-complete-unedited-interview-886117845

This is an interview from July 2013, so it isn't new and probably everyone has already read it. I've probably already read it before (parts of it did seem really familiar). I wouldn't even bring it up, but there was these two sections of the interview that made me think of this topic:

And:

Reading these two things make me feel fairly certain that the character that GRRM has figured out a twist for is Bronn. I think GRRM has finally figured out Bronn's backstory.

Hmm....I've read a lot of this stuff, but this is definitely a possibility.

[Queen Arya]

to me, with 3 or 4 characters involved it has to be something related to dany/tyrion or jaime/brienne.

jaime and brienne obviously because there is no Stoneheart in the show and dany (or tyrion) because they cut victarion's storyline.

i personally thinks its with dany/tyrion. the missing greyjoys (as much as i dont like them) have to impact dany's (or tyrion's) gameplan in some major way.

im crossing my fingers that it doesnt involve jaime or brienne... if it does i have a feeling it will go worst for them than what Martin had planned previously. :crying: :crying:

bronn could have a backstory (i hope he does!) but he doesnt seem to be that major of a character to change so drastically the story (i'm assuming that if its a big twist it will influence the story in a big way)

unless bronn has targ/blackfyre blood or its jon arryn's bastard or some crazy shit like that :ack:

[Steve Stark]

The only thing is, Tyrion is his favorite character, or so he's said over the many years. YOu'd think he already knows the end and all the twists to his story....or maybe not.

Part of me wonders if Dany immediately kills Tyrion and sends his head to Cersei, as a token of good will. Maybe she'll use Cersei to get into KL, and then offer her and her brother special non-Targ incest allowances, and a position in court?

Totally fantasizing right now, not because I want Tyrion to die, but because when she got there she could kill Cersei too and show how ruthless she is. Because I HATE Cersei (I've said this before a few times, I"m almost positive.)

Plus it would be a huge twist, because everyone assumes he's going to live since he's George's favorite, especially with the "leaked letter" of his original story.

[BalerionTheCat]

Reading these two things make me feel fairly certain that the character that GRRM has figured out a twist for is Bronn. I think GRRM has finally figured out Bronn's backstory.

Bronn is an interesting character. GRRM may well have (minor) surprises for us here. But I don't feel the show has closed much doors regarding him.

[Queen Arya]

i really dont think because tyrion is his favorite that gives the character a free pass to stay alive. i only think it means that he wont die until the last book.

in the last book all bets are off, imho.

and the major twist doesnt have to involve the character's death

i think tyrion and arya could die but it if they do, it will only happen in ADoS

[rondo has three heads]

I should probably read these forums more carefully because I only heard about this now.

I don't really have any thoughts about that new plot twist. We'll see... within a year, if all goes well.

Interesting to hear him talk so confidently about getting the book done in a year (also nice to hear it from him since that has been my estimate for some time now). Of course it's great news and it sounds like his writing is going well and all, but I still wish he didn't have to rush. I don't really have a reason to think rushing would affect the outcome but I guess you never know.

Anyway, I'm very happy for him! Great to hear about his writing process. He seems genuinely satisfied with himself right now.

He actually cautioned he might be overly optimistic in his pre-S6 goal, so I'm not sure how confident he is

[Weirdo]

Bronn is an interesting character. GRRM may well have (minor) surprises for us here. But I don't feel the show has closed much doors regarding him.

Right, not yet - but in Season 5 he's off to Dorne with Jaime, and George might know that they are planning to kill him off there. They are looking for characters to kill for shock value. They may consider him disposable (also I read somewhere that Jerome Flynn wants to pay more attention to his musical career, and he could be up for some sweet acting roles now). George paid way more attention to Bronn's social climbing successes than the show did. Now that he's a lord, he's in the game big time. If he has some previous connection to one of the big houses, or some loyalty to one of the big players, he's now in a position to act on it.

[BalerionTheCat]

Right, not yet - but in Season 5 he's off to Dorne with Jaime, and George might know that they are planning to kill him off there. They are looking for characters to kill for shock value. They may consider him disposable (also I read somewhere that Jerome Flynn wants to pay more attention to his musical career, and he could be up for some sweet acting roles now). George paid way more attention to Bronn's social climbing successes than the show did. Now that he's a lord, he's in the game big time. If he has some previous connection to one of the big houses, or some loyalty to one of the big players, he's now in a position to act on it.

Yes. I was not taking into account S05, because it is something already done ("the show has already"). But we could suppose GRRM knows what they are doing in Dorne. And could speak, taking that into account (not likely IMO, but not impossible). Anyway, someone will die in place of Oakheart, and it will, most likely, be Bronn.

[Weirdo]

Yes. I was not taking into account S05, because it is something already done ("the show has already"). But we could suppose GRRM knows what they are doing in Dorne. And could speak, taking that into account (not likely IMO, but not impossible). Anyway, someone will die in place of Oakheart, and it will, most likely, be Bronn.

Do you want to start the 'Bronn is Azor Ahai' thread, or shall I?

[bent branch]

Bronn is an interesting character. GRRM may well have (minor) surprises for us here. But I don't feel the show has closed much doors regarding him.

You have a point here. We'll have to see what season 5 has in store for Bronn. Maybe I was just enchanted with the idea of GRRM being intrigued with the mystery of one of his own characters. lol