19 Child Molestation Charges and Counting

[Myshkin]

So it turns out Josh Duggar's record of molestation was destroyed yesterday by the police who were ordered to do so by Judge Stacey Zimmerman. http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/tv/ct-josh-duggar-record-destroyed-20150522-story.html

I wonder who Judge Zimmerman was appointed by? http://staceyzimmermanjuvenilejudge.com/

eta: corrected name

To be fair, I read yesterday (can't remember where) that it was one of the victims who asked for the report to be destroyed, citing that she was afraid a non-redacted version might make its way to the press.

[ThinkerX]

Ok...I have read a few of the various articles on this mess, paying particular attention to the comments. Some observations:

There is a huge block of commentators, mostly female, who take the attitude that this is old news, perpetrator and victims alike received appropriate counseling, and so on. Some of these people lament the (apparent) demise of the show, nearly all make heavy use of the 'he was just a kid' argument. Some have made comparisons with Clinton's affairs, ignoring the line between consensual and nonconsensual sex. Strangely, many of these posters barely even mention the alleged victims.

Another block expresses the predictable disgust with child molesters, more or less making the standard arguments: these people rarely reform, and so on.

But I have also been seeing repeated reference to 'privilege' - that this whole mess was suppressed for so long due to the respective families influence. Huckabee's name gets mentioned here, as does Jim Bob. Yet even while covering this 'internal' scandal up, these people of influence issue harsh condemnations of those of different, voluntary sexual orientation.

To me, this looks like the new caste / class system at work - those of the higher social castes can get away with acts that result in harsh punishment for those of lower caste.

[jarl the climber]

Ok...I have read a few of the various articles on this mess, paying particular attention to the comments. Some observations:

There is a huge block of commentators, mostly female, who take the attitude that this is old news, perpetrator and victims alike received appropriate counseling, and so on. Some of these people lament the (apparent) demise of the show, nearly all make heavy use of the 'he was just a kid' argument. Some have made comparisons with Clinton's affairs, ignoring the line between consensual and nonconsensual sex. Strangely, many of these posters barely even mention the alleged victims.

Another block expresses the predictable disgust with child molesters, more or less making the standard arguments: these people rarely reform, and so on.

But I have also been seeing repeated reference to 'privilege' - that this whole mess was suppressed for so long due to the respective families influence. Huckabee's name gets mentioned here, as does Jim Bob. Yet even while covering this 'internal' scandal up, these people of influence issue harsh condemnations of those of different, voluntary sexual orientation.

To me, this looks like the new caste / class system at work - those of the higher social castes can get away with acts that result in harsh punishment for those of lower caste.

People with wealth and money or influence have always had another set of rules when it comes to things like this. Think about all those priests who got away with stuff because the church protected them while at the same time they were publicly critical of homosexuality.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Let's be fair here. Commodore no doubt came to this opinion after much thought and research into both cases.

http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/the-duggars-arent-hypocrites-progressives-are/

And in the interest of Equal Time, the Left has wasted no time in connecting the dots between Josh Duggar and a wide range of Conservative presidential hopefuls.

http://wonkette.com/586316/josh-duggar-touches-gop-presidential-candidates-with-same-hands-what-touched-his-sisters

Kind of reminds me of this old Kids in the Hall bit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbxqjDht8S4

[Shryke]

And in the interest of Equal Time, the Left has wasted no time in connecting the dots between Josh Duggar and a wide range of Conservative presidential hopefuls.

http://wonkette.com/586316/josh-duggar-touches-gop-presidential-candidates-with-same-hands-what-touched-his-sisters

Why wouldn't they? It's all the same nexus of political/religious beliefs.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Why wouldn't they? It's all the same nexus of political/religious beliefs.

Just pointing out that Commodore isn't the only one to politicize this story. Hell, referring to this group of bozos as presidential hopefuls is a joke all by itself.

[Shryke]

Just pointing out that Commodore isn't the only one to politicize this story. Hell, referring to this group of bozos as presidential hopefuls is a joke all by itself.

But they are presidential candidates and Josh Duggar was seeing them in his capacity as an executive director of a lobbying/hate group. No one is politicizing it. That aspect is inherently political.

[Guest]

Yeah, child molestation is not inherently political, but this child molester is.

And as the slate piece that's been making the rounds points out, JD himself is also something of a victim, and I completely agree with that point while stressing, as the author of that piece does, that it does not excuse things.

The Duggar parents are sub-human monsters who should be mocked and shamed for every second of their lives. But even making that statement makes me wonder where they came from. Maybe they got the brainwashing pretty hard themselves.

ETA: Sorry, to my first line....the GOP is so depraved that it was considered a must to appear with this poor kid...the poor offspring of papa Duggar. Forget the individuals like Cruz, Santorum, Huckabee, et al...consider the deeper implications. Those politicians did that because their support demands it. Replace Santorum with another idiot and they'll also be clamoring to appear with Duggar. Replace Huckabee with another huckster and they'll be appearing with Duggar.

[Hayyoth]

Just pointing out that Commodore isn't the only one to politicize this story. Hell, referring to this group of bozos as presidential hopefuls is a joke all by itself.

Yeah welcome to the culture wars. No matter how guttural, corrupt or dishonest as long as they're on your side they get a pass. Without knowing the details Duggar seems to have behaved like a POS abuser and deserves all the condemnation he's getting, the thought of children suffering like that makes me want to vomit. But cue endless diatribes from individuals who're less appalled by his crimes than smelling blood in the water. Frankly I'm fucking sick of it.

[Dr. Pepper]

I've raged about this family on the forum a couple time before. I have found it sickening that they have been rewarded and celebrated as some sort of example of the ideal model family. It's upsetting that the media is using this horrible crime to appear shocked that the Duggars are part of a dangerous, horrible cult that protects sexual abusers, victim shames, forces women to be responsible for male sexuality and more. The media is acting like they didn't have a clue, even though less than a week ago, their last episode had the mother explicitly stating that it's the woman's fault if a man experiences or acts upon desire when looking upon her. They have books describing women who are not pure as being similar to broken bicycles and cups of spit. They proudly walk around with their hate speech, with one of them even having been a director of a hate organization. Yet, for more than a decade they graced magazine covers, went on interview circuits, traveled the world, etc. They don't hide the fact that their older children have been charged with raising the younger children. And now the media acts like this is all new information being uncovered alongside the molestation reports (which, btw, had been a rumor circling the family for years, though I never imagined it could be as bad as it turned out to be).

The sad thing is that this family might have enough support that TLC can justify not canceling their show. Pulling episodes from the summer schedule is such a joke and makes it look like they are hoping to just ride out the storm. Sponsors aren't even making official statements or pulling out, save for an unconfirmed report that General Mills pulled their sponsorship. It's so upsetting to think that the only ones that may suffer any sort of consequences are the victims in all of this.

The Duggar parents are sub-human monsters who should be mocked and shamed for every second of their lives. But even making that statement makes me wonder where they came from. Maybe they got the brainwashing pretty hard themselves.

From what I've read of them over the years, the father is from a standard conservative christian family. Michelle didn't become a christian until her late teen years, around the time she met Jim Bob. They chose to join the fundie cults all on their own. Which, yeah, the cults are inherently brainwashing, as is religion in general. But brainwashing can't take all the blame.

[The_BlauerDragon]

Bushmills at 9am? Hardcore.

Eh, not so much. I got home from work at 7am and was just unwinding myself to catch a few winks before going back to work at 4pm. Drinking some Bushmills right now, in fact.

Oddly enough, I currently work at a county jail and have had to become much more familiar with child molesters and the like than I would have ever wanted to.

You never know what demons someone may be facing. All too often, the perpetrators of these heinous crimes were victims themselves at one point in time. That doesn't excuse it, mind you. Nothing excuses it. The only details that I would need to know in order to call it "abuse" is - Was there unwanted physical contact of a sexual nature? If the answer to that is "Yes", then it is abuse and it should be prosecuted.

The point that I think we often fail to see in the justice system, especially in cases like this, though is that justice should not be about punishment. It should not be about making the guilty pay, or exacting retribution. It should not be about vengeance. It should be about protection and about safeguarding society. In order to be justice, it should be looked at in terms of "what is needed to reasonably ensure that this crime will not be repeated by this person?"

As for the hypocrisy element? Yes, it is quite common that those who are vocal and overt about their faith are not as Holy and upstanding as they would have you believe. Rarely, if ever, are they even as Holy and upstanding as they would try to shame someone else into being. That doesn't mean that all religion is false, or that all religious people are hypocrites. It just means that people are people and they are people too.

I wholly reject any argument that attempts to politicize this into a right or left or conservative or liberal argument though. There are more than enough demons for all sides to share. There is more than enough blame, as well. I refuse to marginalize an issue such as this with political crossfire. The victims of such crimes deserve better than that. Let us focus our attentions there. If the brother is guilty of this monstrous crime, then that needs to be dealt with in a court of law so that the victims can begin the road to healing and recovery.

If the household is conducive to this type of abuse, which it certainly seems that it may be from outward appearances, then all of the children need to be removed from the household and placed in a more protected environment. Unfortunately, foster care is a gamble at best. They'd either get a much better environment, a so-so environment, or a hell on earth environment filled with abuses that would make this look nominal (I've dealt with convicts that were proof positive of this).

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

If the brother is guilty of this monstrous crime, then that needs to be dealt with in a court of law so that the victims can begin the road to healing and recovery.

Unfortunately, we are far past the statute of limitations on this particular crime. Josh Duggar will not have his day in court unless it turns out that he has offended more recently, and that comes to light.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

The amount of empathy and understanding towards pedophiles that's being shown is deeply, deeply disturbing. I'm totally disgusted.

[Monday]

It's especially shitty and unfair that a crimes of abuse against children can pass their statute of limitations before the victim is an adult. How is that even allowed? It's insult to injury in cases where their guardians are the perpetrators or don't advocate for/protect them properly. Those kids have been failed completely. I hope they find their way clear of that disgusting environment and sue the pants off their parents, Josh, and the police.

[Lightysnake88]

Another thing about the political aspect...Jim bob is a politician. He's served, I believed, as an elected representative and ran for the Senate in a Republican primary where he lost to Tom Hutchinson

[Summah]

Just picking some nits, but unless it is shown that Josh Duggar has re-offended against young children, he couldn't properly be classed as a pedophile, especially since it is unclear as to the ages of the victims in question.

One the victims was 8 or 9 at the very oldest.

[Guest]

The amount of empathy and understanding towards pedophiles that's being shown is deeply, deeply disturbing. I'm totally disgusted.

Just picking some nits, but unless it is shown that Josh Duggar has re-offended against young children, he couldn't properly be classed as a pedophile, especially since it is unclear as to the ages of the victims in question.

I do agree, however, that the vast majority of the outrage in this case should be reserved for Jim Bob, Michelle and the church elders who were complicit in covering up what happened. The Duggars failed all of their children by covering this up rather than getting therapy for their daughters and making sure that Josh entered a treatment program.

ninja - was that directed at me?

If so, I would piggy-back off of great unwashed here. The point is not that anything Duggar did is OK. Not at all. It's simply that he himself was a victim of his monstrous parents and their cult friends. Read about Bill Gothard (name not created for irony's sake) here.

These are some of the most disgusting people we'll deal with in our lives.

Josh Duggar grew up in a home that was close to Bill Gothard. Gothard had to resign from his ministry because he fondled at least 32 girls. The Duggars were also connected with Doug Phillips, who was forced from his ministry after being outed as a sexual predator. The pastor of the Duggars’ church, the man who gave Mrs. Duggar her Mother of the Year award, resigned after a sex scandal. The highway patrolman, a family friend and an elder in a church connected to the Duggars’ religious circles, who was the first law enforcement person Jim Bob Duggar reported Josh’s issues to, is now serving a 56 year prison sentence for child porn. Josh Duggar grew up in a home that revered men in leadership who have turned out to be sexual abusers. One way or another, Josh Duggar did to his sisters what he knew (intuitively or directly) to do.

Thankfully for these folks, they have Mike Huckabee and Commodore coming to their rescue.

[Gertrude]

That's kind of the most disgusting thing, that the support for Josh from those that do is all about Josh. Not a word about how the parents failed their children in this situation. I have to think they just don't get it, and that's somehow worse than just looking at Josh in a vacuum. I could almost understand where people are coming from if they support Josh while at the same time being critical of his parents, but they are just left out of the discussion as if their actions were totally fine.

[ThinkerX]

Thankfully for these folks, they have Mike Huckabee and Commodore coming to their rescue.

Maybe not Huckabee anyway. Comments I have been reading on the various internet articles, even those who dismiss the charges, see Huckabee's presidential chances as dropping from 'slim' to 'nil' as a direct result of this mess. Quite a few said flat out Huckabee had lost their vote.

But what gets me is that many of the internet supporters of Duggar are women, and how they just sort of sideline the female victims. To them, protecting Duggar takes priority.

I also admit to being curious as to whether or not the sexual abuse actually stopped 'back then.' Doesn't seem to be the norm for predators of this sort. (Somehow, I get the suspicion that the local cops are getting set to purge a whole pile of more recent complaints.)

As to the religious aspect, I remember reading as part of my theological research from a dozen years past that extreme Christian groups - Jehovah Witnesses, 7th Day Adventists, Pentecostals, some Baptist groups, and others were a sort of dream come true for sexual predators. The whole emphasis in these groups is on top down, no questions asked obedience. Asking questions is tantamount to insulting God in this mindset, and the Devil is ALWAYS out to get you. And of course, people outside the group cannot be trusted, period. So, once a sexual predator attains a degree of power in such a group, he is home free.

[Crazydog7]

And the revisionist tour begins

http://madworldnews.com/duggar-girls-victimized/

Thats some logical gymnastics that I can't really fathom.