Feminism - Distractingly Sexy Edition

[Lily Valley]

I pulled this from File770 today.  It has pissed me off all day long.  An exchange between Santa Fe's ComicCon and a cosplayer got testy.  Whoever was in charge of Santa Fe's fb page called the cosplayer a "boob model" among saying many other unflattering things.

Reading through the entire exchange, I gathered that the person from Santa Fe was annoyed at being approached by professional cosplayers.  Their policy is that they do NOT pay cosplayers.  That could have been the end of the debate.  Instead, this vitriol has left me ill. 

The exchange was taken down, so these are screen captures.  A not-apology was issued later.  This article has reinforced my feelings that most of fandom in the commercial lands out there is still really hostile.  I have no experience with the big commercial cons and the more I read crap like this, less interest.  Sad, because there are quite a few of them around here.

 

 

[TerraPrime]

I only read the screen captures but I think they just expressed a right idea in a very poor way. I think the phenomenon of "booth babes" is real, and I applaud convention organizers who want to put a stop to it. How that bleeds over to cosplay, I am not sure. But it sounds to me like that is what they want to stop. They used problematic language that slut shames and devalues women's bodies in the process, and for that they should be called out for it and be held accountable. No argument on that.

 

What is also not good in their response is that apparent conviction that there's an orthodoxy to cosplay, that you have to make your own cotumes and props. I'm not so sure that it's someone else's place to define for other people what is and what isn't cosplay*. I think it's okay for the organizer to say that "we will promote this type of cosplay, but not that type," but it's not okay to say "this is cosplay, and that is not." In that, I think the organizers crossed a line.

[Lily Valley]

Terra, the organizers don't pay ANY of their cosplayers.  Simply stating, "We don't pay our cosplayers," would have been fine.  The fact that a rep for the con would be this nasty and hostile towards another professional in the same field  is ridiculous.  Whether or not this woman was a professional model, she is still a geek who works conventions. She models cosplay, ffs.

I understand your point about "booth babe" culture.  For conventions that appeal widely to cosplayers  it would be confusing and uncomfortable if every cosplayer were assumed to have been hired help.

I was so pissed about the boob model crack that I hadn't even begun getting pissed about the "sew your own stuff" comment.  I will dress up like Xena Warrior Princess whenever I damn well please and I will pay someone who will make me the appropriate costume with my good, hard-earned, no-sewin' money.  In fact, I might pay for some extra fancy space age boobs and go "model" them at Santa Fe.  I'll leave the damn tags on like Minnie Pearl.

[Squab]

Whilst I acknowledge the progressive abandonment of skills such as sewing as a big FU to the patriarchy, I still think sewing my own outfit gives a sense of achievement somewhat lacking from store bought costumes. 

Where does current feminism stand on the hyper-sexualisation of characters and their objectification as "boob models"? Or is it more seen as freedom to wear whatever one wants whether they are pandering to the patriarchy or not?

[Lily Valley]

Sorry. 

[Weeping Sore]

18 hours ago, Lily Valley said:

In fact, I might pay for some extra fancy space age boobs and go "model" them at Santa Fe.  I'll leave the damn tags on like Minnie Pearl.

Can I have 'em when you're done?

[all swedes are racist]

23 hours ago, Squab said:

Whilst I acknowledge the progressive abandonment of skills such as sewing as a big FU to the patriarchy, I still think sewing my own outfit gives a sense of achievement somewhat lacking from store bought costumes. 

Where does current feminism stand on the hyper-sexualisation of characters and their objectification as "boob models"? Or is it more seen as freedom to wear whatever one wants whether they are pandering to the patriarchy or not?

having a hard time believing these questions are being asked in good faith...

[karaddin]

I think as soon as you're trying to get into telling other people what is, or isn't, 'real' or 'acceptable' forms of the activity you're really being a bit of a douche at the very least.  Getting rid of the practice of using swimsuit models as wallpaper at geek events is absolutely a good move, but there is a world of difference between cosplay and that.  Yes, you can most certainly take your 'no paid cosplay' stand, and none of the cosplayers that I know, and to be fair I don't know them very well but I've started getting to know a few here really good ones here after GX Australia, seem like they'd object to that stand if it's consistent. 

But to appoint yourself as some outsider the arbitrary judge of who is and isn't putting sufficient effort into their cosplay to qualify as real cosplay? Fuck off, you don't know them, you don't know their abilities, their health, their time, or anything else.  You don't know what cosplaying in general, or that particular cosplay may mean to them.  You may want to judge them for getting their boobs out and feeling sexy, but you don't know what importance feeling sexually empowered may have to them at that time, or what importance that sexual character may have to them.  How they may have processed sexual trauma after years of suppression through such a character.  Or they could be queer, and they think the character is hot and it makes them feel good.  Or they could be straight and think the character is hot and *that* makes them feel good.  And all of those things are fine.  The problems come into it with the behaviour that is then imposed from other people, and knee jerk opposition to embodying sexuality can be bad for this as well, perhaps not as bad as the fuckwad nerd objectification of women, but patronising condescension can still be telling women they are too childish and stupid to make their own choices about their body.

[Lyanna Stark]

On 2016-05-18 at 7:39 AM, Squab said:

Where does current feminism stand on the hyper-sexualisation of characters and their objectification as "boob models"? Or is it more seen as freedom to wear whatever one wants whether they are pandering to the patriarchy or not?

This is a bit like asking "what are the Chinese people's thoughts on the weather".

Firstly, feminism isn't a monolithic entity with drones all thinking the same.

Secondly, the answer would be "it depends". Cosplayers seem to be a strange segment of fandom to target when it comes to "hyper sexualisation" since they may have different reasons for dressing up as they do. If you are instead talking about say, game creators insistence on still in this day and age outfitting all their female characters in chainmail bikinis with bare midriffs, then yes, that's pretty silly hyper-sexualisation. Honestly I am uncertain what or whom you are accusing of "hyper-sexuality" here, and in what context.

 

 

[Kalbear]

Hypersexualization makes me think of a bunch of meth heads speed dating except every 3 minutes they're having sex with someone else.

Anyway, carry on.

[Lyanna Stark]

2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Hypersexualization makes me think of a bunch of meth heads speed dating except every 3 minutes they're having sex with someone else.

Anyway, carry on.

I prefer your crazy imagination to my more pedestrian one.

[TerraPrime]

9 hours ago, Lyanna Stark said:

TIf you are instead talking about say, game creators insistence on still in this day and age outfitting all their female characters in chainmail bikinis with bare midriffs, then yes, that's pretty silly hyper-sexualisation.

 

 

Well, Squab is squab. So, moving on...

 

I want to report that in League of Legends, which is a big massive online game, they have done away with sexualizing the last 3 female champions they offered up. So, Kindred, Illaoi, and Taliyah. None of them are in skimpy outfits or have their boobs emphasized. So it's a good step in the right direction.

[Squab]

Unlike Arya in a world of fantasy, it remains hard not to be Squab.

13 hours ago, Lyanna Stark said:

This is a bit like asking "what are the Chinese people's thoughts on the weather".

Firstly, feminism isn't a monolithic entity with drones all thinking the same.

Secondly, the answer would be "it depends". Cosplayers seem to be a strange segment of fandom to target when it comes to "hyper sexualisation" since they may have different reasons for dressing up as they do. If you are instead talking about say, game creators insistence on still in this day and age outfitting all their female characters in chainmail bikinis with bare midriffs, then yes, that's pretty silly hyper-sexualisation. Honestly I am uncertain what or whom you are accusing of "hyper-sexuality" here, and in what context.

 

 

Feminism is pretty clear on some issues, I guess this one isn't one of them. I am for everyones freedom to wear whatever they want and not judged for it or told what they can and cant wear.  I took the reference of "boob model" from the ComiCon rep to be a reference to the hypersexualisation of some characters like Spider Gwen and their associated cosplay.  I understand some people do not want that and some do. I see it as no more offensive or influencing as many of the books we would have all read (considering the board), whether that hypersexualisation be in fantasy lands or real life.

[Maithanet]

14 hours ago, Squab said:

Feminism is pretty clear on some issues, I guess this one isn't one of them. I am for everyones freedom to wear whatever they want and not judged for it or told what they can and cant wear.  I took the reference of "boob model" from the ComiCon rep to be a reference to the hypersexualisation of some characters like Spider Gwen and their associated cosplay.  I understand some people do not want that and some do. I see it as no more offensive or influencing as many of the books we would have all read (considering the board), whether that hypersexualisation be in fantasy lands or real life.

I think you would do better to ask questions of "what do YOU (as a feminist) think of this?" as opposed to asking someone to stand in for all feminists, which is virtually impossible unless you are asking an incredibly banal question like "FGM, good or bad?" 

To answer the question you posed in that more answerable way, I definitely get tired of the popularity of chainmail bikinis and impossible cleavage in things like video games and comic books.  However, I don't think that people dressing at cons as whatever character they want is the problem.  I think that the issue is with content creators having a very narrow and male gazey idea of what female characters should look like, and while there have been some signs of improvement on that as TP pointed out, but there is still a long way to go.  I think that people in the video game and comic industry are aware of polls showing that women make up 50% or more of the market, but they have trouble really believing that to be the case, and thus want to create very sexual women characters because they think it sells. 

[sologdin]

as a proponent of classical compound purity, am kinda horrified by the fugly hybridization in 'hypersexualize.'  should rather be hypereroticize or supersexualize, yes?

maybe interpret those terms in a quantitative way, such as in the sexualization of minor children, or perhaps qualitatively via DSM-V, when diagnosing satyriasis, say.

[Maester Drew]

This video was directed by Em Ford, and I found her message to be quite profound.

Quote

Over the past few months, I've received thousands of messages from people all over the world who suffer or have suffered from acne, an insecurity or self confidence issues. 

I wanted to create a film that showed how social media can set unrealistic expectations on both women and men. One challenge many face today, is that as a society, we're so used to seeing false images of perfection, and comparing ourselves to unrealistic beauty standards that It can be hard to remember the most important thing - You ARE beautiful. 

You are beautiful - no matter how flawed you feel, no matter how upset you may about the way you look or how hard you find it to make friends, or be confident. Believe in yourself, and never let anyone tell you're not beautiful - not even yourself. 

 

[TerraPrime]

1 hour ago, Maester Drew said:

This video was directed by Em Ford, and I found her message to be quite profound.

 

The comments illustrated just how impossible it is for women to survive the public responses to their appearance. You're either ugly and need to do something, or you're a deceiving liar who falsely present yourself. It's both tragic and disheartening.

[butterbumps!]

On 5/8/2016 at 6:35 AM, butterbumps! said:

start of "Ivanka's accountable" discussion

I saw this the other day and thought to follow up in here since it directly speaks to the issues that were raised about the accountability of Trump's daughter for defending and promulgating his hateful views: from WaPo

In sum, the Latin American edition of Marie Claire magazine just ran a full cover story, largely comprised of letters to Ivanka, questioning her for being so involved in helping to shape (and apologize for) her father's campaign of hate, framed as appeals for her to steer her father's campaign for the better instead of the current trajectory.  From the article, I think much of the substance of this cover story (which I have not read first hand) is more focused on Trump's racism and xenophobia than the feminist issues I'd originally brought up, but thought the general idea of this might be appropriate here.  

I don't have much confidence that Ivanka has a better nature to appeal to for anything like this to have an impact on how she handles her involvement with her father's relentless Campaign of Hate, but I am relieved that the very industry that has built her up as some sort of admirable role model is questioning her fitness in that capacity.

[Elder Sister]

I just came to hide out in this thread for a bit and gird my loins, so to speak.  Here lately I have had to deal with several creepy coworkers who seem to think that offers of unsolicited back rubs and beers (when they know I've been in AA for 25+ years) should be met with joyful abandon.

And of course, they are now sulking because that didn't happen.  

I keep thinking that as I get older, this crap will stop.  

[TerraPrime]

I am afraid that this type of assumptive gestures will not end with your increasing age. And neither will the mainsplaining and other forms of aggrevating behavior. Some men are just horrible at this.