Hoster Tully should have stripped the Freys of some lands and raised their taxes

[True.Kitn902]

During Roberts rebellion Hoster Tully called his banners most joined him some opposed him but the Freys stayed neutral keeping there much needed 4k troops at the Twins, after the rebels victory at the trident here comes late lord Frey. It's obvious Walder didn't up hold his path to Hoster at a crucial life or death moment  he lied to his face and said he was late......... this is feudal times where a lords word is held in high regards and to not answer his liege lords call for arms quite frankly could have your house removed from its lands which technically are Hosters lands that he is leasing in a way to Walder Frey. 

 

Not only did Hoster not strip house Frey of the twins he didn't even take and lands or increase taxes on Walder but why? Hoster had Walder by the balls how could Walder put up a fight aginst Walder and his new friends one of whome is the new king of Westeros?  The answer is he couldn't period so strip him of lands and decrease the greasy shits power. 

[Whitering]

I can only say that tradition tends to rule in Westeros, and the Freys have held their lands for quite a long time. I don't disagree but it's a weak CB.

[devilish]

I doubt that a Lord Paramount has the power to strip lands from their bannermen without the King's consent and that would be difficult to achieve considering that  other families did worse (ie they actually fought against Robert Baratheon) and they still kept their lands. The Freys would argue that they were  contrasted between their loyalty for their king and their loyalty towards their Lord Paramount and they would ask King Robert what they should do if their Lord Paramount would one day decide to raise against the king again. Also don't forget that Lord Frey's son is married to the King's Aunt in law. Her brother happens to be the king's biggest donor to the crown. How would Tywin feel if King Robert sent his sister to Casterly Rock penniless and humiliated?

As said in the past, when you're confronted by a snake you either appease it or you cut its head off. You certainly don't spend years taunting it. Hoster could have easily appeased Lord Walder by marrying one of his daughters (after Edmure's mother died) and make sure to attend all his weddings. That would have kept Lord Frey happy for the rest of his life. Instead he opted in humiliating him at every turn

To conclude Hoster would have never joined the rebellion if Jon Arryn hasn't married his daughter. Why should Lord Frey risk everything out of pure kindness of his heart?

[The Mountain That Flies]

Half the Riverlands seem to have fought for the Targaryens, and of all of them we only really hear about Darry being punished. It takes political effort and/or military force to dole out post-war reprimands, and Hoster probably considered it to not be worth his time to go after the Freys.

This may seem short-sighted and stupid, but look at it this way; had they actually punished the Freys, it could have meant laying siege to the Twins should Walder balk. That would an enourmad pain in the ass and cost even more lives, not to mention could have given people opposed to Robert's reign an early rallying point. Would all this trouble really have been worth it, especially since the Freys never took up arms against the rebels?

And finally, the Freys would have been a whole lot less likely to support Robb in the WOT5K if they had been punished by his grandfather years earlier. Yes that alliance went to hell, but only because Robb himself was an idiot, and it would have never been possible if there was enmity left over from Robert's Rebellion.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Hoster should have remarried, Brynden aka the Blackfish should have married, Edmure should have married, Hoster shouldn't have married both of his daughters outside of his realm, etc etc.  All in all I think Hoster was simply bad at controlling his territory.

[RainGhost]

Hoster should definitely have punished Walder. Not too severely because even the Darrys got to keep some land. But Hoster should have taken maybe one tenth of Walder's lands and given it to more loyal lords e.g. Mallister. This shows the river lords that you'll get rewarded if you answer summons and punished if you don't. The fact that Hoster called him the 'Late' Lord Frey shows that he didn't buy his excuse, so his lack of punishment looks like weakness on his part and Walder clearly interpreted it as such.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

It would have been a stupid move as Robert wanted peace in the Kingdom. To start punishing Houses who stayed neutral (or joined his cause late) is going to make them more likely to side with a Targaryen challenger should one ever come along.

 

When half the kingdom (or more) was already against the rebels you don't start punishing the neutrals, especially the powerful neutrals who may refuse to peacefully give up some of their power as other Lords may get the same idea sparking mass rebellions throughout the realm.

[dariopatke]

Why do you think Freys are bad? They were smart enough to know that this is not their war and they cant get anything from it, just to lose if they side with losing side. Walder knew he couldnt be punished for being neutral because Reach and Dorne should be too and if you punish them (2nd and third wealtiest family) you have civil war and Robert wont allow that. Next, if he went with Targs, he might make a profit, but I doubt he could get RR and LP over Darry, so profits are relativly small or risky and potential loses are huge. Smart one.

In Wot5K he actually sided with Robb, he was very loyal, in aCoK you can see their enthusiasm for Robbs cause, Walders heir died fighting for Robb and of course, Walder gave his 2 grandchildren to WF because HE wanted that. He was loyal more than many other lords. Now we come to the RW, it is certanly not justified and he will be cursed for that, but he is not entirely bad, first Hoster treated him like scum (only partialy justified) and then Robb treated him like worst scum, he is an old man who had enough of Tullys.

Like someone said above, Hoster should have married a Frey girl and pay some sort of respect to Walder, he is not the worst lord he has, he sould demand as a marriage gift 1/10 of his lands to give f.e. to Mallisters and explain him nicely that he needs to build a reputation of just man and if Freys stay loyal they will get more marriages, their lands back and more. They cou arrange later Edmure to marry Roslin and you have a bingo. Also always come to his weddings and show him respect when other lords are there, he would be loyal and his ofspring would be too. He is not that cunning or that smart and maybe not that ambitious as ot seems, he is a man who is pissed for being passed over his entire life and did what he did in pure anger.

[SerWalterPuffsAlot]

Why didnt Hoster punish the Freys?  Most likely because the author of the books didnt even think about it. Past that I highly doubt there is any book related reasons for not punishing them for being late to war.  But who knows in one of the Dunk and Egg tales the Frey in power gets in trouble with Blood Raven but i dont think we actually hear what his punishment ended up being.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Just now, SerWalterPuffsAlot said:

Why didnt Hoster punish the Freys?  Most likely because the author of the books didnt even think about it. Past that I highly doubt there is any book related reasons for not punishing them for being late to war.  But who knows in one of the Dunk and Egg tales the Frey in power gets in trouble with Blood Raven but i dont think we actually hear what his punishment ended up being.

The Frey was a spy working for BR, he was not punished.  In the same book(Mystery Knight) we are introduced to Walder.  Every description of him is of a snot nosed brat.

[Universal Sword Donor]

3 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The Frey was a spy working for BR, he was not punished.  In the same book(Mystery Knight) we are introduced to Walder.  Every description of him is of a snot nosed brat.

The Frey gave no indication of being a spy. Besides Maynard Plumm helped out BR enough

[aryagonnakill#2]

7 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The Frey gave no indication of being a spy. Besides Maynard Plumm helped out BR enough

The Twins were north of Whitewalls, BR approached from the south and the Frey was in his camp, having been comfortably seated in BR's own tent, I think it's clear he wasn't punished.

[purple-eyes]

Why punish them? Being late is better than fighting for targ. 

And many of those targ supporters were not punished that much either. 

 

 

[HexMachina]

27 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The Twins were north of Whitewalls, BR approached from the south and the Frey was in his camp, having been comfortably seated in BR's own tent, I think it's clear he wasn't punished.

Been a while since I read the Mystery Knight, but my recollection is that the Frey realised "oh shit, this isn't going to work out is it?" And dodged over to Bloodraven to save his own skin. So he wasn't initially a spy but took the out option when he could (at least that's how I read it)

[Lord Wraith]

5 hours ago, devilish said:

To conclude Hoster would have never joined the rebellion if Jon Arryn hasn't married his daughter. Why should Lord Frey risk everything out of pure kindness of his heart?

This is the part that everyone seems to forget. Hoster Tully waited till he got his marriages complete. He isn't some saint.

[Lord Wraith]

16 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

Why punish them? Being late is better than fighting for targ. 

And many of those targ supporters were not punished that much either. 

 

 

Tell that to the Darry's, Goodbrother's, and Connington's.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

14 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Been a while since I read the Mystery Knight, but my recollection is that the Frey realised "oh shit, this isn't going to work out is it?" And dodged over to Bloodraven to save his own skin. So he wasn't initially a spy but took the out option when he could (at least that's how I read it)

You could be right, but I think Peake and Daemon were desperate and most of the Lords did not know the full extent of what was going on. They were hoping to gain support that was not necessarily there to start with.

"Just do your part as promised, and let me concern myself with that. Once we have Butterwell's gold and the swords of House Frey, Harrenhal will follow, then the Brackens. Otho knows he cannot hope to stand…"

 

[True.Kitn902]

So basically what most of you are telling me is in Westeros which is suppose to be a feudal society it's not a huge deal to not answer the call for battle from your liege lord ?? That's just illogical and goes completely against what a feudal society stands for. The Tyrells were pardoned for a simple reason they had 80k plus men at arms and could still put up a hell of a fight and not submit to Robert, the Darrys and Conningtons  were at least punished in land reductions and we the reader just don't know for sure if other lords were punished in some way or not.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

12 minutes ago, True.Kitn902 said:

So basically what most of you are telling me is in Westeros which is suppose to be a feudal society it's not a huge deal to not answer the call for battle from your liege lord ??

In this scenario yes as Hoster did just that, ignored his liege lord for much of the war before rebelling. The Tullys actually did something similar during the Dance of the Dragons as well.

Hoster did not join the Rebels till the Battle of the Bells. He stayed neutral during the Battle of Gulltown, Battle of Summerhall, the Battle of Ashemark and possibly others. Should Robert punish Hoster for not joining him sooner?

12 minutes ago, True.Kitn902 said:

 

That's just illogical and goes completely against what a feudal society stands for.

A feudal society is not an absolute monarchy. The Rebels at the time simply did not have enough power to punish not only the Houses that were on the other side but the Houses they feel did not do enough. That is a recipe for disaster.

 

12 minutes ago, True.Kitn902 said:

 

 

The Tyrells were pardoned for a simple reason they had 80k plus men at arms and could still put up a hell of a fight and not submit to Robert,

 Which is also true of the Freys, them being the most powerful vassal House in the Riverlands. While they would certainly get beat it would be hard and other Houses would use this as a chance to rebel.

Jon Arryn and Robert wanted peace, they wanted to send their men home and reform the government. They did not want to prolong a war they only narrowly won. More importantly they only narrowly won because some Houses stayed neutral.

12 minutes ago, True.Kitn902 said:

 

the Darrys and Conningtons  were at least punished in land reductions and we the reader just don't know for sure if other lords were punished in some way or not.

The Darrys helped the Royal Family escape and were major supporters during the war, Connington lead the Stormlands against Robert and almost killed him.

The Freys were simply late. Had Robert not killed Rheagar or Tywin not taken Kings Landing or the Tyrells carried on fighting then Frey army that turned up late on the Trident would be in need.

 

There is a huge difference between being neutral (or late) and fighting for the other side.

[Eden-Mackenzie]

15 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

... The Rebels at the time simply did not have enough power to punish not only the Houses that were on the other side but the Houses they feel did not do enough. That is a recipe for disaster.

...

The Freys were simply late. Had Robert not killed Rheagar or Tywin not taken Kings Landing or the Tyrells carried on fighting then Frey army that turned up late on the Trident would be in need.

There is a huge difference between being neutral (or late) and fighting for the other side.

Hoster was also following Robert's own example - Tywin joined even later than the Freys, and Robert and Jon Arryn did not only not punish his tardiness, but they rewarded him by making his daughter the queen (and allowed the actions of Jaime and Gregor Clegane and friends to go unpunished). 

While this is not completely analogous, as Robert was not Tywin's liege at the time, the Freys do not appear to have received any thanks for joining at all, so one could say their lack of reward is a sort of punishment. And clearly Walder felt the sting of his nickname and the associated ridicule, seeing as he mentions it to Cat during one of their conversations in the series. 

The Freys are not my favorites, not by the longest of long shots, but just because most readers do not care for them does not mean they are more deserving of punishment than others in similar situations. After the Trident, Ned was on his way to King's Landing, not knowing Tywin was there (if I remember correctly), so there was a good possibility the Frey men would have still had some fighting to do.