Jump to content

On the fate of Rolland Storm


James Steller

Recommended Posts

For some reason, I keep coming back to Rolland Storm when I reflect on the series. He's the last surviving male with Caron blood, and it seems such a shame that such an ancient and strong marcher house is extinguished forever. Given Rolland's honourable nature, his incredible military skills, and the trust Stannis put in him despite his having helped smuggle Edric Storm out of Dragonstone, it makes me hope that there's a happy ending in store for him somehow.

So what do you think has become of him? Is he dead? Imprisoned? Still leading the siege of Dragonstone?

And if he isn't dead, do you think he'll have a role to play before the series ends? Will he rejoin with Stannis at some point? Will he take back Nightsong from Philip Foote? Or has his role in the story been completed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We don't know what has happened to him, but neither do we know that he is the last surviving male with Caron blood. The Carons lost Nightsong by Joffrey's decree, but this was because of their treason, not necessarily because all legitimate branches of the house had died out.

Stannis giving Nightsong to Rolland Storm doesn't mean there aren't any other Carons, either. After all, if all the Caron kin left in Stannis' service is brave Rolland Storm, then Stannis would be foolish not to reward by granting the castle to him rather than to some cousin of Bryce's.

The Carons are in pretty much the same situation as the Dondarrions. They appear to be effectively extinct but there is no reason to actually believe that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I imagine if Storm survived he would be imprisoned on Dragonstone. Dragonstone is likely the first place Dany will land should she come to Westeros. He could find a place in her service if he hears it put out that Stannis is dead that would be spread from the Boltons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Fire Eater said:

I imagine if Storm survived he would be imprisoned on Dragonstone. Dragonstone is likely the first place Dany will land should she come to Westeros. He could find a place in her service if he hears it put out that Stannis is dead tgat would be spread from the Boltons.

That is entirely possible, but I always imagined Stannis would sail from White Harbor to Dragonstone with Manderly fleet which is heavily mentioned many times and Dustin soldiers (these two norhern houses were mentioned to be on the "blacks" side during original dance of the dragons, so I would expect Lady Dustin who I am 100% sure is working AGAINST Boltons and Lord Wyman Manderly could lend some force for the Mannis as gratitude for Bolton defeat and installing Rickon as new Lord of Winterfell). His original plan would be to take back his seat of power before planning second sack of King's Landing and finally getting the Iron Throne. Unfortunately for him, near Dragonstone, he will encounter Dany's fleet and her monstrous dragons.

It will be perfectly symbolic as the first time Stannis arrived at Dragonstone during Robert's Rebellion, he almost caught Dany and Viserys per Robert's orders. This time around, it will be Dany coming back to take the seat of her family back from the last family member of the Usurper's line. She will roast him alive in dragonfire as foreshadowed on Stannis' own banner of burning heart of a stag. The last true Targaryen will take back Dragonstone from the last true Baratheon, finally ending any claim to the Throne for the stags (as everyone else alive of that line are Robert's bastards). Remaining Manderly and Dustin forces in awe of her dragons will bend the knee to her and join her army.

Then she will take over Dragonstone and prepare her invasion of Westeros with her Dothraki horde, converted to Red God religion citizens of destroyed Free Cities and former slaves, and many more. 

Which brings me to Rolland Storm. There is not much we know about him except if he was that loyal to Stannis, he would not have helped to smuggle Edric away. Maybe if Edric is in Dany's court by that time, the young Baratheon bastard might vouch for Rolland and ask for his legitimization and lordship of Nightsong in order to sway some political power from Aegon in Stormlands, while Edric is legitimized as Baratheon in order to take away Storm's End away from Aegon's grasp.

But yeah, my main point was about Stannis and Dany and their navy battle near Dragonstone, where Drogon roasts him alive.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Scorpion92 said:

That is entirely possible, but I always imagined Stannis would sail from White Harbor to Dragonstone with Manderly fleet which is heavily mentioned many times and Dustin soldiers (these two norhern houses were mentioned to be on the "blacks" side during original dance of the dragons, so I would expect Lady Dustin who I am 100% sure is working AGAINST Boltons and Lord Wyman Manderly could lend some force for the Mannis as gratitude for Bolton defeat and installing Rickon as new Lord of Winterfell). His original plan would be to take back his seat of power before planning second sack of King's Landing and finally getting the Iron Throne. Unfortunately for him, near Dragonstone, he will encounter Dany's fleet and her monstrous dragons.

It will be perfectly symbolic as the first time Stannis arrived at Dragonstone during Robert's Rebellion, he almost caught Dany and Viserys per Robert's orders. This time around, it will be Dany coming back to take the seat of her family back from the last family member of the Usurper's line. She will roast him alive in dragonfire as foreshadowed on Stannis' own banner of burning heart of a stag. The last true Targaryen will take back Dragonstone from the last true Baratheon, finally ending any claim to the Throne for the stags (as everyone else alive of that line are Robert's bastards). Remaining Manderly and Dustin forces in awe of her dragons will bend the knee to her and join her army.

Then she will take over Dragonstone and prepare her invasion of Westeros with her Dothraki horde, converted to Red God religion citizens of destroyed Free Cities and former slaves, and many more. 

Which brings me to Rolland Storm. There is not much we know about him except if he was that loyal to Stannis, he would not have helped to smuggle Edric away. Maybe if Edric is in Dany's court by that time, the young Baratheon bastard might vouch for Rolland and ask for his legitimization and lordship of Nightsong in order to sway some political power from Aegon in Stormlands, while Edric is legitimized as Baratheon in order to take away Storm's End away from Aegon's grasp.

But yeah, my main point was about Stannis and Dany and their navy battle near Dragonstone, where Drogon roasts him alive.

 

I don't think Manderly's fleet will be sent to Dragonstone. I think Edric Storm will find his way into Dany's court if she stops in Lys. I think Tyrion would avise Dany to legitimize Edric as her puppet Lord of SE. He would owe SE to her, and if she has any doubts, Tyrion could always point out "How many dragons does he have?" 

However, I think he would be the Addam of Hull parallel in the second Dance, and be accused of potential treason only to lead a battle that helps Dany at the cost of his life to prove his loyalty. 

I don't think Stannis, and Dany will meet on Dragonstone, but at the Trident. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's hard for me to say this, especially because my real last name is Caron - and how fucking cool is it that I can cheer on a house with my own name - but part of what we're seeing in this story is both the crippling of the nobility and their eventual collective loss of power. I feel that certain houses - be it by royal decree or by bloodlines running dry, or what have you - will die out/lose their claims.

Now, that being said, I hope I'm wrong in the case of House Caron. I would love to see Rolland Storm re-emerge in any fashion, really. Lord Varys' points are also something I keep in my mind, regarding the status of any house we seem to be losing track of. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if this is where they end in history.

And bully to that, I declare.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Fire Eater said:

I don't think Manderly's fleet will be sent to Dragonstone. I think Edric Storm will find his way into Dany's court if she stops in Lys. I think Tyrion would avise Dany to legitimize Edric as her puppet Lord of SE. He would owe SE to her, and if she has any doubts, Tyrion could always point out "How many dragons does he have?" 

However, I think he would be the Addam of Hull parallel in the second Dance, and be accused of potential treason only to lead a battle that helps Dany at the cost of his life to prove his loyalty. 

I don't think Stannis, and Dany will meet on Dragonstone, but at the Trident. 

I have read that theory of yours and I was a major supporter. But I gotta ask you: if Stannis marches back south after he deals with Boltons, do you think northern army would risk marching through the Neck to the Twins, which is still controlled by hateful Frey family. They would never allow Stannis and his northern allies pass as they know what kind of punishment Stannis will bring them and how northerners hate their guts after Red Wedding.

Sailing is much faster and effective way of moving Stannis' troops, especially given the fact that Martin mentioned Manderly fleet hidden up the Knife and ready to deploy. Add to the fact that Manderly heavy cavalry is the strongest in the North, it is perfect opportunity for Stannis to get his army right there and transport it via ships. Plus, as I already mentioned, I expect Lady Dustin to lend some of her troops to King Stannis as well because even though she is written as Bolton supporter, there are some clues Martin left behind that she is a Stark supporter (that crypt scene with Theon is a huge proof).

Anyways, my argument is that Stannis has the perfect opportunity to SAIL to King's Landing rather than MARCH. Marching would only create more problems for him supply wise because winter is truly coming, plus it is much faster way of transportation. White Harbor is not THAT far away from King's Landing by sailing.

I wholeheartedly agree with your predictions regarding Edric Storm though. I think he will be a puppet Lord of Storm's End, just like Tyrek Lannister will be a puppet Lord of Casterly Rock for Varys and Aegon. Your theory of Jon Connington slaying Edric down during the battle fearing another Rhaegar-Robert flashback is a valid guess as well.

However, I am leaving the possibility of some Golden Company ships carrying elephants being carried off by Aurane Waters and his huge dromonds. Maybe Edric is on one of these ships? I know how the fans use the argument of Jon Connington vowing to end the line of Usurper as the proof of Edric and Aegon never being on the same side, but nevertheless Aegon and Golden Company have already been to Lys and Varys is originally from there, I would guess he will not leave such an interesting young man with Baratheon blood and noble upbringing without some careful attention of his "little birds". But I digress.

Especially since Aegon has taken Storm's End just now and his future seems to be linked to Oldtown, he needs to leave some puppet lord of Storm's End behind.

But yeah, to summarize, my main argument is that Stannis will not take his northern host through Riverlands, as it is not practical and slower than taking his army by the sea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he's dead, unfortunately. Hopefully he sent some obsidian up north before Loras attacked so the stuff isn't sitting in limbo for ages.

1 hour ago, Scorpion92 said:

His original plan would be to take back his seat of power before planning second sack of King's Landing and finally getting the Iron Throne. Unfortunately for him, near Dragonstone, he will encounter Dany's fleet and her monstrous dragons.

His plan is to defend the Wall. He gives no suggestion that he intends to march south again until he's dealt with the Others, and doing so would be completely counter to his development throughout ASOS and the conclusion he reaches at the end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Scorpion92 said:

I have read that theory of yours and I was a major supporter. But I gotta ask you: if Stannis marches back south after he deals with Boltons, do you think northern army would risk marching through the Neck to the Twins, which is still controlled by hateful Frey family. They would never allow Stannis and his northern allies pass as they know what kind of punishment Stannis will bring them and how northerners hate their guts after Red Wedding.

Sailing is much faster and effective way of moving Stannis' troops, especially given the fact that Martin mentioned Manderly fleet hidden up the Knife and ready to deploy. Add to the fact that Manderly heavy cavalry is the strongest in the North, it is perfect opportunity for Stannis to get his army right there and transport it via ships. Plus, as I already mentioned, I expect Lady Dustin to lend some of her troops to King Stannis as well because even though she is written as Bolton supporter, there are some clues Martin left behind that she is a Stark supporter (that crypt scene with Theon is a huge proof).

Anyways, my argument is that Stannis has the perfect opportunity to SAIL to King's Landing rather than MARCH. Marching would only create more problems for him supply wise because winter is truly coming, plus it is much faster way of transportation. White Harbor is not THAT far away from King's Landing by sailing.

I wholeheartedly agree with your predictions regarding Edric Storm though. I think he will be a puppet Lord of Storm's End, just like Tyrek Lannister will be a puppet Lord of Casterly Rock for Varys and Aegon. Your theory of Jon Connington slaying Edric down during the battle fearing another Rhaegar-Robert flashback is a valid guess as well.

However, I am leaving the possibility of some Golden Company ships carrying elephants being carried off by Aurane Waters and his huge dromonds. Maybe Edric is on one of these ships? I know how the fans use the argument of Jon Connington vowing to end the line of Usurper as the proof of Edric and Aegon never being on the same side, but nevertheless Aegon and Golden Company have already been to Lys and Varys is originally from there, I would guess he will not leave such an interesting young man with Baratheon blood and noble upbringing without some careful attention of his "little birds". But I digress.

Especially since Aegon has taken Storm's End just now and his future seems to be linked to Oldtown, he needs to leave some puppet lord of Storm's End behind.

But yeah, to summarize, my main argument is that Stannis will not take his northern host through Riverlands, as it is not practical and slower than taking his army by the sea.

I don't know if ~50 warships is enough to carry the Northern army. Besides, Stannis will need more than Northmen to take KL with the power of the HG behind Tommen. I think he would want to gather former Robb Stark supporters in the riverlands on his way to KL.

I think regarding the Stormlands, Aegon would simply just name Connington the liege lord. I don't think he would want another Baratheon in SE or KL. Hell, Stannis and Shireen are all that's left of House Baratheon. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, The Drunkard said:

I think he's dead, unfortunately. Hopefully he sent some obsidian up north before Loras attacked so the stuff isn't sitting in limbo for ages.

His plan is to defend the Wall. He gives no suggestion that he intends to march south again until he's dealt with the Others, and doing so would be completely counter to his development throughout ASOS and the conclusion he reaches at the end.

He already defended the Wall from the wildlings. Now he is liberating the North from Bolton rule. I do not think he is coming back to the Wall to fight the White Walkers, because by that time Queensmen, Selyse and Shireen are all going to be dead, which will be blamed on Patchface and his madness (I think Bloodraven or Bran will skinchange into Patchface during the night so he slaughters sleeping Queensmen which will allow Melisandre no challenge to burn Shireen in order to resurect Jon Snow). Plus, as you said, if White Walkers manifest themselves in any kind of fashion, he would need entire Westerosi army to bring their asses to the Wall, and he cannot command it unless he is King on the Iron Throne.

1 minute ago, Fire Eater said:

I don't know if ~50 warships is enough to carry the Northern army. Besides, Stannis will need more than Northmen to take KL with the power of the HG behind Tommen. I think he would want to gather former Robb Stark supporters in the riverlands on his way to KL.

I think regarding the Stormlands, Aegon would simply just name Connington the liege lord. I don't think he would want another Baratheon in SE or KL. Hell, Stannis and Shireen are all that's left of House Baratheon. 

Again, there is a challenge of Twins, they are not gonna cross as long as Freys are there. Plus, I see no reason riverlanders supporting Robb Stark will switch to Stannis just because he got rid of Boltons in the North. Under Stannis, there is no King in the North, and riverlanders bent the knee to Stark king, not Baratheon king. Riverlanders' main loyalties seem to lay between Starks and Targaryens.

Good point about Stormlands and Jon Connington. The only problem I could imagine is that Jon Connington will not stay at Storm's End, he will follow Aegon to the Reach. Who is gonna be ruling Storm's End in their name?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Scorpion92 said:

He already defended the Wall from the wildlings. Now he is liberating the North from Bolton rule. I do not think he is coming back to the Wall to fight the White Walkers, because by that time Queensmen, Selyse and Shireen are all going to be dead, which will be blamed on Patchface and his madness (I think Bloodraven or Bran will skinchange into Patchface during the night so he slaughters sleeping Queensmen which will allow Melisandre no challenge to burn Shireen in order to resurect Jon Snow). Plus, as you said, if White Walkers manifest themselves in any kind of fashion, he would need entire Westerosi army to bring their asses to the Wall, and he cannot command it unless he is King on the Iron Throne.

Random theories aside - the wildlings are not the main reason he went north. The Others are "the foe that [he] was born to fight", and everything he's planned since defeating Mance has been centered on that. He's wanted the North and the wildlings united behind him, all the castles rebuilt and garrisoned within a year, nightfires burning before their gates, their defenders armed with obsidian, and him commanding from his new seat at the Nightfort. With the North behind him and the immense wealth of the Iron Bank at his disposal, he'll be able to enact most of these plans. 

He doesn't have years and years to fight campaigns in the south getting everyone to recognize him as king before he tries to save the realm, which is the point of his "cart before the horse" speech. He wants to do his duty and save the realm before he takes his rights and gains the throne. For him to finish with the Boltons and then just abandon the North to once again attack King's Landing would not make sense. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, The Drunkard said:

I think he's dead, unfortunately. Hopefully he sent some obsidian up north before Loras attacked so the stuff isn't sitting in limbo for ages.

His plan is to defend the Wall. He gives no suggestion that he intends to march south again until he's dealt with the Others, and doing so would be completely counter to his development throughout ASOS and the conclusion he reaches at the end.

I agree, I had no feelings at all that Stannis intended to leave the North until the others had been dealt with

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Loras never sailed to Dragonstone, he sailed straight to Oldtown. The report Aurane gave Cersei was a lie. 

From AFFC:

“Your Grace,” he said with a broad smile, “Dragonstone is yours.” “How splendid.” She took his hands and kissed him on the cheeks. “I know Tommen will be pleased as well. This will mean that we can release Lord Redwyne’s fleet, and drive the ironmen from the Shields.” The news from the Reach seemed to grow more dire with every raven. The ironmen had not been content with their new rocks, it seemed. They were raiding up the Mander in strength, and had gone so far as to attack the Arbor and the smaller islands that surrounded it. The Redwynes had kept no more than a dozen warships in their home waters, and all those had been overwhelmed, taken, or sunk. And now there were reports that this madman who called himself Euron Crow’s Eye was even sending longships up Whispering Sound toward Oldtown. “Lord Paxter was taking on provisions for the voyage home when Sweet Cersei raised sail,” Lord Waters reported. “I would imagine that by now his main fleet has put to sea.” “Let us hope they enjoy a swift voyage, and better weather than today.” The queen drew Waters down into the window seat beside her. “Do we have Ser Loras to thank for this triumph?” His smile vanished. “Some will say so, Your Grace.” “Some?” She gave him a quizzical look. “Not you?” “I never saw a braver knight,” Waters said, “but he turned what could have been a bloodless victory into a slaughter. A thousand men are dead, or near enough to make no matter. Most of them our own. And not just common men, Your Grace, but knights and young lords, the best and the bravest.” “And Ser Loras himself?” “He will make a thousand and one. They carried him inside the castle after the battle, but his wounds are grievous. He has lost so much blood that the maesters will not even leech him.” “Oh, how sad. 

 

The bold part is what makes this seems suspicious. Especially when he says "And not just common men, Your Grace, but knights and young lords, the best and the bravest."

I think Loras had all the high born Lannister loyalists killed and took the rest of the men to Oldtown, and all of this was of course coordinated with Aurane and Lord Redwyne.

There are other threads out there suggesting that this is the case, with more depth and detail than what I just wrote obviously. It's worth checking out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Duckfield said:

I think Loras never sailed to Dragonstone, he sailed straight to Oldtown. The report Aurane gave Cersei was a lie. 

That is pretty much debunked since ADwD. Mace makes it perfectly clear that Loras has taken and still is on Dragonstone. Mace is now Hand of the King, Cersei is confined to her quarters, and Kevan needs the Tyrells. Mace has no reason to continue lying to Kevan even if Loras and Margaery tricked Cersei into believing something else.

My guess is that Rolland Storm is most likely dead. Loras stormed the castle, and his people wouldn't have been especially merciful, one assumes, after Loras was during the attack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

That is pretty much debunked since ADwD. Mace makes it perfectly clear that Loras has taken and still is on Dragonstone. Mace is now Hand of the King, Cersei is confined to her quarters, and Kevan needs the Tyrells. Mace has no reason to continue lying to Kevan even if Loras and Margaery tricked Cersei into believing something else.

My guess is that Rolland Storm is most likely dead. Loras stormed the castle, and his people wouldn't have been especially merciful, one assumes, after Loras was during the attack.

The garrison of Dragonstone hadn't done anything horrible enough that would lead to the garrison getting slaughtered. Killing everyone would be costly, and Storm could have yielded when he saw the battle was lost. Loras survived the attack, and there would have been no death to enrage them. 

Although, I expect Loras to be permanently scarred from the boiling oil, and to have lost his physical beauty. 

8 hours ago, Scorpion92 said:

Again, there is a challenge of Twins, they are not gonna cross as long as Freys are there. Plus, I see no reason riverlanders supporting Robb Stark will switch to Stannis just because he got rid of Boltons in the North. Under Stannis, there is no King in the North, and riverlanders bent the knee to Stark king, not Baratheon king. Riverlanders' main loyalties seem to lay between Starks and Targaryens.

Good point about Stormlands and Jon Connington. The only problem I could imagine is that Jon Connington will not stay at Storm's End, he will follow Aegon to the Reach. Who is gonna be ruling Storm's End in their name?

The kingsroad doesn't go through the Twins. I think that would be Stannis's plan before Dany arrives, and she likely gets most of the riverlands. 

Connington would likely name one of the GC commanders in charge of the garrison. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Duckfield said:

(Snip) Lord Waters reported. “I would imagine that by now his main fleet has put to sea.” “Let us hope they enjoy a swift voyage, and better weather than today.” The queen drew Waters down into the window seat beside her. “Do we have Ser Loras to thank for this triumph?” His smile vanished. “Some will say so, Your Grace.” “Some?” She gave him a quizzical look. “Not you?” “I never saw a braver knight,” Waters said, “but he turned what could have been a bloodless victory into a slaughter. A thousand men are dead, or near enough to make no matter. Most of them our own. And not just common men, Your Grace, but knights and young lords, the best and the bravest.” “And Ser Loras himself?” “He will make a thousand and one. They carried him inside the castle after the battle, but his wounds are grievous. He has lost so much blood that the maesters will not even leech him.” “Oh, how sad. 

 

The bold part is what makes this seems suspicious. Especially when he says "And not just common men, Your Grace, but knights and young lords, the best and the bravest."

I think Loras had all the high born Lannister loyalists killed and took the rest of the men to Oldtown, and all of this was of course coordinated with Aurane and Lord Redwyne.

There are other threads out there suggesting that this is the case, with more depth and detail than what I just wrote obviously. It's worth checking out.

I think Loras did go to Dragonstone, but I doubt the veracity of Aurane's report much beyond that, especially given his own actions pretty soon thereafter. Loras may be grievously injured, he may be perfectly fine, and I think Rolland's fate is tied to Loras's - if Loras is injured to the extent Aurane reported, Rolland likely died in the attack, but if Loras is uninjured, it is likely because he reached some deal with Rolland to "take" Dragonstone peacefully, which means Rolland lives.

The idea that Loras had faithful Lannister men executed in order to create casualties for his attack certainly seems plausible. Aurane reported Loras offered single combat to Rolland, which was turned down, and this could easily be a half-truth: single combat was a no-go and they negotiated instead. The one potential issue in a Loras/Rolland alliance is Rolland's joining Team Stannis; Rolland had been on Renly's side, and his half-brother was a member of the Rainbow Guard with Loras, and they both joined Stannis after Renly's assassination rather than going with the Tyrells. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a pet theory that he came to a deal with Loras. A bloodless victory over Dragonstone for a ship to carry the garrison and as much obsidian as possible to the Wall. Rolland knew that the castle would fall, he knew that Stannis needed obsidian, and Loras only cares to finish things ASAP, he cares little if these guys sail to join Stannis if it means he get's the go ahead to save his home.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Nyrhex said:

I have a pet theory that he came to a deal with Loras. A bloodless victory over Dragonstone for a ship to carry the garrison and as much obsidian as possible to the Wall. Rolland knew that the castle would fall, he knew that Stannis needed obsidian, and Loras only cares to finish things ASAP, he cares little if these guys sail to join Stannis if it means he get's the go ahead to save his home.

Why would there be a need to lie about so many dead men and Loras being injured, then? Just say the garrison surrendered, they were all executed, Dragonstone is yours, that's that. Sure, Cersei might want to see some heads, but if she was fooled by a tarred mock-up of Davos Seaworth's head then she likely won't question it if Loras brings back some other guy's head and claims Rolland's head rotted on the way back to King's Landing. And then they're either lying to Mace Tyrell as well, or else he's suddenly able to be a good liar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, King Floki of the Ironborn said:

Why would there be a need to lie about so many dead men and Loras being injured, then? Just say the garrison surrendered, they were all executed, Dragonstone is yours, that's that. Sure, Cersei might want to see some heads, but if she was fooled by a tarred mock-up of Davos Seaworth's head then she likely won't question it if Loras brings back some other guy's head and claims Rolland's head rotted on the way back to King's Landing. And then they're either lying to Mace Tyrell as well, or else he's suddenly able to be a good liar.

Mace could be playing a game similar to Wyman Manderly - Lord Oaf and Lord Too-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse. If you're commonly thought to be dimwitted, no one will suspect you're plotting against them.

As far as falsifying casualties goes, they may have been hoping if Cersei thinks everyone has been slaughtered, she would be less likely to ask for proof, which was the case - Cersei bought Aurane's entire story without batting an eye. Davos was just one man, his death was via execution, not in battle, so they had to create proof, and Wyman took careful preparations to make it appear as though it truly was Davos. It is like the idea of one death is a tragedy, thousands of deaths is a statistic - in a situation such as the one described by Aurane, identifying individual bodies in the aftermath of such a bloody battle would be nearly impossible. Reporting heavy losses on their own side also means they will not have to account for all the men who left with them, whether these men left on another mission which had not been authorized by the crown, or whether these men were loyal Lannister men whose presence would have impeded Loras's actions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...