Cas Stark Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 26 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said: Who said anything about her not getting back to Westeros? LOL. Okay let me be more clear: Arya will not die and live a second life in her wolf. GRRM is a better writer than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Gareth Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 9 hours ago, Cas Stark said: LOL. Okay let me be more clear: Arya will not die and live a second life in her wolf. GRRM is a better writer than that. In 2001 I'd have agreed with you. From 2011 onwards? I'm not as confident. And after the latest sample chapters I am definitely not confident! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I agree with the consensus so far: no spoilers from this episode at all. GrrM has apparently confirmed (albeit somewhat indirectly) that Coldhands is not Benjen. Also, of course, Coldhands has a different role in the novels than Benjen did in the episode; we don't know if Bran will actually leave the cave in the books, or need rescuing if he leaves. Sam might go to Horn Hill and meet his father in Winds, but I see no reason to think the way it went down in the show sheds any light on what will happen in such a scene in the books. King's Landing has totally jumped the shark; as has been said, because Aegon and Arianne have been cut they have no story from the books for King's Landing, and so they are just dragging out the confrontation between the High Sparrow and the Lannister/Tyrells. It is boring, partially nonsensical and I doubt very much it spoils anything from winds. I have been rereading Arya's chapters in Dance, and I'm unsure whether they are going down the same route as GrrM or not. The basic conflict/dilemma of Arya seems tolerably well preserved in the show: Arya wants to stay in the faceless men but also clings to her Stark identity. So perhaps Arya's storyline reveals something about her plotline in the books but it is hard to be sure. A lot of the mystery about the faceless men, and the hints about the kind of magic they practice is missing, and this could be important in the books. The Dany stuff was pretty brief, but her story seems like it is roughly on course. She'll rally the Dothraki and then link up with Euron/Vic and the rest of her armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 10 hours ago, Ser Gareth said: In 2001 I'd have agreed with you. From 2011 onwards? I'm not as confident. And after the latest sample chapters I am definitely not confident! Whatever endgame GRRM has in mind for Arya is the same one he created back when he wrote book 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Chaircat Meow said: I agree with the consensus so far: no spoilers from this episode at all. GrrM has apparently confirmed (albeit somewhat indirectly) that Coldhands is not Benjen. Also, of course, Coldhands has a different role in the novels than Benjen did in the episode; we don't know if Bran will actually leave the cave in the books, or need rescuing if he leaves. Sam might go to Horn Hill and meet his father in Winds, but I see no reason to think the way it went down in the show sheds any light on what will happen in such a scene in the books. King's Landing has totally jumped the shark; as has been said, because Aegon and Arianne have been cut they have no story from the books for King's Landing, and so they are just dragging out the confrontation between the High Sparrow and the Lannister/Tyrells. It is boring, partially nonsensical and I doubt very much it spoils anything from winds. I have been rereading Arya's chapters in Dance, and I'm unsure whether they are going down the same route as GrrM or not. The basic conflict/dilemma of Arya seems tolerably well preserved in the show: Arya wants to stay in the faceless men but also clings to her Stark identity. So perhaps Arya's storyline reveals something about her plotline in the books but it is hard to be sure. A lot of the mystery about the faceless men, and the hints about the kind of magic they practice is missing, and this could be important in the books. The Dany stuff was pretty brief, but her story seems like it is roughly on course. She'll rally the Dothraki and then link up with Euron/Vic and the rest of her armies. Book Arya has also carried out a few official assassinations for the Faceless Men as well Show Arya hasn't and won't Also I doubt that Sam meets up with Randyll. Randyll's too busy on King's Landing holding down the fort and confronting Aegon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 21 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: Book Arya has also carried out a few official assassinations for the Faceless Men as well Show Arya hasn't and won't Also I doubt that Sam meets up with Randyll. Randyll's too busy on King's Landing holding down the fort and confronting Aegon Book Arya has carried out exactly one assassination (Insurance Man at the end of ADWD). (WOW Spoiler) Some people think she was on a mission in "Mercy". I'm not one of them. If the Ironborn seriously threaten the Reach or even Oldtown, Tarly could go there. He is possibly the best military commander the Lannisters have right now. However, any reunion with Sam will definitely not go down as it did on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Gareth Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 33 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: Whatever endgame GRRM has in mind for Arya is the same one he created back when he wrote book 1 I was actually referring to the better writer comment. But it also applies to the first comment too really as I am convinced that GRRM will change a lot of storylines now to ensure the books are completely different. Including the ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said: I was actually referring to the better writer comment. But it also applies to the first comment too really as I am convinced that GRRM will change a lot of storylines now to ensure the books are completely different. Including the ending. I can't see that he'll have to. The storylines look certain to be very different anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said: I was actually referring to the better writer comment. But it also applies to the first comment too really as I am convinced that GRRM will change a lot of storylines now to ensure the books are completely different. Including the ending. I very much doubt it. He's spent too many years carefully seeding the books with hints he wants readers to find. He's not going to dead-end those just to be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 11 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said: I was actually referring to the better writer comment. But it also applies to the first comment too really as I am convinced that GRRM will change a lot of storylines now to ensure the books are completely different. Including the ending. He's already gone on record saying that he's not doing that. It seems more like the show is changing things instead. As D & D said, the show won't spoil the books aside from a few key elements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 19 minutes ago, Nevets said: Book Arya has carried out exactly one assassination (Insurance Man at the end of ADWD). (WOW Spoiler) Hide contents Some people think she was on a mission in "Mercy". I'm not one of them. If the Ironborn seriously threaten the Reach or even Oldtown, Tarly could go there. He is possibly the best military commander the Lannisters have right now. However, any reunion with Sam will definitely not go down as it did on the show. It's unlikely Randyll would go to the Readh. He'll be too busy battling Aegon. Rather, I think it will be Garlan and Willas battling it out with Euron in the Reach hence why GRRM keeps talking about how important these two will be -------- Book Arya was most definitely on a mission in Mercy. She poisons Lady Stork(the show confirmed it) and then kills Raff afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 8 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: It's unlikely Randyll would go to the Readh. He'll be too busy battling Aegon. Rather, I think it will be Garlan and Willas battling it out with Euron in the Reach hence why GRRM keeps talking about how important these two will be -------- Book Arya was most definitely on a mission in Mercy. She poisons Lady Stork(the show confirmed it) and then kills Raff afterwards It depends on how long Aegon lasts. Given his absence in the show. I don't give him much of a chance to do much of consequence. I do agree that Garlan and Willas will play an important role. The show might have suggested her poisoning Lady Stork, but it confirmed nothing. There is nothing in the text itself to indicate it, and absent the scene in the show, no reason to even consider it. The suggested mission I have seen was for Raff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 10 minutes ago, Nevets said: It depends on how long Aegon lasts. Given his absence in the show. I don't give him much of a chance to do much of consequence. I do agree that Garlan and Willas will play an important role. The show might have suggested her poisoning Lady Stork, but it confirmed nothing. There is nothing in the text itself to indicate it, and absent the scene in the show, no reason to even consider it. The suggested mission I have seen was for Raff. Aegon's going to last long enough to fight Daenerys. GRRM has already said that there will be a second Dance of Dragons Izembaro was calling for her again. Now he could not find his boar spear. Mercy found it for him, helped Big Brusco don his boar suit, checked the trick daggers just to make certain no one had replaced one with a real blade (someone had done that at the Dome once, and a mummer had died), and poured Lady Stork the little nip of wine she liked to have before each play. When all the cries of "Mercy, Mercy, Mercy" finally died away, she stole a moment for a quick peek out into the house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Nevets said: It depends on how long Aegon lasts. Given his absence in the show. I don't give him much of a chance to do much of consequence. They have given Aegon role to Tommen. We still have to see how the story unfolds for show Tommen and the High Sparow. But I expect they will bring a substantial peace and order restoration to Westeros. Meaning Aegon will succeed as well. It will be all the worse for Daenerys and her freaks popularity. But what a Dothraki care if he is loved? Or Euron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandwipes Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: Book Arya was most definitely on a mission in Mercy. She poisons Lady Stork(the show confirmed it) and then kills Raff afterwards It seems more likely now that the show did their version, but confirmed is way too strong. The impression I got was that Izembaro was a paid associate of the FM, not a client, and that Arya was there to learn mummery as a skill. It could be that the Lady Crane kill on the show (or lack thereof) came from a plot need to have Arya break with the FM. And since they've already adapted her Raff kill twice alreadt in different ways, it would be kind of silly to have another person from her list just randomly show up in front of her. Like Brienne randomly bumping into all three people she's been looking for silly. But I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandwipes Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said: They have given Aegon role to Tommen. We still have to see how the story unfolds for show Tommen and the High Sparow. But I expect they will bring a substantial peace and order restoration to Westeros. Meaning Aegon will succeed as well. It will be all the worse for Daenerys and her freaks popularity. But what a Dothraki care if he is loved? Or Euron? Yeah, I think Aegon/Arianne are being set up as a Goldenboy/girl royal couple. Like a celebrity royal match. Young, beautiful, charismatic, energetic, optimistic, and adored well beyond their accomplishments. And I don't mean that as a knock on them. They will have all the qualities a war weary county will want with none of the baggage. A perfect tragedy in the making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandwipes Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 On 5/31/2016 at 5:34 PM, Nevets said: I was actually thinking mostly of season 4, in which she kills several people with minimal (or no) provocation. Like Rorge. "Why isn't he on your list?" "I didn't know his name". As opposed to the fact that he didn't do anything to get put on it in the first place! (If she puts everyone who talks shit to her on it, the list will never end.) I didn't notice that. Well, he did threaten to rape a small child with a stick; but you're right, I think the only violent act Rorge and Biter commit on the show is trying to collect a bounty on a wanted criminal. On 5/31/2016 at 5:34 PM, Nevets said: I have to admit being bothered by the deaths of Dareon and Raff. She is not on a good trajectory at this point in the story, but I don't see her position as hopeless. One of the things that drives me crazy about the show is the cavalier way that violence is depicted. Arya kills like twice as many people (probably around the same number of people, but more casually) in the show than the books and yet she's still depicted as a lovable little tomboy scamp rather than a traumatized child to whom violence is becoming a game. The books have extraordinary levels of violence that the show has never tried to approach, but the violence has much more weight to it. Oftentimes, the show amps up the action without having anything to say about the violence. Edited to remove exaggeration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowed Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Well I would take two spoiler from Winds on this latest episode: 1) the Arya mercy chapter (this has been released I know but I have not read it) 2) Margery and the faith, she avoids a trial by combat and Tommen also aligns himself to the faith. It may not happen exactly like the show but I am sure this is from the next book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 1 hour ago, JonSnowed said: Well I would take two spoiler from Winds on this latest episode: 1) the Arya mercy chapter (this has been released I know but I have not read it) 2) Margery and the faith, she avoids a trial by combat and Tommen also aligns himself to the faith. It may not happen exactly like the show but I am sure this is from the next book. That's not what happens in the books though. Marge isn't in danger of a walk of shame nor is she proceeding towards a trial by combat. She's having a regular trial by the faith where 7 different judges representing the 7 will preside over I think there a lot of indications in the books that Marge is going to get Anne Boleyn'd the show won't do it though because Show Marge is taking Arianne's role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueNightzx Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 9 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: That's not what happens in the books though. Marge isn't in danger of a walk of shame nor is she proceeding towards a trial by combat. She's having a regular trial by the faith where 7 different judges representing the 7 will preside over I think there a lot of indications in the books that Marge is going to get Anne Boleyn'd the show won't do it though because Show Marge is taking Arianne's role what would be incredible ironic, since natalie dormer played Anne Boleyn in the tudors series she would become like sean bean, but queen version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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