[Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Reprecussions - Season 6 Edition

[rosehustle1]

42 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

So you think Arya will take on LSH's plot? If that means killing Freys I hope so! The Briene/Pod plot will be linked to the RiverRun battle.

I could see them doing this with her. But something tells me they will pull LSH out of their asses for the finale. They need to have something trend on twitter that night. I mean, that's really all they care about now, reaction videos and mindless media puff pieces.

Personally,  I don't think LSH has any significance on a show in which revenge is always framed as a positive and is the single motivating factor for every character. She made sense at the end of season 4, not now, almost three years after the RR. It's just another 'shocking moment' at this point. Context is broken.

[SerMixalot]

15 minutes ago, Neds Secret said:

Well done! That really was excellent mate!

 

Thanks, I wish it could be more eloquent, to more accurately express my feelings but that is the failed writer in me's fault

[SerProle]

9 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

Thanks, I wish it could be more eloquent, to more accurately express my feelings but that is the failed writer in me's fault

It was great. And surprising. In a good way! Something I'd hope to read on a blog, where longer essays are more to be expected. Not a forum where its fun to be snarky and vent a little (which of course is also great lol). Thank you for posting it. I can't be the only person who has yearned for more people to say these things.

Something I really hoped to find, but have not yet found, is an essay by someone who knows the books that can counter this idea that the cruelty of Yara towards Theon is somehow 'true' to the world of the books.

We know the show only celebrates nihilism and sociopathic violence, but is that true in the books? Are there no examples of empathy? Models for how the writers could have chosen to write this invented version of the character of Theon's sister? Is the apologist argument that 'sensitivity' is our modern way, an anachronism that doesn't belong in the books or the show, valid? Really? Are there no book lovers out there to counter it? Are there no empathic characters, who in the books demonstrate other ways of dealing with the suffering of those around them? Or their own? 

[Neds Secret]

10 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

Thanks, I wish it could be more eloquent, to more accurately express my feelings but that is the failed writer in me's fault

It was eloquent enough to convince me that a professional writer had penned it!

[Low Sparrow]

1 hour ago, SerMixalot said:

I think what I hate most about Game of Thrones is the embracing of nihilism.  The embrace goes far beyond the show itself.  GoT is actually nothing more than a zeitgeist of our culture.  It is the death of idealism transcended to the visual art form. 

Bravo!

[SerMixalot]

Aw shucks!

[kissdbyfire]

It was an awesome post, @Ser Mixalot.

The tag is tagging a different ser mixalot for some reason!

[a black swan]

53 minutes ago, rosehustle1 said:

I could see them doing this with her. But something tells me they will pull LSH out of their asses for the finale. They need to have something trend on twitter that night. I mean, that's really all they care about now, reaction videos and mindless media puff pieces.

Personally,  I don't think LSH has any significance on a show in which revenge is always framed as a positive and is the single motivating factor for every character. She made sense at the end of season 4, not now, almost three years after the RR. It's just another 'shocking moment' at this point. Context is broken.

Some people think the Wall is coming down.  Plus the finale is called Winds of Winter. Trend-worthy  Not to mention lots of major character deaths...etc. 

[SerMixalot]

9 minutes ago, SerProle said:

It was great. And surprising. In a good way! Something I'd hope to read on a blog, where longer essays are more to be expected. Not a forum where its fun to be snarky and vent a little (which of course is also great lol). Thank you for posting it. I can't be the only person who has yearned for more people to say these things.

Something I really hoped to find, but have not yet found, is an essay by someone who knows the books that can counter this idea that the cruelty of Yara towards Theon is somehow 'true' to the world of the books.

We know the show only celebrates nihilism and sociopathic violence, but is that true in the books? Are there no examples of empathy? Models for how the writers could have chosen to write this invented version of the character of Theon's sister? Is the apologist argument that 'sensitivity' is our modern way, an anachronism that doesn't belong in the books or the show, valid? Really? Are there no book lovers out there to counter it? Are there no empathic characters, who in the books demonstrate other ways of dealing with the suffering of those around them? Or their own? 

There are ALOT of examples from the books about empathy being expressed:

Ellaria: “A start?” said Ellaria Sand, incredulous. “Gods forbid. I would it were a finish. Tywin Lannister is dead. So are Robert Baratheon, Amory Lorch, and now Gregor Clegane, all those who had a hand in murdering Elia and her children. Even Joffrey, who was not yet born when Elia died. I saw the boy perish with mine own eyes, clawing at his throat as he tried to draw a breath. Who else is to kill? Do Myrcella and Tommen need to die so the shades of Rhaenys and Aegon can be at rest? Where does it end?”

This after losing her lover Oberyn

Catelyn: “Why not a peace?” Catelyn asked.
The lords looked at her, but it was Robb’s eyes she felt, his and his alone. “My lady, they murdered my lord father, your husband,” he said grimly. […] “Perhaps I do not understand tactics and strategy… but I understand futility. We went to war when Lannister armies were ravaging the riverlands, and Ned was a prisoner, falsely accused of treason. We fought to defend ourselves, and to win my lord’s freedom. “Well, the one is done, and the other forever beyond our reach. I will mourn for Ned until the end of my days, but I must think of the living. I want my daughters back, and the queen holds them still. If I must trade our four Lannisters for their two Starks, I will call that a bargain and thank the gods. I want you safe, Robb, ruling at Winterfell from your father’s seat. I want you to live your life, to kiss a girl and wed a woman and father a son. I want to write an end to this. I want to go home, my lords, and weep for my husband.”

Ser Meribald's Broken Man Speech

Sansa praying in the Sept before the Battle of the Blackwater for Sandor's anger to be calmed-and it works

The North coming together in MEMORY of Lord Eddard Stark

Dany's attitude towards slavery comes from empathy and her governance in Mereen came from a desire to do the most good for all of her people.

Jon's training at Castle Black-he learned to be considerate of his "classmates" lack of skills-you know a good leader who has consideration for this compatriots

Melisandra keeps Ser Davos' son at the wall with her to keep him safe solely as an act of kindness to Ser Davos

Everything about Sam Tarly

Sansa saving Ser Dontas life from Joffery

Sandor saving Sansa from the riot

Shireen teaching Ser Davos to read

Shoot even Jamie saving that girl being raped at Harrenhall, finding her a man who would be nice to her

Ned's promise to Lyanna

Theon saving fArya

Brienne stepping into the yard to protect the orphans 1 against 7

 

I could go on and on because it makes me feel better.

 

[a black swan]

Just now, SerMixalot said:

There are ALOT of examples from the books about empathy being expressed:

I could go on and on because it makes me feel better.

 

Not one mention of Arya despite the many many examples?

 

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

2 hours ago, SerMixalot said:

I think what I hate most about Game of Thrones is the embracing of nihilism.  The embrace goes far beyond the show itself.  GoT is actually nothing more than a zeitgeist of our culture.  It is the death of idealism transcended to the visual art form.  For decades our culture has gotten too self-aware, too meta, too cynical, too angry, too selfish and all of these traits are deeply ensconced in GoT.  It is the culture of revenge and being too cool to care and the death of believing in institutions embodied in a TV show.  I am so tired of those who think they are so wise because they can deconstruct movies or tv shows, like this is some form of special enlightenment.  That self-important culture of the individual manifests itself throughout the show and is completely contrary to the themes of the source material, which yes an adaptation should be true to.  No longer are societal structures of any positive benefit to the individual-religion no longer brings comfort, “government” no longer lives to protect those people who make up society, family no longer serves as the anchor to the individual.  All of these systems are corrupt and without merit.  The meaning of life is reduced to selfish desire. 

ASOIAF, to an observant reader, is so much more than a fantasy story about knights and ladies and dragons and dire wolves.  It is an exploration of the mythos of the culture of violence in all of its many manifestations-war, revenge, rape, slavery…. It deconstructs these mythoi to allow the reader to examine them and therefore allow an evaluation of our own character.  ASOIAF challenges the reader to consider the nature of what makes a villain.  It forces us to reconsider our own prejudices and destructive desires.  It forces us to rethink our black and white view of our world.  It forces us to evaluate the role of religion in one’s life.  Those themes are powerful in they touch on a sensitive issue in our day and age-the loss of empathy we have for other human beings.  Whether it is vilifying Muslims or supporting barbaric practices against criminals or turning a blind eye to the violence done by our nation in our name or a thousand other things.  We have, as a society, lost empathy for our fellow man.  There are many causes of that but one is the loss of trust in our societal institutions and a turning away from a faith in something greater than ourselves-god if you will, or simply doing the right thing. 

Game of Thrones ignores these themes and taps into our collective nihilism.  Violence is constantly rewarded, vengeance is the highest form of motivation, the innocent are victims whose purpose, at best, is to demonstrate who the bad guy is supposed to be, religion, family and governments exist solely to exploit the weak.  Unfortunately, the themes GoT embraces are too reflective of our society as a whole and exemplified by the show’s high ratings, constant critical acclaim and the use of the term badass when used in referenced to the show.  As if being a bad ass is inherently a good thing.  By playing on and reinforcing that the violent, the amoral, the arrogant, the cruel are “winners” or even simply the expected norm, the show telegraphs it underlying motivations.  Institutions are inherently bad, empathy, honor, even love itself will get you killed and therefore weak and undesirable.  Toxic characteristics should actively be sought. 

And probably the worst part of this, and so very typical of the current generation, is the arrogant, selfish displays of hubris by the creators.  Their consistent derogatory expressions of disagreement to their visions is disgusting, which is ironic when they combine that with a cowardly disassociation with the negative or even controversial aspects of their show.  Their odious presentation that they are progressives while consistently exploiting POC or women is reprehensible.   And that they are rewarded as the best of the best only reinforces their perceptions while solidifying their warped perceptions as norm in society.  These issues go far beyond their abilities as writers or show runners.  It goes to their using the worst parts of human nature as examples to be followed.  It goes to the reactive public that mindlessly agrees with their perceptions.  It goes to the unthinking, uncaring, unreflective, unempathetic nature of our culture that abhors values beyond self aggrandizement, that values violence over peace and embraces selfishness.  The show actively mocks honor and love as weak, which is a sad reflection on a society that does the same. 

We should want more.

You are, of course, right.

And it is because GoT embraces this cultural zeitgeist that it's become part of the culture zeitgeist. And that's why it get a pass on many of its storytelling flaws from the critics. 

This directly ties into the debate in the other thread about Fair Game, where people ask why does GoT get this treatment that other shows don't.   The answer is in your post.

 

[SerMixalot]

11 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Not one mention of Arya despite the many many examples?

 

ARRGHH< I went around Westeros in my mind and skipped her!!!!!  ARRGH

Arya saved 3 strangers from certain death!

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Arya also refused to abandon Weasel, and saved Gendry and Hotpie from Harrenhal. 

 

[a black swan]

Just now, SerMixalot said:

ARRGHH< I went around Westeros in my mind and skipped her!!!!!  ARRGH

Arya saved 3 strangers from certain death!

That's cool! I thought the Mycha incident might have been easier. She chose to defend a lowborn over the crown prince. And she cried after when Mycha was killed and was confused why no one else seemed to care? And I agree wth your overall post - nicely said!

[SerMixalot]

41 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Arya also refused to abandon Weasel, and saved Gendry and Hotpie from Harrenhal. 

 

And gave whatshisface great advice for when the wolves come-to yield

[The Knight in Motley]

2 hours ago, SerMixalot said:

i wrote it

Cheers, very well said.  I can hardly go anywhere but these threads to talk about GoT anymore.  Its like the Emperor's New Clothes, try and point out the flaws and the sycophants huff and puff about how beautifully its woven.  Its downright scary the lengths people will go to to 'explain' why or how something happened in the show.

At least one officemate was honest and said they just didn't care about the story. 

[Chickren]

6 minutes ago, The Knight in Motley said:

Its like the Emperor's New Clothes, try and point out the flaws and the sycophants huff and puff about how beautifully its woven.

I find myself using this analogy so much these days. 

[Le Cygne]

New rumor that LF tells Jon about R+L=J...

NOOooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chickren]

9 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

New rumor that LF tells Jon about R+L=J...

NOOooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just when I thought the show couldn't surprise me anymore.

[Arrow of the Morning]

3 hours ago, SerMixalot said:

 

I think what I hate most about Game of Thrones is the embracing of nihilism.  The embrace goes far beyond the show itself.  GoT is actually nothing more than a zeitgeist of our culture.  It is the death of idealism transcended to the visual art form.  For decades our culture has gotten too self-aware, too meta, too cynical, too angry, too selfish and all of these traits are deeply ensconced in GoT.  It is the culture of revenge and being too cool to care and the death of believing in institutions embodied in a TV show.  I am so tired of those who think they are so wise because they can deconstruct movies or tv shows, like this is some form of special enlightenment.  That self-important culture of the individual manifests itself throughout the show and is completely contrary to the themes of the source material, which yes an adaptation should be true to.  No longer are societal structures of any positive benefit to the individual-religion no longer brings comfort, “government” no longer lives to protect those people who make up society, family no longer serves as the anchor to the individual.  All of these systems are corrupt and without merit.  The meaning of life is reduced to selfish desire. 

ASOIAF, to an observant reader, is so much more than a fantasy story about knights and ladies and dragons and dire wolves.  It is an exploration of the mythos of the culture of violence in all of its many manifestations-war, revenge, rape, slavery…. It deconstructs these mythoi to allow the reader to examine them and therefore allow an evaluation of our own character.  ASOIAF challenges the reader to consider the nature of what makes a villain.  It forces us to reconsider our own prejudices and destructive desires.  It forces us to rethink our black and white view of our world.  It forces us to evaluate the role of religion in one’s life.  Those themes are powerful in they touch on a sensitive issue in our day and age-the loss of empathy we have for other human beings.  Whether it is vilifying Muslims or supporting barbaric practices against criminals or turning a blind eye to the violence done by our nation in our name or a thousand other things.  We have, as a society, lost empathy for our fellow man.  There are many causes of that but one is the loss of trust in our societal institutions and a turning away from a faith in something greater than ourselves-god if you will, or simply doing the right thing. 

 

I think this explains a lot of the show success of the show. I wonder how the show will age through out the years. As you said, the show is deeply embedded in the current nihilistic society, but society change and with it, the values and elements change too. If in the future, people became less selfish and nihilistic the show will become very dated and have a dated story or dated tone and message is much worst than have dated CGI.