J. Stargaryen

R+L=J v.163

310 posts in this topic

In traditional Scottish culture (ie the North for GRRM) marriages were often by consent. They were called 'left handed" and lasted a year and a day. If the couple were happy then they would wed more formally.  Consider Gretna Green in Scotland where  couples once fled (can they still?) to elope and announce they are man and wife to the first person they see.

 

The year and a day tradition also applied in Europe around May Day where often young couples went off to the woods on May eve and effectively were married a year and a day later on May Day - generally only after a child was born or coming.

The European marriage idea was imposed on Britain by the Romans and later the church. it is mostly about property. For Wilding in GRRM's tale where there is not much in the way of private property, marriage is less formal.

 

However clearly GRRM does intend something VERY significant about bastardry. First the bastard naming tradition, which is NOT a practice I have heard of from Europe. William the Conqueror was known as the Bastard of Normandy and signed himself William Bastardus - in other words he did just what Tyrion advised for Jon.  Most bastards would be known by where they were born (as were most nobles). Known bastards of Kings and senior royals were know as Fitzroy or Fitzclarence, FitzGerald, etc. However the naming of bastards by their kingdom seems very strange.

Secondly the WHOLE Craster story points to something special about bastards. Craster is terrified and angry that his children are called bastards. This seems to matter a very, very great deal - no idea why.

Thirdly the hints we get about bastards being treacherous - from Manderly and the glovers etc. There is clearly something wrong or even evil about them - think Ramsay Snow.

Finally we have the REQUIREMENT that bastards be acknowledged and raised with their fathers.  It is central to the whole story of Jon. Ned could have chosen to foster Jon with the Cerwyns or Ryswells or Umbers but chose not to. Why was this? His presence bothered Cat so much!!!  He could even have fostered Jon and Robb together if he wanted them to be friends.

 

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Because he promised his sister he would protect him, and he can't protect him if he's living somewhere else.

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On 6/3/2017 at 11:22 PM, Luddagain said:

Why was this?

Because he was a decent human being. Throwing a child with no family outside of the house to please an adult it what a jerk would have done. Even without his promise to Lyanna, Jon was a Stark and Winterfell was his house more than it was Cat's house. Lyanna was as much a Stark as he was and Jon is as Stark as the rest of his children.

Why he should keep the rest of the children, all of them boys and girls, and throw Jon out?

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Remembering Alfie Allen's comment about "Star Wars situation", here comes another bit that makes for a nice parallel (spoiler for Star Wars Rebels S3Ep20)

Spoiler

Look what happens when someone figures out what a knight in(almost)  white is doing in the middle of nowhere:

Keeping the Chosen One in secret is a tough job :-)

 

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5 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Remembering Alfie Allen's comment about "Star Wars situation", here comes another bit that makes for a nice parallel (spoiler for Star Wars Rebels S3Ep20)

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Look what happens when someone figures out what a knight in(almost)  white is doing in the middle of nowhere:

Keeping the Chosen One in secret is a tough job :-)

 

Indeed! 

No doubt the boy had made the mistake of thinking that the Night’s Watch was made up of men like his uncle. If so, Yoren and his companions were a rude awakening. Tyrion felt sorry for the boy. He had chosen a hard life … or perhaps he should say that a hard life had been chosen for him.

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7 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Remembering Alfie Allen's comment about "Star Wars situation", here comes another bit that makes for a nice parallel (spoiler for Star Wars Rebels S3Ep20)

  Hide contents

Look what happens when someone figures out what a knight in(almost)  white is doing in the middle of nowhere:

Keeping the Chosen One in secret is a tough job :-)

 

I like it. What I still find confusing about Alfie Allen's response when asked who Jon's parents were was the Luke Skywalker comment and then he goes on to talk about inbreeding in the middle ages. Never understood what that was all about. 

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On 3/23/2017 at 5:37 PM, Ygrain said:

Remembering Alfie Allen's comment about "Star Wars situation", here comes another bit that makes for a nice parallel (spoiler for Star Wars Rebels S3Ep20)

  Hide contents

Look what happens when someone figures out what a knight in(almost)  white is doing in the middle of nowhere:

Keeping the Chosen One in secret is a tough job :-)

 

Love this analogy, and spot on.:thumbsup:

(Obi Wan forever.......)

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Jon has a white wolf, and his color is black (as a man of the night's watch.) This reminds me of the reversal of arms for which bastards are known to do. 

I can't be the first to pick up on this.

But it makes me wonder if maybe Jon is not Rhaegar's. Maybe, Brandon's?

If Jon had taken the whitewolf/black field arms for himself, I wouldn't question it, because he thinks Ned is his father. But this more like foreshadowing.  

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^The Stark colours are grey and white, and the Targaryen colours are red and black. What are you getting at with black and white?

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6 hours ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

Jon has a white wolf, and his color is black (as a man of the night's watch.) This reminds me of the reversal of arms for which bastards are known to do. 

I can't be the first to pick up on this.

But it makes me wonder if maybe Jon is not Rhaegar's. Maybe, Brandon's?

If Jon had taken the whitewolf/black field arms for himself, I wouldn't question it, because he thinks Ned is his father. But this more like foreshadowing.  

In addition to @maudisdottir's comments, there is the problem that Brandon is dead before Jon is conceived.

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