Ser Snowflake

Tywin's reaction to The Purple Wedding

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I agree with @Colonel Green and @Shouldve Taken The Black that "I'm too smart to do it this way" and "Everyone wanted that jerk dead" are terrible court defenses, though it would've been entertaining to see them made. I think that it's possible Tywin did think of these possibilities, though, while trying to work out the truth. Ultimately, what does Tyrion in is that while these thoughts might give smart people who knew Tyrion pause, he also did have access to poisons, was seen pouring the wine, and his wife was a known enemy of Joffrey who fled the city. The suspiciousness of that is enough to wipe away the doubt from even most sympathetic audiences.

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2 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Like I said, there were specific reasons why the evidence was worse against Tyrion, such as him having been seen to pour away the wine, that he had stolen poisons found in his bedchamber, that he was supposedly seen to drop something into the wine…and the entire narrative Cersei and her witnesses spun.

 

Cersei had been wanting Tyrion dead since he was born. Surely Tywin knew about that. Also the imp has 101 weaknesses but he's ain't stupid. If he wanted Joffrey dead then surely he wouldn't hide the poison in his bedchamber. 

Prior to Tyrell intervention KL was starving, the Lannisters were being battered into a pulp by the young wolf and Stannis was sailing  to KL. There was no chance in hell that the Lannisters could defeat Stannis while keeping the young wolf at bay. The war could nose dive into a humiliating defeat if the Tyrells decide to dip their feet into war once again either in favour of Robb or in favour of Stannis. Hence why Tyrion decided to ship off Myrcella to Dorne to make sure that there's always a Lannister heir to the crown. Yes things were that desperate. 

LF turned a sure defeat into a win by bringing the Tyrells back to the fold. It was an act of courtesy from the Tyrells part. If Mace wanted, he could have easily sealed a deal with Robb and lead a combined army together which would have been unstoppable. Even without Robb's help the Reach could have raise a 60k army which is way bigger then anything the Lannisters or Stannis could raise at that point. The crown might have been on Joffrey's head but the true king lied elsewhere and Tywin knew that. 

Hence why as soon dust settled he started to make amends. He found a way of getting rid of the young wolf without losing any men then he consolidated power by 

a- marrying Tyrion to Sansa (removing a possible alliance between the Reach, the Vale, the Riverlands and the North)
b- giving the Freys Riverrun and the Boltons the North (which would lead to more loss of people and further weakening of these two hostile regions)

However he needed to be very very careful not to piss off the Tyrells enough for them to rebel. Hence why, when Joffrey died, no one dared pointing their finger at them. No one dared to do the same with the Prince of Dorne who had the motive, the means and the opportunity to poison Joffrey quite easily. I mean you don't need to be an expert to put the red viper on top of the suspicion list don't you?

Tyrion was accused because

 

a-  he was an easy target. If Tywin blamed the Tyrells then they would rebel and they had enough soldiers to crush him. If he blamed the Martells then they will close doors and Myrcella would suffer. Tyrion had no army to protect him.

b- He was a popular target. The Smallfolk hated him, the crown hated him and most Lannisters hated him.

c- he was an uncomfortable person to have around. He was the rightful heir to CR but Tywin would rather burn the whole Westerlands to the ground then giving it to him. He was given one task and that was to pollinate Sansa, a stunner and heir to the North. Such act would remove the Tyrell-Stark threat forever. However he refused to do that out of spite. (see it from Lannisters view)

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Above all, I think all of you seem to be skipping the fundamental question of the weapon.

Joff was poisoned with "strangler", that was introduced to the wedding on Sansa's hair, through a net that Dontos had given her. And it was LF who provided Dontos with the hair net. Consequently, for Tyrion to be guilty of killing Joff, he should had acted together with LF. Simply put, no way.

First suspect accomplice, LF

The venom was served in a chalice given to Joff by Mace Tyrell, so that Joff's cup was unmistakable. Margaery knew that she could drink from his cup until while he hadn't visited her family.

Second suspect accomplice, say Tyrells, some of them.

The chance to lure Joff near the Tyrells was given by the dwarves' show. Both Tyrion and Joff were well drunk and the lived up to the expectations. And then, no other that Tywin, had the pie brought in and summoned Joffrey in a way that he just couldn't refuse. He lost attention for his uncle and went to the pie. Meanwhile, he had to leave his purposely cumbersome chalice unattended so that the Tyrells could put the venom in it.

Third suspect accomplice, Tywin

LF had bartered a deal among Tywin and the Tyrells to fall on Stannis. Some of the clauses can be guessed, but not all. Removing Joff could be one of those. Tywin was strangely calmed when Joff died, and he never thought he was chocking with a morsel of food: he knew what was happening.

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58 minutes ago, finger said:

Above all, I think all of you seem to be skipping the fundamental question of the weapon.

Joff was poisoned with "strangler", that was introduced to the wedding on Sansa's hair, through a net that Dontos had given her. And it was LF who provided Dontos with the hair net. Consequently, for Tyrion to be guilty of killing Joff, he should had acted together with LF. Simply put, no way.

First suspect accomplice, LF

The venom was served in a chalice given to Joff by Mace Tyrell, so that Joff's cup was unmistakable. Margaery knew that she could drink from his cup until while he hadn't visited her family.

Second suspect accomplice, say Tyrells, some of them.

The chance to lure Joff near the Tyrells was given by the dwarves' show. Both Tyrion and Joff were well drunk and the lived up to the expectations. And then, no other that Tywin, had the pie brought in and summoned Joffrey in a way that he just couldn't refuse. He lost attention for his uncle and went to the pie. Meanwhile, he had to leave his purposely cumbersome chalice unattended so that the Tyrells could put the venom in it.

Third suspect accomplice, Tywin

LF had bartered a deal among Tywin and the Tyrells to fall on Stannis. Some of the clauses can be guessed, but not all. Removing Joff could be one of those. Tywin was strangely calmed when Joff died, and he never thought he was chocking with a morsel of food: he knew what was happening.

This.

During a Re-read of ASOS, I noticed how calm Tywin was during his final conversation with Tyrion. He never seemed overly angry with the imp regarding the PW, a reaction I would expect from a man like Tywin.....add that to the fact that Shae was found in his bed. At first, I assumed it was Cersei who put Shae up to lie during the trial, but now I wonder. 

Tywin knew about Shae as early as AGOT....Despite his warning to Tyrion about hanging the next whore he found in his bed, I suspect that he knew that she was in KL from the very beginning. It was probably  Tywin who had Shae frame Tyrion. 

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1 hour ago, finger said:

Above all, I think all of you seem to be skipping the fundamental question of the weapon.

Um, no, you're introducing a completely unrelated question.  The question is not who was behind the assassination (that was Littlefinger and the Tyrells), the question is whether Tywin believed Tyrion was guilty of it.

Which I think he absolutely did.  There's no indication that he didn't, and his death soon after renders the whole suggestion moot, narratively, so I don't see what the point would be of him actually working some completely different angle that the book itself never raises.  Something like that can't be disproven, but there's no real evidence for it.

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2 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

Um, no, you're introducing a completely unrelated question.  The question is not who was behind the assassination (that was Littlefinger and the Tyrells), the question is whether Tywin believed Tyrion was guilty of it.

Which I think he absolutely did.  There's no indication that he didn't, and his death soon after renders the whole suggestion moot, narratively, so I don't see what the point would be of him actually working some completely different angle that the book itself never raises.  Something like that can't be disproven, but there's no real evidence for it.

If this was Reddit I'd upvote you

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8 hours ago, devilish said:

Cersei had been wanting Tyrion dead since he was born. Surely Tywin knew about that.

Cersei's been fucking Jaime for twenty years, and Tywin didn't know about that.

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10 minutes ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Cersei's been fucking Jaime for twenty years, and Tywin didn't know about that.

If this was Reddit, I'd upvote this.

5 hours ago, finger said:

Above all, I think all of you seem to be skipping the fundamental question of the weapon.

Joff was poisoned with "strangler", that was introduced to the wedding on Sansa's hair, through a net that Dontos had given her. And it was LF who provided Dontos with the hair net. Consequently, for Tyrion to be guilty of killing Joff, he should had acted together with LF. Simply put, no way.

No one knew this, so how can they draw the connection.

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On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 9:41 PM, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Hmm? He doesn't want revenge on Joffrey, nor does he take it.

But the Reynes and Tarbecks, Elia Martell and her children, the War of the Five Kings itself... Tywin styles himself as an aloof realpolitiker, but it's an overrated reputation in my opinion.

All of these things were cold political calculations, not revenge. The Reynes and Tarbecks were rebel vassals who were challenging the authority of Casterly Rock -- and if the accounts in the World Book are accurate, it is questionable if Tywin would have completely destroyed each family if another option were available. The deaths of the Targ children were necessary in a political sense because they would have been the seeds of future rebellion had they lived, not because he hated them or wanted revenge on Aerys. And he says he didn't even give a thought about Elia herself because without Rhaegar and the children she was of no value. He launched the Wot5K after Cat snatched Tyrion, another affront to House Lannister that could not go unchallenged.

We can quibble over terminology, but none of this falls under revenge in my book. The Martells are driven by revenge, as is Lady Stoneheart, Arya, even Tyrion post-Clash... We don't have a POV of Tywin, but outwardly he doesn't express any overt hatred of his foes and his motivations seem driven by his desire to maintain the preeminence of House Lannister in the realm, not petty revenge for past slights.

So in response to the OP, no Tywin was not involved in Joffrey's death or Tyrion's frame-up because both results were detrimental to House Lannister and Tywin's grip on power.

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14 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

All of these things were cold political calculations, not revenge. The Reynes and Tarbecks were rebel vassals who were challenging the authority of Casterly Rock -- and if the accounts in the World Book are accurate, it is questionable if Tywin would have completely destroyed each family if another option were available. The deaths of the Targ children were necessary in a political sense because they would have been the seeds of future rebellion had they lived, not because he hated them or wanted revenge on Aerys. And he says he didn't even give a thought about Elia herself because without Rhaegar and the children she was of no value. He launched the Wot5K after Cat snatched Tyrion, another affront to House Lannister that could not go unchallenged.

That's only if you buy into the idea that Tywin's brutality in those instances was politically necessary, which I would say the text does not support.  

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5 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

That's only if you buy into the idea that Tywin's brutality in those instances was politically necessary, which I would say the text does not support.  

Eh, he beheaded rebellious lords who refused to yield. Robb Stark beheaded one of his own because he killed hostages. I don't see how either one could be said to have been driven by revenge rather than their ideas of justice. The heads of the Tarbecks were taken to Tarbeck Hall in order to get Lady T to yield -- another political maneuver. When that failed, he shelled the castle and a single stone brought down the entire keep, killing off the rest of the family. Se we can't even be sure if that was intentional.

At Castamere, we don't know what Reyard's terms were, so we can't be sure they were rejected because Tywin was hell-bent on revenge. They may have just been crappy terms. In the end, he had a choice of settling in for a lengthy siege -- perhaps years -- or flooding the castle. He chose the quicker option, but there is nothing I've seen that suggested it was anything other than simple expedience, not hatred and revenge.

When Cat snatched Tyrion, sure he could have petitioned the king to have him released, but Lannister power and pride was being challenged and Robert was off hunting. So his invasion of the Riverlands, and the manner in which it was done, had nothing to do with revenge, but politics.

Elia and the children: we don't know what his orders were, but he claims surprise at the brutality of it and I can't think of a reason why, nearly 20 years later, he would lie about that to Tyrion. He wanted the children killed, but the manner in which it was done was Clegane and Lorch.

Everybody sees what they will with a character like Tywin, but I see a practical but harsh man who does what he feels needs to be done to enhance the status of his house, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks. But, viva la D.

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8 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Everybody sees what they will with a character like Tywin, but I see a practical but harsh man who does what he feels needs to be done to enhance the status of his house, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks. But, viva la D.

Indeed. I would just add that the World Book is explicitly written to be from a particular perspective, which makes it unreliable; and that one reason Tywin might not confess to Tyrion that he wanted Elia Martell and her children brutally, horrifically murdered, is that he doesn't want to admit that he's a monster. Like I said, realpolitik is his image, an image he seeks to keep up in front of absolutely everyone. I bet he never even explicitly gives fucked up orders to Gregor Clegane - but he knows full well what those men will do regardless.

Edited by Illyrio Mo'Parties

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It is quite clear that Tywin thought his dwarf son killed his royal grandson. That's why he condemned him to death. If Tywin had had doubts he would have offered Tyrion a way out much sooner, either by rigging a trial-by-combat in his favor (say, by forbidding Gregor Clegane to champion the cause of the Crown) or by early offering him a deal to pardon him or send him to the Wall.

He did neither. He never even visited Tyrion in his cell. And Kevan also believes Tyrion is guilty. That much is plain in the book.

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14 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Cersei's been fucking Jaime for twenty years, and Tywin didn't know about that.

or refused to know

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I think people really underestimate what an utter blind spot Tywin has when it comes to Tyrion. He genuinely thinks him capable of all kinds of enormities, and is always willing to believe the worst in him. It’s irrational, and that’s why clever, cold, calculating Tywin is unlikely to doubt Tyrion’s guilt. It may not be as clever as we come to expect from Tywin, but he is irrational and a bit stupid when it comes to Tyrion.

Just look at how he treated Tyrion after the Blackwater. A clever thing to do would have been to recognise that Tyrion had saved the city, risked his life in the process, and done an excellent job as Hand. Instead, he dismisses everything Tyrion achieved. A clever man would have recognised that the threats against Tommen were empty, but Tywin is more than willing to believe that Tyrion would have carried them out. He should have known that Cersei hated Tyrion and would bullshit about him, instead he swallows her narrative whole.

Edited by Shouldve Taken The Black

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On 07/01/2017 at 0:32 PM, Lord Varys said:

And Kevan also believes Tyrion is guilty.

That's a crucial point as well. Kevan is Tywin’s confidant, and Tyrion more than once points out that Kevan never had a thought Tywin hadn’t had first (though Genna does suggest that Tywin did at least listen to Kevan, so there was some reciprocity there). Irrespective, it’s likely that if Tywin had any reservations about Tyrion’s guilt, Kevan would be aware of them, and share them.

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7 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

That's a crucial point as well. Kevan is Tywin’s confidant, and Tyrion more than once points out that Kevan never had a thought Tywin hadn’t had first (though Genna does suggest that Tywin did at least listen to Kevan, so there was some reciprocity there). Irrespective, it’s likely that if Tywin had any reservations about Tyrion’s guilt, Kevan would be aware of them, and share them.

Tyrion never saw the human side of Tywin because the man never made an attempt to share that. He thought his uncle was his father's parrot, because Tywin tended to have Kevan test the water in council when they were laying out things in front of other men (and Tyrion himself was never with Tywin and Kevan when they were discussing things in private).

Genna remembers her brothers as children and knows much more about their relationship.

No father actually loving his child would have treated Tyrion the way Tywin treated Tyrion had he been in the position Tywin was (effectively king) at the time of the trial.

Tywin had all the power he could possibly want, and he certainly could have rigged things so that Tyrion would be acquitted. The fact that he allowed things to go in the direction they went is essentially confirming that he was okay with it. Even conducting a trial against Tyrion was publicly humiliating House Lannister. Tywin could easily enough have refused to do it, claiming he himself had seen that Tyrion had not poisoned Joffrey. After all, he was in the throne room and a witness, too, and he could have had commanded Cersei, Kevan, and other people to back him on that.

The only reasonable conclusion is that Tywin actually believed Tyrion was guilty and was actually content to use this whole thing to finally rid himself of this abominable son.

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On 1/7/2017 at 1:32 PM, Lord Varys said:

It is quite clear that Tywin thought his dwarf son killed his royal grandson. That's why he condemned him to death. If Tywin had had doubts he would have offered Tyrion a way out much sooner, either by rigging a trial-by-combat in his favor (say, by forbidding Gregor Clegane to champion the cause of the Crown) or by early offering him a deal to pardon him or send him to the Wall.

IIRC this was what Kevan was offering to Tyrion. Confess and be sent to Wall. Tyrion's demand for trial by battle ruined Tywin's plan.

Else, I agree with you, the it was a way of getting rid of Tyrion and I guess Tywin wasn't at all sad of seeing Joffrey dead.

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5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

No father actually loving his child would have treated Tyrion the way Tywin treated Tyrion ...

The only reasonable conclusion is that Tywin actually believed Tyrion was guilty and was actually content to use this whole thing to finally rid himself of this abominable son.

I know there is a recurrent drumbeat in the forum that Tyrion really ISN'T Tywin's son. Maybe we have to examine Tywin's actions in that light.

If Tywin knows or suspects that Johanna was having an affair, maybe he cared for her enough that he would want to defend her honor by pretending that Tyrion is a Lannister, but he doesn't want Tyrion to inherit or to embarrass the Lannister family by being a drunken fool in public.

After failing in his efforts to curtail Tyrion's wild behavior, maybe Tywin decided that sending Tryion to the Wall was the best possible outcome. He may have seen the "trial" as a way to banish Tyrion to a safe, controlled environment where he couldn't create trouble.

But Tyrion's request for a trial by combat took Tywin and Kevan by surprise, as @rotting sea cow notes (above). Cersei had gotten Bronn out of the way, so they couldn't picture Tyrion finding another champion who would fight for him. The reader assumes that Oberyn Martell stepped in to champion Tyrion as a way to go after Gregor Clegane (and to undermine Tywin), but what if there is another aspect to his motive?

(This gets pretty far out on a limb now, but it's mostly stuff I've seen elsewhere in the forum.)

One theory of Tyrion's paternity is that Prince Lewyn Martell, who was a member of the King's Guard, might have been Johanna Lannister's paramour. So Oberyn would be stepping in to protect his cousin by defending Tyrion.

I have also seen speculation that Shae was a secret sand snake. What if she seduced Tywin with the intention of getting close so she could poison him? She may have been working with Oberyn to take out both Gregor and Tywin as part of the Martell revenge plan, but they didn't count on Jaime freeing Tyrion.

I guess this is all a tangent to the OP. Sorry if I've taken things too far off course.

To me, the evidence is clear that Tywin didn't see Joffrey as an asset. He wanted a clear and unquestioned Lannister heir and king, and he didn't like Joffrey's insolence or Joffrey's belief that Robert Baratheon was his father.

Lord Tywin studied his grandchild in silence, gold flecks shining in his pale green eyes. "Joffrey, apologize to your grandfather," said Cersei.
He wrenched free of her. "Why should I? Everyone knows it's true. My father won all the battles. He killed Prince Rhaegar and took the crown, while your father was hiding under Casterly Rock." The boy gave his grandfather a defiant look. "A strong king acts boldly, he doesn't just talk."

ASoS, Tyrion VI

Aside from being disrespectful, Joffrey's priggish remark to Tywin seems to disregard the fact that Tywin has just masterminded the ambush and death of Robb Stark.

Tywin's efforts have been focused on shoring up Lannister power and on getting Jaime out of the King's Guard so he could produce an unquestioned and legitimate Lannister heir. Tywin commissions two Valyrian steel swords, and gives the bigger sword to Jaime. Perhaps he had Jaime in mind, not Joffrey, when he said, "A king should bear a kingly weapon."

Maybe this undermines the point about Tywin believing Tyrion is not his son but, although Tywin provides no sword for Tyrion, he may have provided other symbolic items that show his grudging respect for Tyrion's capability and/or destiny. For instance, when Tyrion comes of age, Tywin puts him in charge of sewers and drains. Because of the pun on sewing and sewers, this responsibility can be compared to Jon giving Arya the sword called Needle. Later, on board the Shy Maid, the symbolic father Jon Connington (who will contract a slow but deadly illness while saving Tyrion from drowning) puts Tyrion to work sewing himself some dry clothes, a task that Tyrion enjoys. Tywin also "gives" Tyrion the Hand of the King chain of office, which includes the right to sit on the Iron Throne. Hands of Gold are always cold, and Tyrion does eventually use the chain as a weapon.

I have mused elsewhere that Tywin uses other people including his sons (and maybe his grandson) as weapons. The name "Kevan" may even by a play on "knave," in the sense that Tywin uses his brother like a servant, keeping him away from his home and family and using him for Lannister business. Tywin is a sort of disembodied arm, like Jaime's amputated kingslayer hand, that continues to kill after being severed (like the Jafer Flowers arm that attacks the Night's Watch).

Joffrey and Tyrion were both useful to a point, but were ultimately disposable in Tywin's larger scheme for control and power in Westeros. Everyone except Jaime was a pawn for Tywin.

 

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2 hours ago, Seams said:

I know there is a recurrent drumbeat in the forum that Tyrion really ISN'T Tywin's son. Maybe we have to examine Tywin's actions in that light.

If Tywin knows or suspects that Johanna was having an affair, maybe he cared for her enough that he would want to defend her honor by pretending that Tyrion is a Lannister, but he doesn't want Tyrion to inherit or to embarrass the Lannister family by being a drunken fool in public.

After failing in his efforts to curtail Tyrion's wild behavior, maybe Tywin decided that sending Tryion to the Wall was the best possible outcome. He may have seen the "trial" as a way to banish Tyrion to a safe, controlled environment where he couldn't create trouble.

But Tyrion's request for a trial by combat took Tywin and Kevan by surprise, as @rotting sea cow notes (above). Cersei had gotten Bronn out of the way, so they couldn't picture Tyrion finding another champion who would fight for him. The reader assumes that Oberyn Martell stepped in to champion Tyrion as a way to go after Gregor Clegane (and to undermine Tywin), but what if there is another aspect to his motive?

(This gets pretty far out on a limb now, but it's mostly stuff I've seen elsewhere in the forum.)

One theory of Tyrion's paternity is that Prince Lewyn Martell, who was a member of the King's Guard, might have been Johanna Lannister's paramour. So Oberyn would be stepping in to protect his cousin by defending Tyrion.

I have also seen speculation that Shae was a secret sand snake. What if she seduced Tywin with the intention of getting close so she could poison him? She may have been working with Oberyn to take out both Gregor and Tywin as part of the Martell revenge plan, but they didn't count on Jaime freeing Tyrion.

I guess this is all a tangent to the OP. Sorry if I've taken things too far off course.

To me, the evidence is clear that Tywin didn't see Joffrey as an asset. He wanted a clear and unquestioned Lannister heir and king, and he didn't like Joffrey's insolence or Joffrey's belief that Robert Baratheon was his father.

Lord Tywin studied his grandchild in silence, gold flecks shining in his pale green eyes. "Joffrey, apologize to your grandfather," said Cersei.
He wrenched free of her. "Why should I? Everyone knows it's true. My father won all the battles. He killed Prince Rhaegar and took the crown, while your father was hiding under Casterly Rock." The boy gave his grandfather a defiant look. "A strong king acts boldly, he doesn't just talk."

ASoS, Tyrion VI

Aside from being disrespectful, Joffrey's priggish remark to Tywin seems to disregard the fact that Tywin has just masterminded the ambush and death of Robb Stark.

Tywin's efforts have been focused on shoring up Lannister power and on getting Jaime out of the King's Guard so he could produce an unquestioned and legitimate Lannister heir. Tywin commissions two Valyrian steel swords, and gives the bigger sword to Jaime. Perhaps he had Jaime in mind, not Joffrey, when he said, "A king should bear a kingly weapon."

Maybe this undermines the point about Tywin believing Tyrion is not his son but, although Tywin provides no sword for Tyrion, he may have provided other symbolic items that show his grudging respect for Tyrion's capability and/or destiny. For instance, when Tyrion comes of age, Tywin puts him in charge of sewers and drains. Because of the pun on sewing and sewers, this responsibility can be compared to Jon giving Arya the sword called Needle. Later, on board the Shy Maid, the symbolic father Jon Connington (who will contract a slow but deadly illness while saving Tyrion from drowning) puts Tyrion to work sewing himself some dry clothes, a task that Tyrion enjoys. Tywin also "gives" Tyrion the Hand of the King chain of office, which includes the right to sit on the Iron Throne. Hands of Gold are always cold, and Tyrion does eventually use the chain as a weapon.

I have mused elsewhere that Tywin uses other people including his sons (and maybe his grandson) as weapons. The name "Kevan" may even by a play on "knave," in the sense that Tywin uses his brother like a servant, keeping him away from his home and family and using him for Lannister business. Tywin is a sort of disembodied arm, like Jaime's amputated kingslayer hand, that continues to kill after being severed (like the Jafer Flowers arm that attacks the Night's Watch).

Joffrey and Tyrion were both useful to a point, but were ultimately disposable in Tywin's larger scheme for control and power in Westeros. Everyone except Jaime was a pawn for Tywin.

 

Whats hilarious to me is that when Joffrey died, Cersei is the only person in the 7K to mourn.

 Tywin was present at the PW.....during his last palaver with Tyrion, Tywin speaks to him with zero emotion. Tywin showed more emotion when Jaime refused to quit the Kingsguard.

Imagine if he thought that Tyrion had killed his precious Jaime or Cersei. Tywin would have probably had the imp murdered in his cell. Tywin didn't like Tyrion or Joffrey....and what did the two have in common? Tywin never truly believed the imp was his,  and because of Stannis' letter, The issue of Joffrey's parentage was also in question.

We don't know what Tywin knew because he was murdered after the PW.....but based on how Tywin treated Tyrion, I doubt that Tywin would have exonerated his dwarf son even if he had the evidence that Joffrey was murdered by a 3rd party. The opportunity to finally get rid of the imp would have been too great for Ty to pass up. Tyrion became useless to House Lannister when he refused to consummate his marriage with the she-wolf. 

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