How is it not going to be two books?!

[shortguy457]

my question is how can Winds of Winter follow through after a book that took almost 120 chapters to tell? Winds is apparently rumored to be 80 chapters or less with just as many POV characters and with just as much potential of story to tell as the last one. How is this possible? It's not going to happen. People are saying that he's going to kill off POV character but If POV characters do die, it has to be at least two thirds into the story, otherwise their death will feel rushed, giving them just as much chapters they had in the last one. The story is going to have to be split into two books by the time Martin is finished, i don't see any other way. God i just hope that he doesn't do it by geography again. I don't know guys, im feeling very scared at the moment.

[Philpenn]

Flying cars better have little to no cabin noise.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

7 minutes ago, Philpenn said:

Flying cars better have little to no cabin noise.

You can find out probably before TWOW is released, the Dutch have started making one and will be available in 2018

https://www.pal-v.com/en/

[shortguy457]

13 minutes ago, Philpenn said:

Flying cars better have little to no cabin noise.

are u saying its best not complain about something that's probably not even going to be created? I want to cry now

[Gertrude]

 Hopefully he has all his pieces on the board and he's just describing how they tumble at this point. He's admitted that part of his problem in the past was due to skipping the planned five year gap, and we all know about the Merenese Knot. Trying to synch up characters felt like some stories were treading water while they waited for others to play out. I'm hoping like hell that the story can just unfold now.

The number of POVs doesn't bother me. I'm sure some will be pruned, but mostly I think they are going to overlap much more now as characters come together. More ground can be covered that way.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Let's not make a fetish out of being a "POV character". That's not an office granted for life and protected by law. There's the major six, and, apart from them, some characters who carried the camera for the sake of storytelling, and can be simply dropped as POV's. "A Song of Ice and Fire" is not the story of Davos Seaworth, Brienne the Beauty, Sam Tarly and the Greyjoys. The author doesn't need to, and IMO even shouldn't, tell all their own stories, each in excruciating details over thousands of pages.

So, the second they aren't absolutely essential to the exposition, I hope he'll drop them without second thought nor remorse. No need for killing or anything as dramatic as that.

[Philpenn]

1 hour ago, shortguy457 said:

are u saying its best not complain about something that's probably not even going to be created? I want to cry now

 

More of a cross that bridge when we get to it comment.  

[khal drogon]

I could see him finishing the series in two books if he didn't put too much fillers. I could see him covering more ground with 80 chapters in TWOW. One thing we have to understand is the next books are not going to setup anything. AFFC and ADWD are the setup for TWOW and all the previous books are the setup for ADOS. I don't see the reason we need 10 chapters each for just showing character development. Dany's or Jon's or Arya's learning arcs have ended already. Now it is time for them to act. When Martin makes them to start acting he would need less chapters to cover more ground. Let's say we have 80 chapters. If we divide it between three major threads 

1. The North - needs almost 24 chapters. Battle of winterfell and its aftermath needs lets say 10 chapters max distributed between POVs . We have 15 more chapters for other developments. I expect Theon to have 6 chapters. Asha 2,Davos 4, Mel 2, Bran 3, Jon 7.

2. The South - needs 34 chapters max. It needs more ground to cover but maximum setup is almost done so 34 chapters of action already feels almost right. I expect Cersei to have almost 5 chapters, Jaime 5, Sansa 5, Arianne 5, Hotah 2, Aeron 3, Brienne 3, Sam 4, Jon Con 2

3. The East - at max needs 22 chapters. It seems Dany has to cover a lot but we have to remember she conquered 3 cities in 6 chapters. I expect Barristan to have 3 chapters, Arya 4, Victarion 2, Tyrion 6, Dany 7

Of course I could be wrong but it is doable for Martin. Also ADOS is going to be at least 80 chapters long. It is not impossible to do the War for the Dawn within 80 chapters.

[Praetor Xyn]

At this point it's looking like it's going to be zero books as I'm starting to doubt it will ever be finished.

[The Bastards Giant Friend]

10 hours ago, Philpenn said:

Flying cars better have little to no cabin noise.

Will everyone be a pilot then? Or a flyer? Still a regular old driver?

Two is twice as many as one but only half as much as four. I prefer to have twice as much because I am American. So let's hope for 8 and be happy with 5.

[Nevets]

1 hour ago, khal drogon said:

I could see him finishing the series in two books if he didn't put too much fillers. I could see him covering more ground with 80 chapters in TWOW. One thing we have to understand is the next books are not going to setup anything. AFFC and ADWD are the setup for TWOW and all the previous books are the setup for ADOS. I don't see the reason we need 10 chapters each for just showing character development. Dany's or Jon's or Arya's learning arcs have ended already. Now it is time for them to act. When Martin makes them to start acting he would need less chapters to cover more ground. Let's say we have 80 chapters. If we divide it between three major threads 

1. The North - needs almost 24 chapters. Battle of winterfell and its aftermath needs lets say 10 chapters max distributed between POVs . We have 15 more chapters for other developments. I expect Theon to have 6 chapters. Asha 2,Davos 4, Mel 2, Bran 3, Jon 7.

2. The South - needs 34 chapters max. It needs more ground to cover but maximum setup is almost done so 34 chapters of action already feels almost right. I expect Cersei to have almost 5 chapters, Jaime 5, Sansa 5, Arianne 5, Hotah 2, Aeron 3, Brienne 3, Sam 4, Jon Con 2

3. The East - at max needs 22 chapters. It seems Dany has to cover a lot but we have to remember she conquered 3 cities in 6 chapters. I expect Barristan to have 3 chapters, Arya 4, Victarion 2, Tyrion 6, Dany 7

Of course I could be wrong but it is doable for Martin. Also ADOS is going to be at least 80 chapters long. It is not impossible to do the War for the Dawn within 80 chapters.

Nice to see someone else thinks serious headway can be made in TWOW.  I have been having this discussion on the "Winds" subforum.  He just has to concentrate on the main stories and the main characters. 

I do have some problems with some of your chapter counts.  Bran and Arya are main characters who are coming into their own and are going to need a lot more than 3-4 chapters.  I also think East Essos will need more, while the South can probably be handled with a bit less  My take:

The North - 24 chapters is about right.  Jon will return quickly - he's either only injured or gets resurrected quickly.  Winterfell needs only 6-8 chapters.  Davos will visit Hardhome and the Far North, and Bran will do some serious and useful magic.  The Others show up at Wall in force at halfway point.

   Jon 6, Bran 5, Davos 5, Theon 3, Asha 3, Mel 2 

The South - 30 chapters.   A lot of moving parts here, but everything is pretty much set up, so it's mostly continuation and resolution of existing stories.

    Sansa 6, Cersei 5, Samwell 4, Jaime 3, Brienne 3, Arianne 4, JonCon 2, Areo Hotah 2, Aeron 1

East Essos - 20 Chapters.   Daenerys is going to need quite a few chapters to gather the Dothraki and move west.  Tyrion also needs to either stabilize or lose Meereen.  I predict she and Tyrion meet in the Free Cities (Pentos?) at about the 3/4 mark.

     Daenerys 9, Tyrion 7, Barristan 2, Victarion 2

Wild Card - Arya will leave Braavos after about 3 chapters, with 4 more somewhere in Westeros.  Total of 7.

This makes 81 plus a prologue at Casterly Rock for 82, the same number as SOS.

 

[Dorian Martell's son]

15 hours ago, shortguy457 said:

my question is how can Winds of Winter follow through after a book that took almost 120 chapters to tell? Winds is apparently rumored to be 80 chapters or less with just as many POV characters and with just as much potential of story to tell as the last one. How is this possible? It's not going to happen. People are saying that he's going to kill off POV character but If POV characters do die, it has to be at least two thirds into the story, otherwise their death will feel rushed, giving them just as much chapters they had in the last one. The story is going to have to be split into two books by the time Martin is finished, i don't see any other way. God i just hope that he doesn't do it by geography again. I don't know guys, im feeling very scared at the moment.

Well, write your own fantasy epic and see how it turns out. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

It's entirely possible.

Killing off various PsOV will not be difficult with the potential for grey plague, dragon vs dragon war, a literally killer winter starting, a food shortage, shadow assassins, prophecies of doom, personal grudges, and the Others. Euron alone will be killing scores of people and could easily take out multiple POV characters. Not counting prologue or epilogue extras, TWoW will start with 21 POV characters. Kill off seven in TWoW book and ADoS will start with 14. Take out half of them and the series ends with 7 characters, which goes nicely with the Faith of the Seven. If he goes back to just the characters who started the series and eliminates the ones who are dead/undead already, then he'll have six. That of course would require not killing any more of the original POV characters.

The number of chapters doesn't matter. We only have rumors at this point and chapter lengths tend to vary. The limitations on book size are based on page count because you can only print a book with so many pages in it.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

*double post*

[Lockjaw of House Boltagon]

On 2/13/2017 at 6:51 PM, Dorian Martell's son said:

Well, write your own fantasy epic and see how it turns out. 

George, less browsing the forums and more writing!

Honestly, a single (albeit a very, very long) book could be enough with the right pace. Unfortunately, if the excerpt chapters are anything to go by, the pace remains horribly slow, so I fear it's gonna be another "road to the fireworks factory" type of book, though I hope not. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

30 minutes ago, Lyin' Ned said:

George, less browsing the forums and more writing!

Honestly, a single (albeit a very, very long) book could be enough with the right pace. Unfortunately, if the excerpt chapters are anything to go by, the pace remains horribly slow, so I fear it's gonna be another "road to the fireworks factory" type of book, though I hope not. 

The excerpts all seem to be from chapters that will be early in TWOW. So their pace fits perfectly with where he left off. You don't just go from regular at the end of one book to warp speed at the beginning of the next. Things will definitely get moving and probably faster than any of us anticipate.

[Lockjaw of House Boltagon]

1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

The excerpts all seem to be from chapters that will be early in TWOW. So their pace fits perfectly with where he left off. You don't just go from regular at the end of one book to warp speed at the beginning of the next. Things will definitely get moving and probably faster than any of us anticipate.

I don't know, man. Mercy's got a perfectly (and surprisingly) brisk pace, despite being presumably from early TWOW. But then you've also got Arianne's excerpts, which are just this terrible bloated slog chock-full of filler. So who knows, it's a mixed bag. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

5 hours ago, Lyin' Ned said:

George, less browsing the forums and more writing!

Honestly, a single (albeit a very, very long) book could be enough with the right pace. Unfortunately, if the excerpt chapters are anything to go by, the pace remains horribly slow, so I fear it's gonna be another "road to the fireworks factory" type of book, though I hope not. 

He only writes for his muse. While I am sure that works great for him, I can understand why some of the people who support his very comfortable artist's lifestyle would like him to dedicate far more time to his craft. The book will be enjoyable. We are too far in for it to be any other way. 

[Orphalesion]

Personally I'm worried about a Order of the Phoenix/Half Blood Prince/Deathly Hollows type of deal. Waaaay too much buildup and then a rushed ending due to exhaustion and time constrains.

8 hours ago, Lyin' Ned said:

 Unfortunately, if the excerpt chapters are anything to go by, the pace remains horribly slow, so I fear it's gonna be another "road to the fireworks factory" type of book, though I hope not. 

Gotta agree here, what we have seen so far looks exactly like more of DWDFFC a lot of walking around, a lot of long conversations about what might happen, heraldry, tapestries etc. etc. etc. personally once it is published I'm not buying the book until I have verified whether it has more plot than the last two. I mean he has already talked of a potential eight book. And those statements about how WoW will "explore the world beyond the wall". "Exploring" brings the Shy Maid chapters to mind, not something fast paced.

I just don't have the confidence anymore that the pace will pick up anytime soon.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

He only writes for his muse. While I am sure that works great for him, I can understand why some of the people who support his very comfortable artist's lifestyle would like him to dedicate far more time to his craft. The book will be enjoyable. We are too far in for it to be any other way. 

He dedicates a lot of time to it. Not all of his time, but a lot. The problem is that there are some days as a writer where no matter how hard you try nothing good comes. You can write all day and end up with thousands of words that get cut from the story. Those days keep you in the habit of writing but they don't actually add much to the book. 

Though I have to say it's fun when you look back at absolute dreck from a bad writing day and find one gleaming gem of a sentence or phrase. In those cases it is not entirely time lost.