Graydon Hicks

what robb could have done better?

131 posts in this topic

now, ive been thinking about robb's military and political actions, and i think he could have done a few things a little better. one, i think he shouldnt have begun striking into the westerlands as he did. i think he was beginning to over extended himself a bit, when he should have been forting up the riverlands. with no natural defenses, the riverlands has to be dependent on its keeps and forts for defense. and with tywin in the eastern riverlands at harrenhal, ready to move on kings landing, he could have simply settled for cutting his supply line back to the westerlands, and waited for tywin to either come to him on ground of his choosing, or fall back to kingslanding, then replace him in harrenhal with a force sufficient to keep the old lion safely behind the walls of the capitol. then if tywin wants to get back home, he'll have to either risk looping down through the stormlands, where he is as wanted dead as he his in the north, or through the reach, who'se loyalties he cant be sure of.

i think robb should have still broken his contract with walder frey, not that i have anything against roslin, but i dont trust walder. he, and most of his family, seem the types to break oath at the first opportunity, especially is someone offers them a better deal, or frey feels he didnt get everything he deserved out of his pact, especailly if robb managed to become far more successful after his contract. i think i have read of more references of house frey holding to the words of their oaths, but nowhere close to the spirit of the oaths, or even ignoring those oaths entirely. i think frey would have still betrayed robb, even if he had married roslin, maybe take him prisoner after the bedding, then hand him over to tywin, claiming he always held faith with the iron throne.

what do yall think? what could robb have done differently to avoid his screw ups?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Graydon Hicks said:

what do yall think? what could robb have done differently to avoid his screw ups?

yes if he was in a different story written by a different author 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh come on, dont you ever wonder at the what ifs? thats have to reason im even on this forum, looking at the what ifs, getting folks opinions, encouraging thoughts. the imagination is the garden of my delight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He could have not betrayed his supporters and allies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Betraying the Freys didn't help. Given the current chaos, he could still be alive and kicking now without that. But in the long term he was doomed. Going south was an error. He could have declared the North independence, prepared for winter, and waited the Lannisters at Moat Cailin. But in the end, with the Others going south and Daenerys coming with dragons, he was lost. His last hope would be the Others going south against the Fire and ignoring him. Ice and Fire annihilating each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He should've consumated his marriage with Frey girl (of his choosing) like his father did with his mother rather than waiting until the end of war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, in my humble opinion Robb couldn't have settle in Moat Callin for those reasons :

1) what about Riverrun ? 

2) he needed to ensure some alliances with Stannis or Renly

3) the north was going to be invaded by Ironmen anyway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Well, in my humble opinion Robb couldn't have settle in Moat Callin for those reasons :

1) what about Riverrun ? 

2) he needed to ensure some alliances with Stannis or Renly

3) the north was going to be invaded by Ironmen anyway

  1. He could not claim Riverrun. Riverrun had to remain neutral like the Eyrie. At best joining one of the Baratheons, if they can have a deal. Riverrun is on the wrong side of Moat Cailin and can't be protected from the Lannisters.
  2. Not necessarily. Not if they can't have an agreement on a separated North. Yes, he can't defeat the Lannisters without an alliance.
  3. Not if all the northern lords were in their castles or at Moat Cailin.

Basically he can't defeat the Lannisters in this was. He could just make them pay for Ned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Robb would have won if he married the Frey girl, didn't kill Karstark and if he gave explicit orders to Edmure not to meet Tywin in battle. If he does the last part he wins GG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Robb would have won if he married the Frey girl, didn't kill Karstark and if he gave explicit orders to Edmure not to meet Tywin in battle. If he does the last part he wins GG.

Not really because with the Tyrells in Tywin's pocket, the 4000 extra troops from House Frey is not going to be any match for the 100,000 strong Tyrell army who combined with the Westerlands had far more money, provisions and people than Robb's kingdom (which by that time was limited to the devastated Riverlands after the Ironborn invaded the North).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Kaibaman said:

Not really because with the Tyrells in Tywin's pocket, the 4000 extra troops from House Frey is not going to be any match for the 100,000 strong Tyrell army who combined with the Westerlands had far more money, provisions and people than Robb's kingdom (which by that time was limited to the devastated Riverlands after the Ironborn invaded the North).

If Stannis takes King's Landing before Tywin can come to the rescue it will be pretty much GG. 

Stannis will execute Joffrey and take many important hostages. Tywin probably wouldnt know that Tommen was alive or were he was so no marriage with Margery. Also if Stannis took the capital Mace would probably puss out. 

Tywin would be forced to attack the well defended King's Landing outnumberd because he couldnt afford a siege with Robb at his back. 

Say that Tywin finds Tommen and makes an alliance with Tyrell and marches on King's Landing. Stannis would still have an uncontested fleet that could supply the city and his troops are mostly knights that kick peasant ass. If 80% of Renlys army of nobles joined Stannis that quickly do you think that the levies of those knights and lords would be on Mace and Tywins side or would they flipp to the king on whos side their lords are on. Stannis is the best commander and i dont think mace and tywin could take the city by storm no way. I think that Stannis could even sally out and take them out. Stannis could even be patient and wait out a siege to wait for Robb and his wolves to come in the night (spooky scary spooky) Also the title king draws many followers just by the fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leaving more men behind to defend the North would be ideal, but I'm not sure if he really had any to spare. The North is sparsely populated, and they were taking on huge southron armies. I can understand why he sent Theon to treat with Balon--Robb doesn't realize how much of a madman Balon is, and to be fair, I don't know if George originally intended for him to be that was when he started writing the series. Cat herself remarks in AGOT that they might have need of Theon's father's ships, which contrasts with her caution towards Balon in the next book. It would have been safer, however, if Robb sent a few of his men along with Theon. At the very least, they could have sent Robb word of any sign of betrayal, and their presence might have made Theon less willing to turn his back on the Starks. 

I do think that Robb could have quickly married Jeyne of to one of his bannerman if he was concerned about protecting her honor. Cersei mentions at one point that it wasn't unheard of for lords to marry off their newly pregnant daughters as a way of preventing a scandal, and I'm sure Robb had plenty of men in his service who would not be opposed to marrying a pretty young noblewoman like Jeyne. I have no doubt that Walder Frey would have still betrayed Robb, but more people may have lived if his betrayal was more based on saving his own skin then on a personal vendetta. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

If Stannis takes King's Landing before Tywin can come to the rescue it will be pretty much GG. 

Except the Tyrells had already made the agreement with the Crown and were already on the Blackwater before Tywin met up with them. 

 

Plus if Edmure is told to remain in Riverrun what happens if Tywin receives a rider and simply turns around?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Except the Tyrells had already made the agreement with the Crown and were already on the Blackwater before Tywin met up with them. 

 

Plus if Edmure is told to remain in Riverrun what happens if Tywin receives a rider and simply turns around?

 

Yes but there would be no one to marry and the hole situation would seem shit to mace who is a coward.

He wouldnt make it in time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Yes but there would be no one to marry and the hole situation would seem shit to mace who is a coward.

How is Mace a coward?

A coward would never have crowned Renly King, a coward would never have killed Stannis supporters at Bitterbridge or marched to battle against (F)Aegon. 

There is zero evidence in the books that he is a coward. He's pompous and arrogant. 

2 hours ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

He wouldnt make it in time.

I'm sorry, but this is impossible to know. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Graydon Hicks said:

oh come on, dont you ever wonder at the what ifs? thats have to reason im even on this forum, looking at the what ifs, getting folks opinions, encouraging thoughts. the imagination is the garden of my delight.

There aren't what ifs. This is a work of fiction by an renowned author. The story is his. I understand a desire to wonder how the author could have written things differently, I find his 1993 outline very interesting, especially because his take on Jamie and Tyrion to be quite different than what he had published years later. But no, Robb couldn't have done anything different because he isn't real 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

How is Mace a coward?

A coward would never have crowned Renly King, a coward would never have killed Stannis supporters at Bitterbridge or marched to battle against (F)Aegon. 

There is zero evidence in the books that he is a coward. He's pompous and arrogant. 

I'm sorry, but this is impossible to know. 

Every character in the book thinks he is an incompetent coward.

Mace knew Robb and Tywin had bloodied out eachother severly and all other kingdoms were neutral. Him crowning Renly dosnt make him not a coward. Tarly killed the Stannis supporters and he outnumbers the Golden Company many times over.

We do know because if Stannis was a little bit further east he would not have the time to take Stannis by suprise we know this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think rob should have let karstark live but killed the others. Him marrying jane was foolish but I don't think the frey's would have stayed loyal either way. Robs biggest weakness in terms of leadership was the way he handeled politics. He should have told edmure not to go out to meet tywin in battle and why. If that had worked tywin would have been forced to either let his son,daughter,and grandson die in kings landing or make peace with rob. That was really when rob lost the war. Because while I don't think mace tyrell is a coward I think he is more cautious then most. If stannis sat on the iron throne and joffrey was dead then tywin would have been seen as weak and lost some of his fearsome reputation. And if stannis took the iron throne then tywin would be forced to attack kingslanding rather then lay siege because rob would be at his back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

he should have send catelyn to the iron islands instead of Theon, but he's biggest mistake was to give R.Bolton command of his army in this he ignored the dark history between the Starks and the Boltons which was bit obvious since the only time that a bolton was given a command of the north army by a stark was during the battle of northern east coast against the Andals invasion and that was the only time.      

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Every character in the book thinks he is an incompetent coward.

If that is the case I expect you to quote at least two characters who call him a coward.

43 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Mace knew Robb and Tywin had bloodied out eachother severly and all other kingdoms were neutral. Him crowning Renly dosnt make him not a coward. Tarly killed the Stannis supporters and he outnumbers the Golden Company many times over.

He outnumbered Stannis as well, how is him marching to battle against Aegon any different than against Stannis?

43 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

We do know because if Stannis was a little bit further east he would not have the time to take Stannis by suprise we know this.

Do we? We have no idea how long it would have taken Stannis to first breach the walls of Kings Landing and then the Red Keep. He would have won, we just don't know how long it would have taken. Tywin may well have had time to make it before the city was secured. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now