Manhole Eunuchsbane

U.S. Politics: One NothingBurger with 100% Mos-Cow, Side of Orange Slices and a Banana Daiquiri, Please

418 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Mike Pence none the wiser.

Absolutely incorrect. 

40 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

So, who decides whether Kushner does or does not have security clearance?  Because it seems like the evidence is almost overwhelming, unless some of the facts presented in that article are wrong. 

Trump does. He can rewrite the rules. 

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23 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Absolutely incorrect. 

Trump does. He can rewrite the rules. 

There's no way that security clearances are all handled by the president directly.  Obviously it will be someone who ultimately answers to Trump, but who is that person?

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26 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

There's no way that security clearances are all handled by the president directly.  Obviously it will be someone who ultimately answers to Trump, but who is that person?

Handling security clearances is most likely one of the many jobs Trump assigned to Kushner along with establishing peace in the Middle East.

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Posted (edited)

29 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

There's no way that security clearances are all handled by the president directly.  Obviously it will be someone who ultimately answers to Trump, but who is that person?

(I think this is how it was, but don't flame me if I get anything wrong, it's been a while and things do change) There is a "clearing house" that reviews all the security clearance investigations and makes the determination if a person gets the clearance they have applied for.  There are several of these for different major departments.  When derogatory information is found, after the fact, or if a person who was denied files to have his file re-evaluated, there is a board, one level up, that does these reviews.

For example, the Army has it's clearing house, but if a person wanted a re-evaluation, or after they had derogatory information reported on them, the files would be sent to a Department of Defense board for review.

It's different with the White House and staff.  I think the Pentagon (DoD) would be responsible for granting the clearances, but I don't know who the review board would be (DHS?).  The president had classification authority, but I don't know if he could grant clearances.

Now the fact that the forms require you to swear to the truthfulness and completeness of the forms under the penalty of perjury, and clearly state that lying/omitting could be punished by fines or imprisonment should be an entirely separate matter.

 

Edited by Lany Freelove Cassandra

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Does...does Trump not know what 'transparency' meant with respect to building the wall?

 

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

Now the fact that the forms require you to swear to the truthfulness and completeness of the forms under the penalty of perjury, and clearly state that lying/omitting could be punished by fines or imprisonment should be an entirely separate matter.

 

Yeah, but it seems to me that the burden of proof for revoking someone's clearance should be lower than for perjury.  The bar for perjury is actually pretty high, whereas just revoking someone's clearance ought not require that wrongdoing be proven to such an extent.  It seems to me that if Kushner failed to report this meeting (presumably because he either "forgot" or thought it wasn't important enough to mention), that alone should be enough that his clearance should be revoked.  Surely someone in DoD or State or DHS is worried about this, right? 

Edited by Maithanet

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3 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Yeah, but it seems to me that the burden of proof for revoking someone's clearance should be lower than for perjury.  The bar for perjury is actually pretty high, whereas just revoking someone's clearance ought not require that wrongdoing be proven to such an extent.  It seems to me that if Kushner failed to report this meeting (presumably because he either "forgot" or thought it wasn't important enough to mention), that alone should be enough that his clearance should be revoked.  Surely someone in DoD or State or DHS is worried about this, right? 

Yeah, or at least suspended pending further investigation.

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1 minute ago, Maithanet said:

Yeah, but it seems to me that the burden of proof for revoking someone's clearance should be lower than for perjury.  The bar for perjury is actually pretty high, whereas just revoking someone's clearance ought not require that wrongdoing be proven to such an extent.  It seems to me that if Kushner failed to report this meeting (presumably because he either "forgot" or thought it wasn't important enough to mention), that alone should be enough that his clearance should be revoked.  Surely someone in DoD or State or DHS is worried about this, right? 

I would think so.  There doesn't need to be any crime committed to lose your clearance.  You can lose it over excessive debt, marital affairs, radical ideology, and many other things that aren't illegal.  Anything they feel would leave you susceptible to coercion or blackmail.  Finances were always a huge factor

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8 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Does...does Trump not know what 'transparency' meant with respect to building the wall?

 

WTF? The wall needs to be transparent so drug dealers don't kill one another whilst throwing sacks of drugs over it? That's cray.

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2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Idk. Pence and Trump don't have any chemistry, and moreover, are totally different people. It wouldn't shock me at all to learn that Pence has little to no role in this WH. After all, the only reason he was on the ticket was to secure evangelicals. That may still be his only job. 

Yea, but Pence has been involved. He's the go to man on Capital Hill and he's the go to man for fundraising. On top of that, he was the leader of the Transition and received specific letters from Congress discussing Michael Flynn working for Turkey which he claimed he knew nothing and which he did absolutely nothing about. He's also been on TV time after time defending Trump. Maybe he knows nothing, it's certainly possible, but the Flynn shit during the transition bothers me and I find it hard to believe he's so walled off that he knows absolutely nothing about anything.

Jaime sent me this link to a Chris Hayes tweet storm. I think he nails it.

 

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Posted (edited)

Oh and now there is this.

ETA: Just one more article for fun. Seems Kasowitz is a bit unhinged as you'd expect from a mob lawyer.

Quote

The man, a retired public relations professional in the western United States who asked not to be identified, read ProPublica’s story this week on Kasowitz and sent the lawyer an email with the subject line: “Resign Now.’’

Kasowitz replied with series of angry messages sent between 9:30 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern time. One read: “I’m on you now.  You are fucking with me now Let’s see who you are Watch your back , bitch.”

In another email, Kasowitz wrote: “Call me.  Don’t be afraid, you piece of shit.  Stand up.  If you don’t call, you’re just afraid.” And later: “I already know where you live, I’m on you.  You might as well call me. You will see me. I promise.  Bro.”

 

Edited by Mexal

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Trump would like you to know that France sided with the US during the Revolutionary war. Betcha didn't know that.

He'd also like you to know Lincoln was a Republican. Betcha didn't know that either.

This guy is just wealth of knowledge. You could learn a lot from this guy. I'm kickin' myself for fucking off too much and not getting into Trump U.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trumps-magic-words-lot-people-dont-know

Quote

Today, for example, Trump held a joint press conference alongside French President Emmanuel Macron, where the U.S. president declared, “France is America’s first and oldest ally. A lot of people don’t know that.” If you watch the brief clip, you’ll note that the first sentence was part of the prepared text, but the second sentence was ad libbed.

 

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1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

Trump would like you to know that France sided with the US during the Revolutionary war. Betcha didn't know that.

He'd also like you to know Lincoln was a Republican. Betcha didn't know that either.

This guy is just wealth of knowledge. You could learn a lot from this guy. I'm kickin' myself for fucking off too much and not getting into Trump U.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trumps-magic-words-lot-people-dont-know

 

Wasn't the Republican party mostly liberal when Lincoln was President?

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

There's no way that security clearances are all handled by the president directly.  Obviously it will be someone who ultimately answers to Trump, but who is that person?

I'm not sure really, so I'd go with what Lany said. The point I was trying to make though is that in theory Trump can rewrite the rules to protect Jared. They were talking about it on NBC, but I've been unable to find the clip to post here. 

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1 hour ago, Mexal said:

Yea, but Pence has been involved. He's the go to man on Capital Hill and he's the go to man for fundraising. On top of that, he was the leader of the Transition and received specific letters from Congress discussing Michael Flynn working for Turkey which he claimed he knew nothing and which he did absolutely nothing about. He's also been on TV time after time defending Trump. Maybe he knows nothing, it's certainly possible, but the Flynn shit during the transition bothers me and I find it hard to believe he's so walled off that he knows absolutely nothing about anything.

Jaime sent me this link to a Chris Hayes tweet storm. I think he nails it.

 

Hmm, you do have a point there. I guess Pence does have a larger role than I was giving him credit for, but I still see him as being in the outer circle of the Administration. Aldo, I didn't know about the Turkey and Flynn stuff. Here I come, Google! 

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3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Hmm, you do have a point there. I guess Pence does have a larger role than I was giving him credit for, but I still see him as being in the outer circle of the Administration. Aldo, I didn't know about the Turkey and Flynn stuff. Here I come, Google! 

To get you started.

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Posted (edited)

On 7/13/2017 at 5:34 PM, Red Tiger said:

Wasn't the Republican party mostly liberal when Lincoln was President?

Well I'd argue that it certainly had a progressive wing. A lot of the Central Europeans, after the revolutions of 1848 emigrated to America, to avoid political retaliation for their support of the 1848 revolution. They were a collection of liberals (in the classic sense) and socialist. Many of them would eventually join the Republican Party.

When Paul "Numbers Guy" Ryan talked about "German Intellectuals" a few years back, he wasn't exactly wrong (for once). What he failed to mention was that many or most of them became Republicans and were kind of socialisticyish.

And Lincoln was influenced by Henry Clay. Clay's "American System" certainly wasn't, I don't think, the free market fundamentalism of it's day. 

Edited by OldGimletEye

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Bit of good news; 24 House Republicans defected on an amendment to the defense approps bill that would've prohibited service members from receiving medical care related to gender transition. Its mostly the usual suspects who decided to vote no https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEpdqOzXsAIyMt6.jpg:large

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3 hours ago, The Wedge said:

Your laugh of the afternoon, courtesy of Pence.

Pence: Leaders should be humble, exercise self-control

 

:rofl:

 

This is the attitude of someone who can't wait to be in a place of real  power. He thinks he was chosen by his god to be VP,  not by the dunderheaded boss he has. Be very scared if he ever gets a sniff of real power. 

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I know this is going to be bullshit, and I know that it doesn't matter, but the timing is...not great.

 

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