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Clegane'sPup

cliffhangers

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Which POV is going to tell the tale of Stannis and the battle at the crofters village and who is going to tell what is happening inside the walls of WF? I know that Theon & Jeyne jumped off a wall into the snow. Then, I think it is an Asha PoV,  the banker showed up near Stannis' camp with Theon & Jeyne.

 

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I agree, Asha and Theon for the crofters village.

TWoW Theon I spoiler:

Spoiler

Stannis sent Justin Massey to escort Tycho Nestoris and fArya back to the Wall, although it isn't clear whether they have left by the end of the chapter.

Now Winterfell is a different story... there are no PoVs there at the mo, and didn't Martin say no more new PoVs? 

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It would have to be Asha and Theon. Asha and her ironborn are going to fight for Stannis apparently, so they can give a frontline view of the battle. Theon, being a prisoner, is more likely to be held back with Stannis, and can therefore give that perspective.

I assume they'll also be the ones to witness the events at Winterfell, some period of time after the Battle of Ice. 

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23 minutes ago, The Drunkard said:

It would have to be Asha and Theon. Asha and her ironborn are going to fight for Stannis apparently, so they can give a frontline view of the battle. Theon, being a prisoner, is more likely to be held back with Stannis, and can therefore give that perspective.

I assume they'll also be the ones to witness the events at Winterfell, some period of time after the Battle of Ice. 

Yeah, makes sense. But I would love to have ears and eyes inside before the battle is done. 

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Thanks all, I’m in a Mormont mood and the frekking bird keeps asking for corn or snow or some such shite.

There is a problem. DwD was released in 2011. The WoW preview chapters, approximately 11 of them supposedly were cut from DwD.

It is now 2017. What is spoiler material? Does not the App have the chapters that have not been exposed on Martin’s blog?

I can understand keeping the book and the show separate.

There is going to be a Targ story release in October of this year as part of an anthology. So why can’t posters use the deleted DwD chapters that have been moved to Wow in general discussion?

rant off

 

Yep, Stannis has Theon and Asha. Yep, Theon and Jeyne (Lady Bolton) pretending to be Arya, not Sansa, escaped WF and Stannis is preparing to send fake Lady Arya Bolton to the Wall.

Back to the battle at the crofter’s village ----Asha has to be the PoV for that situation, right?

Who is going to tell the tale of what is happening inside WF? ---- Stannis lets Asha fight during the crofter’s village whoopla and then she somehow gets inside WF and gives a point of view?

Theon is chained to a wall at the crofters village and he is pretty useless at this point.

I’m probably going to get in trouble --- the Stannis cliffhanger ---- remember according to the pink/bastard letter ---- Stannis is dead --- and after LC Snow receives his pink/bastard letter the LC is attacked and presumed dead.

Full circle ---- splain to me the sequence of events because I am confudacated.

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Thanks all, I’m in a Mormont mood and the frekking bird keeps asking for corn or snow or some such shite.

There is a problem. DwD was released in 2011. The WoW preview chapters, approximately 11 of them supposedly were cut from DwD.

It is now 2017. What is spoiler material? Does not the App have the chapters that have not been exposed on Martin’s blog?

I can understand keeping the book and the show separate.

There is going to be a Targ story release in October of this year as part of an anthology. So why can’t posters use the deleted DwD chapters that have been moved to Wow in general discussion?

 

rant off

 

 

Yep, Stannis has Theon and Asha. Yep, Theon and Jeyne (Lady Bolton) pretending to be Arya, not Sansa, escaped WF and Stannis is preparing to send fake Lady Arya Bolton to the Wall.

Back to the battle at the crofter’s village ----Asha has to be the PoV for that situation, right?

Who is going to tell the tale of what is happening inside WF? ---- Stannis lets Asha fight during the crofter’s village whoopla and then she somehow gets inside WF and gives a point of view?

Theon is chained to a wall at the crofters village and he is pretty useless at this point.

I’m probably going to get in trouble --- the Stannis cliffhanger ---- remember according to the pink/bastard letter ---- Stannis is dead --- and after LC Snow receives his pink/bastard letter the LC is attacked and presumed dead.

Full circle ---- splain to me the sequence of events because I am confudacated.

I'm not sure what you mean by sequence of events... are you talking about Jon being shanked after announcing he's marching on WF and TWoW Theon I? 

Also not sure if the rant was b/c of the spoiler tags I used? I'm not sure of anything today, it seems! :D

In case it is, I used the secret eye thing b/c I *think* we're not supposed to discuss those sample chapters here. I'm not sure though, just being careful.  

Edited by kissdbyfire

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9 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Yep, Stannis has Theon and Asha. Yep, Theon and Jeyne (Lady Bolton) pretending to be Arya, not Sansa, escaped WF and Stannis is preparing to send fake Lady Arya Bolton to the Wall.

Back to the battle at the crofter’s village ----Asha has to be the PoV for that situation, right?

Who is going to tell the tale of what is happening inside WF? ---- Stannis lets Asha fight during the crofter’s village whoopla and then she somehow gets inside WF and gives a point of view?

Theon is chained to a wall at the crofters village and he is pretty useless at this point.

I’m probably going to get in trouble --- the Stannis cliffhanger ---- remember according to the pink/bastard letter ---- Stannis is dead --- and after LC Snow receives his pink/bastard letter the LC is attacked and presumed dead.

Full circle ---- splain to me the sequence of events because I am confudacated.


As I see it

Spoliers I guess (mainly speculation)

Spoiler

 

a ) WoW Theon 1 - hanging from the wall

b  ) Either 1 or 2 more WoW chapters likely from either  Theon or Asha, battle against the Frey forces at Crofters village, maybe Theon gets his time before the weirwood tree, Stannis uses Karstark raven to trick Ramsay saying the Manderlys were victorious and Stannis is dead 

c ) Ramsay believes Stanis has been defeated and pens the Pink letter - no chapter needed

d ) Last DWD Jon chapter where he gets stabbed

e ) Stannis secretly enters Winterfell under the guise of returning Manderly forces or Ramsay goes out to hunt for Jeyne and gets ambushed. This is complete speculation 


 

 

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Posted (edited)

16 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I'm not sure what you mean by sequence of events... are you talking about Jon being shanked after announcing he's marching on WF and TWoW Theon I? 

Also not sure if the rant was b/c of the spoiler tags I used? I'm not sure of anything today, it seems! :D

In case it is, I used the secret eye thing b/c I *think* we're not supposed to discuss those sample chapters here. I'm not sure though, just being careful.  

Umph, this is difficult. I separated the post into sections ---- my rant was about the confusion of whether or not people could use the DwD/WoW chapters in the general forum.

Which happened first ----- Jon getting shanked or Stannis being presented with his gift.

Edited by Clegane'sPup
grammer

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11 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Umph, this is difficult. I separated the post into sections ---- my rant was about the confusion of whether or not people could use the DwD/WoW chapters in the general forum.

Which happened first ----- Jon getting shanked or Stannis being presented with his gift.

TWoW Theon I happens before ADwD Jon XIII. And my take is similar to Makk's speculation. 

Just to be on the safe side...

Spoiler

Freys and Manderlys attack Stannis, and Stannis tricks Ramsay into thinking he's been killed and the Boltons won. I keep going back and forth on Ramsay joining the battle at the crofters village or not. But even if he does, it's no impossible task to dress a body up as Stannis and deliver "Lightbringer" to Ramsay. 

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm thinking Winterfell PoV, could be TreeBran, and RavenBran.

Or could be Melisandre, reading the flames, or some kind of Palantir-like device she keeps on Mance, her magical monkey. (ETA: Or maybe Ned, resurrected from Bones, gets himself a new point of view)

I don't have much faith in GRRM keeping any 'no more PoV' promise (did he actually make one? Can you quote him from any particular date or source for me?).

After Feast he announced something to the effect that he was going to only add one or two new PoV's a book from now on, then added four (not counting Pate and Varamyr) to A Dance with Dragons.

Admittedly Quentyn keeled over almost as soon as he had seen Volantis, Astapor, and Zahrina's. JonCon is  dying slowly of greyscale, but given he and Barry are both battle commanders and therefore naturally liable to die suddenly, adding greyscale is like giving him a reason to hang back and survive when he should have gone over the top with Aegon.

Melisandre seems to be securely with us, surrounded by supporters, spying her assassins in the flames the moment the notion comes into their heads, but whelping Stannis's daemon baby and spying on Bran and BR take a physical toll on her body, and if she tries that trick she did on Orell's eagle on the wrong raven, she might implode. If ever there was a character destined to be Nissa Nissa, she is it. So I suppose it is possible that all the new PoV's in Dance, are dead by the end of Winds.

The natural corollary is that Winds must have a Dothraki hoard of new characters, that no point of view will enjoy more than two chapters in that hundred chapter opus, and that fully half will be brand new characters. I've got a vague uneasy feeling I read something on his blog in the last year that was suspiciously positive about new characters, too - something like it was limiting to see the world from just one point of view, and how he needs points of view to converge so he can do what he does best - kill the 'main' character.

As it is, we have Sam and Pate converging on Oldtown; Brienne, Jaime, Catelyn converging in the Riverlands; Theon and Asha approaching Winterfell with Stannis; Davos and Melisandre both seem to be heading in an Eastwatcherly direction; Arianne and JonCon seem destined to join forces against Cersei; Sansa is poised to head either across the bite to White Harbour or down to Dragonstone or Kingslanding, or even Storm's End, depending on how Baelish wants to play her. Arya too could return to Eastwatch, White Harbour, or the Crownlands, but could as easily slip on a ship to Qarth, or Tolos, or to Ib on the Shivering seas. Or she could just stay in Braavos picking up moves and stray bits of gossip until the Winds of Winter freeze her solid, I guess.  

That only leaves Victarion, probably Aeron, surely Marwyn (communicating via glass candle to Sam and friends), and Dany scooting across their various seas to commune with Tyrion and Barristan in Meereen.

After the wars and the Long Night, it might be necessary to introduce new points of view just to have someone we know left to dream of spring.

Edited by Walda

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4 hours ago, Walda said:

Or could be Melisandre, reading the flames, or some kind of Palantir-like device she keeps on Mance, her magical monkey. (ETA: Or maybe Ned, resurrected from Bones, gets himself a new point of view)

While I was sitting there having lunch minding my own business, I opened your post, took a drink of water, gasped and started coughing uncontrollably :blink: ---- Mance, her magical monkey with a Palantir – like device, indeed! :laugh:

4 hours ago, Walda said:

After the wars and the Long Night, it might be necessary to introduce new points of view just to have someone we know left to dream of spring.

Whether I get to read DoS or not I know there was/is a dream floating around.

A Storm of Swords - Jon V           After. The word was a spear thrust. After the war. After the conquest. After the wildlings break the Wall . . .   His lord father had once talked about raising new lords and settling them in the abandoned holdfasts as a shield against wildlings. The plan would have required the Watch to yield back a large part of the Gift, but his uncle Benjen believed the Lord Commander could be won around, so long as the new lordlings paid taxes to Castle Black rather than Winterfell. "It is a dream for spring, though," Lord Eddard had said. "Even the promise of land will not lure men north with a winter coming on."       If winter had come and gone more quickly and spring had followed in its turn, I might have been chosen to hold one of these towers in my father's name. Lord Eddard was dead, however, his brother Benjen lost; the shield they dreamt together would never be forged. "

There are some salient points in your post. :cool4:

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On 8/7/2017 at 7:47 AM, The Drunkard said:

It would have to be Asha and Theon. Asha and her ironborn are going to fight for Stannis apparently, so they can give a frontline view of the battle. Theon, being a prisoner, is more likely to be held back with Stannis, and can therefore give that perspective.

I assume they'll also be the ones to witness the events at Winterfell, some period of time after the Battle of Ice. 

I would expect Stannis to keep Asha in the rear as prisoner and hostage to the Ironmen's fidelity. 

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On 8/7/2017 at 8:13 AM, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah, makes sense. But I would love to have ears and eyes inside before the battle is done. 

That would be Bran. But I don't think we'll get the account from him. 

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8 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

TWoW Theon I happens before ADwD Jon XIII. And my take is similar to Makk's speculation. 

Just to be on the safe side...

  Reveal hidden contents

Freys and Manderlys attack Stannis, and Stannis tricks Ramsay into thinking he's been killed and the Boltons won. I keep going back and forth on Ramsay joining the battle at the crofters village or not. But even if he does, it's no impossible task to dress a body up as Stannis and deliver "Lightbringer" to Ramsay. 

 

Thanks for help with that.

I seem to remember a theory <scratches head> that Stannis' wins at the crofters village and uses the Frey uniforms & Manderly men to get his people inside WF.

I am in agreement that Asha will be the PoV inside WF whether Stannis wins or not.

I'm also thinking that the ploy the northern clans used at Deepwood will come into play outside WF.

The northern characters story-line is what I am most looking forward to reading.The rest of it is meh.

20 hours ago, Makk said:


As I see it

Spoliers I guess (mainly speculation)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

a ) WoW Theon 1 - hanging from the wall

b  ) Either 1 or 2 more WoW chapters likely from either  Theon or Asha, battle against the Frey forces at Crofters village, maybe Theon gets his time before the weirwood tree, Stannis uses Karstark raven to trick Ramsay saying the Manderlys were victorious and Stannis is dead 

c ) Ramsay believes Stanis has been defeated and pens the Pink letter - no chapter needed

d ) Last DWD Jon chapter where he gets stabbed

e ) Stannis secretly enters Winterfell under the guise of returning Manderly forces or Ramsay goes out to hunt for Jeyne and gets ambushed. This is complete speculation 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting ideas. To bad people can't openly discuss them.

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For the battle at the Crofter's Village, it will probably be told from Asha's POV.  Most likely, she will be with Stannis and will be privy to whatever information he receives during it.  Assuming they win (or at least don't lose). I expect a move on Winterfell, which would also most likely be covered by Asha.  If necessary, GRRM will arrange things so that she can know what is happening.

As for inside Winterfell, I don't think we will get a POV, nor do we really need one.  At this point, the important players are Roose and Ramsay, who aren't getting POVs, and the Northern lords, who may be conspiring with each other.  In any event, both sides will be keeping their activities a secret, and GRRM probably wants to keep the whole thing under wraps until it sorts itself out, so any POV would probably either give away too much, or be essentially pointless.  Stannis is really the important player here, along with Asha and Theon, so telling it all from outside Winterfell makes sense.

A note on timing:  Jon's stabbing clearly comes some time after the Theon preview chapter.  In fact I anticipate that

Jeyne Poole will arrive at Castle Black shortly after the stabbing, and leave again before Jon can meet her.  Thus, he will think she is still Arya.

3 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I seem to remember a theory <scratches head> that Stannis' wins at the crofters village and uses the Frey uniforms & Manderly men to get his people inside WF.

Ruses like false flags and Trojan Horses are like mother's milk to the likes of Roose and Ramsay.  I can't imagine that they would fall for anything like that.  With respect to another possible theory,  I also doubt that there is a secret way into Winterfell, or it would have been used before now, either by Theon when he took it, or against him afterwards.  

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Posted (edited)

24 minutes ago, Nevets said:

<snip>

A note on timing:  Jon's stabbing clearly comes some time after the Theon preview chapter.  In fact I anticipate that

  Hide contents

Jeyne Poole will arrive at Castle Black shortly after the stabbing, and leave again before Jon can meet her.  Thus, he will think she is still Arya.

 

It's possible but I'd find it kinda anticlimactic... :dunno:

 

Quote

Ruses like false flags and Trojan Horses are like mother's milk to the likes of Roose and Ramsay.  I can't imagine that they would fall for anything like that.  With respect to another possible theory,  I also doubt that there is a secret way into Winterfell, or it would have been used before now, either by Theon when he took it, or against him afterwards.  

I am not so sure Roose/Ramsay wouldn't fall for the right ruse. They don't have to interact w/ anyone who is arriving, it's enough just to let them in. 

I've been on the fence irt a secret passageway or tunnel for ever... That said, if there is one I wouldn't expect Theon to know it/about it. 

Edited by kissdbyfire

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Didn't we already get a second-hand account of what's going on in Winterfell in Jon XIII? 

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Are you referring to the pink/bastard letter?

 

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I don't believe we will get a first hand look at the battle (assuming Stannis wins), though it will be Asha's POV which details the aftermath, and Theon's POV which shows them inside winterfell before he is either executed there for his crimes or miraculously saved by Bran.  Melisandre will be the POV that tells us what happens to Jon Snow, but I actually expect that we hear or see nothing directly at the wall until late in the book (if there is a book) - just reports from ravens and scouts coming to Winterfell.  If the PL is true it could be that Davos returns to the wall with Rickon and this is where we find out what happens with Jon, then Davos is a POV for the team heading to WF.

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