Obsidian Knight

About Edmure

43 posts in this topic

In the novels, last we see him, after lifting the siege at Riverrun, Jaime really does send him to the Westerlands to live as a noble hostage rather than a prisoner. We don't see him arrive, but Jaime sends a triple-strength guard to make sure he does, and when alking to the Blackwoods (I think it's them) later, he seems pretty confident when he says that Roslyn will be sent to join her husband in Casterly Rock as soon as she gives birth.

The fact that he's ended up in such different places makes me think Edmure isn't one of the characters GRRM included in the outline he gave D&D for S5-8, so he's probably not going to appear again. I suppose it's possible that we'll learn in TWoW that the Brotherhood or someone attacked the triple-strength guards and freed Edmure, and before the end of S7 we'll see Roslyn free Edmure from the cells, and the stories will reconverge from there. But it doesn't seem that likely.

I think show!Edmure is just going to starve to death in the cells off-screen and unmentioned, while the Riverlands falls apart because Cersei never bothers to hear the case of his likely dozens of female-line inheritance claimants or to appoint anyone to replace him, just as she still hasn't bothered to appoint a successor to Stannis in the Stormlands.

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1 hour ago, RhaenysB said:

Edmure is in the Frey dungeon and will remain there until Roslyn searches all the Frey corpses in the great hall, finds the key and free Edmure. 

Then he and Roslyn will rule the twins and riverrun and become loyal bannermen to Queen Jhiqhi of Storms End. 

He isn't in the game because the show runners only watched back season one and forgot that Walder put him in a dungeon in season 6. Also, Arya didn't update her BBC Westeros News app, she knew Robb's wife was pregnant but she didn't know Edmure was in the dungeon. Even though Walder just said it an hour before she killed him.  

Arya didn't hear WF saying Edmure was locked in a dungeon.

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14 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Arya didn't hear WF saying Edmure was locked in a dungeon.

I get that but Arya spent weeks at the twins. It's impossible that she didn't find out. 

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Everyone always forgets about Edmure :( he's that kind of a guy.

If he was freed, both he and the little fish that Roslin would give birth to could be used to fill the power vacuum in the Riverlands. But the show seems to have forgotten about the whole region in the same way they forgot about Stormlands and Dorne. Seriously, who governs Dorne? Is there anyone left in Riverlands? 

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7 minutes ago, Princess_of_Sunspear said:

If he was freed, both he and the little fish that Roslin would give birth to could be used to fill the power vacuum in the Riverlands.

I can't see Cersei using him for that. If she wanted a Frey on the seat, Walder has dozens of daughters scattered all over Westeros, some with adult sons, many married to Lannister loyalists or at least neutral parties. If not, there are thousands of nobles in the RIverlands, and I'm sure plenty of them would be fine if she wanted to just declare the Freys in abeyance and appoint someone new.

For Dany, he'd be a good candidate. He's got experience, there are probably some Tully loyalists left alive who'd be happy, and it's a nice symbolic gesture to set everything back the way it was when the last Targaryen was on the throne. But I don't think his half-Frey son is much of a bonus. I doubt any Frey loyalists grumbling about the Tully appointment would be mollified by the fact that his heir's mother was 20th in line for Walder's succession.

The problem is that nobody seems to care that entire regions are going without a government. Stannis is still Lord Paramount of the Stormlands. We haven't heard anyone report that everyone's starving in the streets and being killed off by bandits. So I can only assume that they've spontaneously created an enlightened left-anarchist utopia, with self-organized local syndicates working together through a free market. Either that, or they are starving in the streets and being killed off by bandits but nobody in either court or in the smallfolk rumor mill cares at all.

Dorne, on the other hand, I don't think has a problem. If they accepted Ellaria as Princess, and she's missing and presumed dead, then why wouldn't they just follow the usual rules of succession? It's not like Ellaria died without heirs like Stannis, or with such a complicated mess of potential heirs that you'd need a royal judgment like Walder. Her eldest daughter after Tyene is probably sitting on the throne, with a regent from one of the major houses advising her not to stay quiet and not remind either Cersei or Dany that Dorne exists.

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Posted (edited)

Though Edmure could be a valuable asset for Sansa and Arya as he is their uncle, with the death of Freys, there is no one could stand on his way to rally all the other river lords once more, they need to settle this problem in the TV show too. They need to kill him or they need to make his appearance as the Lord of the Trident. We need to know what happened to him after the Frey's death.

Edited by Erkan12

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My guess is that Lannister soldiers Arya met have him now. That'd be most accurate, if writers even haven't forgot about Edmure. 

 

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On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 6:55 AM, NickStark2494 said:

What happened to him is that he is in a cell at the Twins, according to Walder in the Season 6 finale, and because the showrunners are incompetent, Arya didn't free him and he hasn't been mentioned since.

It was already bad enough that they had Jaime not keeping his word about sending him to Casterly Rock and giving him back to the Freys, but this plot hole just makes the whole Edmure situation utterly disgraceful. Doubt we'll see him again.

Arya only killed the male Freys. The females are still there and no doubt have taken over. It is not in their interest to release Edmure, so he stays in the cells. From the Frey's point of view his son would become lord of both the Twins and Riverrun. They want to control that process, if they let Edmure out he would control that process and the Tulleys would end up being the lord of both houses.

Arya was not interested in the succession in both houses, she was just interested in mass murder (not all of the Freys were supportive of what Lord Frey did btw, and quite a number were just children as well).

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On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 4:32 AM, The Sunland Lord said:

My guess is that Lannister soldiers Arya met have him now. That'd be most accurate, if writers even haven't forgot about Edmure. 

 

In the books Jaime had him. Edmure's son was to be given lordship of a minor castle in Lannister territory after Edmure surrendered Riverrun to the Freys. In the mean time Edmure and Rosalynn (who was loyal to her husband and not part of the Frey plot) would be guests of the Lannisters. Their cooperation in securing Riverrun determined just how comfortable they would be as guests. Non-cooperation would mean the castle would be taken by force, and Edmure and Rosalynn would spend the rest of their days in an oubliette in the dungeons at Casterley Rock.

The Freys were not happy about that arrangement, but Jaime was not interested in their opinions on the matter. He just wanted the siege wrapped up as soon as possible so he could move on to resolve other outstanding disputes and rivalries in the area following the war.

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Posted (edited)

According Arya's logic which she presented in the exchange with Sansa, she should have killed Edmure for betraying the family. So he is probably in her bag.:D

Edited by Ashes Of Westeros

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3 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

According Arya's logic which she presented in the exchange with Sansa, she should have killed Edmure for betraying the family. So he is probably in her bag.

That demands the assumption that she actually knows that Edmure betrayed the family.

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3 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

That demands the assumption that she actually knows that Edmure betrayed the family.

Arya 007 Agent knows everything :ph34r: and she spent some time in Twins disguised as a servant

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Just now, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Arya 007 Agent knows everything :ph34r: and she spent some time in Twins disguised as a servant

I still have faith that Arya's strong empathy is intact and this is all an act for LF.  I don't think she actually holds Sansa responsible for the raven sent under duress, and I don't think she would impugn Edmure because he did it to prevent a massacre, and also did it under duress.

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3 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

I still have faith that Arya's strong empathy is intact and this is all an act for LF.  I don't think she actually holds Sansa responsible for the raven sent under duress, and I don't think she would impugn Edmure because he did it to prevent a massacre, and also did it under duress.

My assumption about Edmure was meant as sarcasm:D. I don't really think she has killed him. Sorry about this confusion

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1 minute ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

My assumption about Edmure was meant as sarcasm:D. I don't really think she has killed him. Sorry about this confusion

Sorry, I pride myself on catching sarcasm.  In these forums, one can never be sure.

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They will never conclude his story either. Such a shame how quickly this show is rushing the final seasons. 

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On 21/08/2017 at 9:19 AM, Princess_of_Sunspear said:

Everyone always forgets about Edmure :( he's that kind of a guy.

If he was freed, both he and the little fish that Roslin would give birth to could be used to fill the power vacuum in the Riverlands. But the show seems to have forgotten about the whole region in the same way they forgot about Stormlands and Dorne. Seriously, who governs Dorne? Is there anyone left in Riverlands? 

The loose thread of Dorne is the one that bothers me the most.  First of all, it was completely unbelievable to me that the nobles and common folk of Dorne accepted a bastard with no claim to the throne like Ellaria as their leader after she assassinated prince Doran, and secondly, if Ellaria had the support of the army and people, that Dorne just dropped off the map once Ellaria was captured.  Surely the Dornish would have been even more fired up to back Daenerys after that?

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On 21/08/2017 at 3:04 AM, falcotron said:

I can't see Cersei using him for that. If she wanted a Frey on the seat, Walder has dozens of daughters scattered all over Westeros, some with adult sons, many married to Lannister loyalists or at least neutral parties. If not, there are thousands of nobles in the RIverlands, and I'm sure plenty of them would be fine if she wanted to just declare the Freys in abeyance and appoint someone new.

For Dany, he'd be a good candidate. He's got experience, there are probably some Tully loyalists left alive who'd be happy, and it's a nice symbolic gesture to set everything back the way it was when the last Targaryen was on the throne. But I don't think his half-Frey son is much of a bonus. I doubt any Frey loyalists grumbling about the Tully appointment would be mollified by the fact that his heir's mother was 20th in line for Walder's succession.

The problem is that nobody seems to care that entire regions are going without a government. Stannis is still Lord Paramount of the Stormlands. We haven't heard anyone report that everyone's starving in the streets and being killed off by bandits. So I can only assume that they've spontaneously created an enlightened left-anarchist utopia, with self-organized local syndicates working together through a free market. Either that, or they are starving in the streets and being killed off by bandits but nobody in either court or in the smallfolk rumor mill cares at all.

Dorne, on the other hand, I don't think has a problem. If they accepted Ellaria as Princess, and she's missing and presumed dead, then why wouldn't they just follow the usual rules of succession? It's not like Ellaria died without heirs like Stannis, or with such a complicated mess of potential heirs that you'd need a royal judgment like Walder. Her eldest daughter after Tyene is probably sitting on the throne, with a regent from one of the major houses advising her not to stay quiet and not remind either Cersei or Dany that Dorne exists.

The Frey girls married to Lannister loyalists have to be either dead oror not significant enough, as Cersei has lamented to Jaime about the loss of Freys in S7E1, which means that there are immediate Frey pawns she could use. I doubt Freys had any powerful loyalists left, they were looked down on by most greater houses even before the Red Wedding. Does Genna Lannister exist in the show universe? She and her offspring would've been the best candidates for seizing the power in Riverlands, unless her sons were murdered with the rest by Arya/Walter. Also, in the books, Roslins full siblings were fully behind Robb and didn't know anything about Red Wedding and so had to be sent away on some pretext, so it's possible that at least one of her brothers is still alive- so her baby would be the best option for both Tully and remaining Freys. 

Riverland nobles with any significant power wouldn't touch Cersei and Jaime with a barge pole- most of them lost kin at the Red Wedding and as far as I remember, it was only the hostages that Freys held that ensured their loyalty. With all Frey men dead and Riverrun being in control of widowed Frey women and most probably staffed by servants who served under Edmure, they were probably invaded by the rest of riverlords the moment news of Walter and Co dying spread. I doubt Lannisters have left any significant forces to defend Riverrun from further rebellions.

Stormlands probably still have the noble houses sworn to Baratheons existing in some measure (lordship passing to cousins and third cousins if necessary), so they probably still have minor fiefdoms acting as local government for a given locality, but with Lord Paramount dead, they're decentralised.

I agree about Dorne- the next princess of Dorne is probably one of Oberyns daughters with someone acting as a regent. Even if Cersei wins the Iron throne/survives the white walkers, she wouldn't be in a position to invade Dorne. Daenerys they're fully behind in any case. I just find it ridiculous that Daenerys has forgotten about Dorne without appealing to the next sand snake in charge- I presume that they still have an army left to use, and it's not like it would be a stretch to send a raven to Sunspear and ask her to support the Dragon Queen. In the show she says that they lost Dorne- so I suppose either their military capability is exhausted and they're of no use, or the Dornish nobles have suddenly lost the lust for revenge they had a season ago (the same lust that drove them to support a coup against Doran).

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On 26/08/2017 at 7:42 AM, storm.131 said:

The loose thread of Dorne is the one that bothers me the most.  First of all, it was completely unbelievable to me that the nobles and common folk of Dorne accepted a bastard with no claim to the throne like Ellaria as their leader after she assassinated prince Doran, and secondly, if Ellaria had the support of the army and people, that Dorne just dropped off the map once Ellaria was captured.  Surely the Dornish would have been even more fired up to back Daenerys after that?

Exactly- surely they'd want to free Ellaria/Tyene or avenge her death? If they were so bent on revenge they were willing to support regicidal coup, why stop now? I can't believe Euron has destroyed their whole army - maybe they have no fleet left, but that in itself is implausible, how good is Euron that he completely destroys several fleets at a short period of time? Though considering his amazing teleporting skills and a near godlike immunity to poisons, I'm surprised he can't kill dragons by farting. 

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22 hours ago, Princess_of_Sunspear said:

I'm surprised he can't kill dragons by farting. 

Or with his big cock? LOL

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