princess brittany

sansa, arya, and dany

217 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, jcmontea said:

What would be the motivation for doing that? 

Bran saw the wall go down. First thing he does is probably tell Sansa and they send ravens to every Northern House. 

Dany and Jon show up with Dany's army to defend Winterfell. 

How does Sansa, Arya and Bran gain by cornering her? What does that say about them that they try and treat her like the man who destroyed their parents when all she has done is save their King and adopted brother and come to their aid? 

It is not about cornering her as much as showing her unity. I wasn't thinking about them treating her like LF, more like, in case Dany argues that they don't know her, Bran actually tells her that they do know her. Sansa may use Dany's achievements and private thoughts to actually convince the North to bend the knee on her (Sansa's) terms. I imagine they will be prepared for her. I sincerely doubt that, after LF, Sansa won't use Bran to make sure who Dany really is. 

As for motivation, I think Sansa would want to be equal to Daenerys, if not in position than in "power". Sansa's main goal throughout the past two seasons will be to make people listen and hear her. Undoubtedly, Varys, Tyrion and Jon will be happy to see LF gone, but that also means that Sansa is not just a girl whom you can easily ignore. So, if/shen, Dany comes with her titles and demands that everyone should bend the knee, Starks will show her teeth, enough to make her uncomfortable but to do what she wanted. They will rattle her just so they can bend the knee :D

7 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

@Risto It was a joke, I thought it was obvious.

Of course... I was just using it to start about Bran :D Sorry. 

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8 hours ago, Risto said:

It is not about cornering her as much as showing her unity. I wasn't thinking about them treating her like LF, more like, in case Dany argues that they don't know her, Bran actually tells her that they do know her. Sansa may use Dany's achievements and private thoughts to actually convince the North to bend the knee on her (Sansa's) terms. I imagine they will be prepared for her. I sincerely doubt that, after LF, Sansa won't use Bran to make sure who Dany really is. 

As for motivation, I think Sansa would want to be equal to Daenerys, if not in position than in "power". Sansa's main goal throughout the past two seasons will be to make people listen and hear her. Undoubtedly, Varys, Tyrion and Jon will be happy to see LF gone, but that also means that Sansa is not just a girl whom you can easily ignore. So, if/shen, Dany comes with her titles and demands that everyone should bend the knee, Starks will show her teeth, enough to make her uncomfortable but to do what she wanted. They will rattle her just so they can bend the knee :D

Of course... I was just using it to start about Bran :D Sorry. 

The problem in my view with this is that in order to be equal to someone in terms of power you actually have to be equal to them in terms of power. Power is not something you can posture your way around, especially not the hard power Dany rolls with.  

The reality is that Sansa is no where even close to Daenerys in terms of power. If Sansa is truly smart, she will recognize the real power disparity use Bran to understand the best way to influence Daenerys and develop a strategy that starts from there. 

The only power Sansa has is Bran and his visions who will give too shits about helping Sansa appear powerful and Arya in terms of assasination. But what does that do for you? Your going to threaten to kill Dany? Its an empty threat because in this moment she has the leverage since you need her armies and dragons. 

Also, this idea that Dany is going to ride in and demand they bend the knee is weird to me since I don't think thats how it works. Everyone in Winterfell bent the knee to Jon. Jon already bent the knee. Its done. Unless they are going to also rebel against Jon not much can be done there. And no one is going to rebel at this moment with the walkers through the wall. 

The smart strategy in my view is not to be anatagonistic or posture about being powerful when you are not, its to actually show yourself useful and worth listening to by being useful and worth listening to. Sansa will have a seat at the table as the Lady of Winterfell and Jon's sister. She should use it wisely. 

Daenerys is someone who likes to get peoples opinions and take on new advisors all the time. In just one episode she was asking Jon for advice. Bran should be able to tell Sansa that through his visions. If Sansa gives good advice she will be heard. Daenerys is actually desperate for an advisor who is more cynical/ realist right now. Should be easy for Sansa to slot into that role.

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22 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Also, this idea that Dany is going to ride in and demand they bend the knee is weird to me since I don't think thats how it works. Everyone in Winterfell bent the knee to Jon. Jon already bent the knee. Its done. Unless they are going to also rebel against Jon not much can be done there. And no one is going to rebel at this moment with the walkers through the wall. 

This.
Why would Daenerys expect anyone in the north to bend the knee for her? Jon was King in the North and when he bent his knee to Daenerys, he by extension made the whole north bend the knee to her. If they refuse Daenerys, they technically refuse Jons command as well -> rebellion. Won't happen during the current circumstances. 

The smart strategy in my view is not to be anatagonistic or posture about being powerful when you are not, its to actually show yourself useful and worth listening to by being useful and worth listening to. Sansa will have a seat at the table as the Lady of Winterfell and Jon's sister. She should use it wisely. 

Agreed. The AotD is walking towards them, trying to be antagonistic and pick a fight with your most powerful ally is stupidity on a whole new level. Even if Daenerys was gonna roll up in Winterfell all arrogant and petty (which she won't), it would be in the northerners best interest to try and appease her anyway. 

Daenerys is someone who likes to get peoples opinions and take on new advisors all the time. In just one episode she was asking Jon for advice. Bran should be able to tell Sansa that through his visions. If Sansa gives good advice she will be heard. Daenerys is actually desperate for an advisor who is more cynical/ realist right now. Should be easy for Sansa to slot into that role.

Sansa will also be one of the very few persons around Daenerys that has the best knowledge about Cersei and how Cerseis mind works, and unlike Tyrion, Sansa won't be blindsided by some strange nostalgic love for his family, and probably won't let herself be played by Cersei either, as Tyrion just was.
If/when Sansa comes to terms with Daenerys, she can easily become a very useful and important adviser to Daenerys.

:agree:

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4 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Also, this idea that Dany is going to ride in and demand they bend the knee is weird to me since I don't think thats how it works. Everyone in Winterfell bent the knee to Jon. Jon already bent the knee. Its done. Unless they are going to also rebel against Jon not much can be done there. And no one is going to rebel at this moment with the walkers through the wall. 

Because she already questioned whether the Northerners will bend the knee. She asked Jon about "those that follow him". Sansa is aware that each of the Northern and Vale lords commands an army and that they need to work with them. I don't think it is a done deal. I don't expect some schism, but there will be some convincing that had to be done.

And, they almost rebelled against Jon. And that was even before he bent the knee.

4 hours ago, jcmontea said:

The smart strategy in my view is not to be anatagonistic or posture about being powerful when you are not, its to actually show yourself useful and worth listening to by being useful and worth listening to. Sansa will have a seat at the table as the Lady of Winterfell and Jon's sister. She should use it wisely. 

I don't think she will be completely antagonistic towards Daenerys, but I believe she will be cautious. Sansa wants to be listened and I believe she had learned a lot with LF and how she has to trust her family. That said, I don't expect her just to fall in line (nor do I believe that will happen with Bran and Arya either). I do think they will be allies, sooner rather than later, but there are some issues they need to sort out.

4 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Daenerys is someone who likes to get peoples opinions and take on new advisors all the time. In just one episode she was asking Jon for advice. Bran should be able to tell Sansa that through his visions. If Sansa gives good advice she will be heard. Daenerys is actually desperate for an advisor who is more cynical/ realist right now. Should be easy for Sansa to slot into that role.

I believe that Sansa may have the important role in providing the logistic support from the background of battlefield. I think that in the war to come, Dany and Jon will lead the armies, while Sansa and Tyrion will be in background making sure the order is maintained.

I do believe they will work together. I just don't think they braid each other's hair the moment they set eyes on each other.

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20 hours ago, Risto said:

Because she already questioned whether the Northerners will bend the knee. She asked Jon about "those that follow him". Sansa is aware that each of the Northern and Vale lords commands an army and that they need to work with them. I don't think it is a done deal. I don't expect some schism, but there will be some convincing that had to be done.

And, they almost rebelled against Jon. And that was even before he bent the knee.

I don't think she will be completely antagonistic towards Daenerys, but I believe she will be cautious. Sansa wants to be listened and I believe she had learned a lot with LF and how she has to trust her family. That said, I don't expect her just to fall in line (nor do I believe that will happen with Bran and Arya either). I do think they will be allies, sooner rather than later, but there are some issues they need to sort out.

 

Yes, there will be a lot of drama between Jon, Dany, Sansa and Arya (and probably Bran as well).  That much has been set-up numerous times throughout season 7.  My guess is that both Sansa and Arya will be suspicious of Dany and protective of Jon.  LF made a comment to Sansa about how Dany is beautiful and unmarried and that Jon may be looking for marriage with her- I definitely think we will see both Sansa and Arya suspicious of Dany and Jon's relationship once that comes out.  

I think we will also see at least Royce, if not the majority of Northern lords, coming out against Dany and against Jon bending the knee to her.  I don't think that scene of Royce disparaging Dany and the Targs was included for no reason.  

 

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8 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

I don't think that scene of Royce disparaging Dany and the Targs was included for no reason.  

Well there was a reason even if we don't get to see a scene between Dany and Royce: He did say that "A Targaryen cannot be trusted" (albeit unwillingly) to a Targaryen. :P
 

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30 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

Yes, there will be a lot of drama between Jon, Dany, Sansa and Arya (and probably Bran as well).  That much has been set-up numerous times throughout season 7.  My guess is that both Sansa and Arya will be suspicious of Dany and protective of Jon.  LF made a comment to Sansa about how Dany is beautiful and unmarried and that Jon may be looking for marriage with her- I definitely think we will see both Sansa and Arya suspicious of Dany and Jon's relationship once that comes out.  

I think we will also see at least Royce, if not the majority of Northern lords, coming out against Dany and against Jon bending the knee to her.  I don't think that scene of Royce disparaging Dany and the Targs was included for no reason.  

 

It def. was not included for no reason. 

However, the reason it was included does not have to be foreshadowing Royce being hostile. 

It could have served no other function than to 1.) reinforce how the lords of Westeros are hostile to Dany - along with cersei's talk to the reach lords in the same episode - except for Dorne and Highgarden who had the crown declare war on them in 6x10. 2.) highlight what a big risk Jon is taking by going to meet with this woman who from everything he knows he should be highly warry of. 

Royce could end up being hostile. But if he is not, the scene still served its purpose. 

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3 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

Yes, there will be a lot of drama between Jon, Dany, Sansa and Arya (and probably Bran as well).  That much has been set-up numerous times throughout season 7.  My guess is that both Sansa and Arya will be suspicious of Dany and protective of Jon.  LF made a comment to Sansa about how Dany is beautiful and unmarried and that Jon may be looking for marriage with her- I definitely think we will see both Sansa and Arya suspicious of Dany and Jon's relationship once that comes out.  

I see some kind of power struggle between Jon and Sansa. They have been setting it up for a while. A rift between the starks seems like an unexpected twist. That also leaves room for Sansa being the younger queen that displaces cersei (although I don't really see this happening)

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1 hour ago, Apoplexy said:

I see some kind of power struggle between Jon and Sansa. They have been setting it up for a while. A rift between the starks seems like an unexpected twist. That also leaves room for Sansa being the younger queen that displaces cersei (although I don't really see this happening)

My own take but I could be wrong is this story is dead and was resolved in 7x07. The reason I think that is because:

a.) Arya would gut her if she went against Jon and she knows it. They reconciled so the chances of continued Arya/ sansa conflict seem very low. 

b.) its all about the costumes. Sansa was wearing a super fancy coat all season and was called out by arya for liking nice things. In the last episode she switched to a much simpler down to earth hoodie. I think that means something regarding her outlook.

Edited by jcmontea

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4 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

My own take but I could be wrong is this story is dead and was resolved in 7x07. The reason I think that is because:

a.) Arya would gut her if she went against Jon and she knows it. They reconciled so the chances of continued Arya/ sansa conflict seem very low. 

b.) its all about the costumes. Sansa was wearing super fancy coat all season and was called out by arya for liking nice things. In the last episode she switched to a much simpler down to earth hoodie. I think that means something regarding her outlook.

I think that generally speaking Arya and Sansa have resolved their issues and will side together.  I see them coming at this more from a protective place than a "power struggle."  I think both Arya and Sansa will have major issues with Jon bending the knee.  Of course, it won't last long as the White Walker threat becomes more imminent and real, but I just see an episode or 2 of this sort of "conflict" that D & D love to create between the Starks.

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1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

My own take but I could be wrong is this story is dead and was resolved in 7x07. The reason I think that is because:

a.) Arya would gut her if she went against Jon and she knows it. They reconciled so the chances of continued Arya/ sansa conflict seem very low. 

b.) its all about the costumes. Sansa was wearing a super fancy coat all season and was called out by arya for liking nice things. In the last episode she switched to a much simpler down to earth hoodie. I think that means something regarding her outlook.

It is quite possible that the Stark conflict is resolved. But it think HBO released the note that Jon sent to Sansa for a reason. But I could be wrong.

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17 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

It is quite possible that the Stark conflict is resolved. But it think HBO released the note that Jon sent to Sansa for a reason. But I could be wrong.

They did release the letter where Jon calls himself Warden of the North. Sansa didn't bring up to the lords at least on screen. And Arya and Sansa were in friendly terms so I don't think Sansa is planning a coup against Jon. Arya would kill her if she went against Jon. He's part of the pack. I think the Stark family will stick together and eventually accept Dany because she is Jon's aunt (future wife?)

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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Aye, season 7 was the season of Stark-infighting. By the end of season 7, it is resolved and the pack (including Jon) is united.
It would be strange (and stupid) if they started fighting again in season 8. There will probably be some verbal tension between some Stark-siblings and Daenerys, but it won't escalate to outright scheming and threats of killing.

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2 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

They did release the letter where Jon calls himself Warden of the North. Sansa didn't bring up to the lords at least on screen. And Arya and Sansa were in friendly terms so I don't think Sansa is planning a coup against Jon. Arya would kill her if she went against Jon. He's part of the pack. I think the Stark family will stick together and eventually accept Dany because she is Jon's aunt (future wife?)

 

2 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Aye, season 7 was the season of Stark-infighting. By the end of season 7, it is resolved and the pack (including Jon) is united.
It would be strange (and stupid) if they started fighting again in season 8. There will probably be some verbal tension between some Stark-siblings and Daenerys, but it won't escalate to outright scheming and threats of killing.

I'm not suggesting that Sansa and Arya would plot behind Jon's back. But I don't think the Starks/northern lords will accept Dany as their queen all that easily. Now if Jon were to marry Dany, that's another issue. They might be fine with the kitn sitting the throne.

I see Jon bending the knee creating much more than just verbal tension. Something more along the lines of fundamental disagreement. The Starks might probably stick together, but I see there being serious disagreement.

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35 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

 

I'm not suggesting that Sansa and Arya would plot behind Jon's back. But I don't think the Starks/northern lords will accept Dany as their queen all that easily. Now if Jon were to marry Dany, that's another issue. They might be fine with the kitn sitting the throne.

I see Jon bending the knee creating much more than just verbal tension. Something more along the lines of fundamental disagreement. The Starks might probably stick together, but I see there being serious disagreement.

I could see disagreement. But not to the point where they challenge or plot against Jon and his decision. The challenge I see is how do people have a lot of disagreement in the middle of fighting for their lives and for humanity without them looking like the biggest idiots or the worst human beings. 

To be honest, it feels like the whole incest bomb is nothing more - at least on the political not personal level - than something to delay the inevitable of someone suggesting hey you two love birds get married and lets resolve these political issues in one fell swoop.  

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9 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

I see Jon bending the knee creating much more than just verbal tension. Something more along the lines of fundamental disagreement. The Starks might probably stick together, but I see there being serious disagreement.

To what end? As Jon is so fond of saying... the REAL enemy is here. That trumps all. Any dissension will be swept aside quite quickly by the White Walker news Bran brings and the size of Dany's army & her dragons.

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