Vegas Shooting

[Kalbear]

As usual, the best predictor of mass shooters and terror actor is their predilection to be horrible to women.

[Larry of the Lawn]

54 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

Sorry, but no.  You cannot predict a mass shooter based upon whether he was rude to his girlfriend at Starbucks.

Sorry but no.  Treating women shittily still continues to be a common trait of mass shooters regardless of how you want to twist Kal's statement.  Would you care to offer a better predictor?

[Zorral]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/stephen-paddock-abuse-girlfriend_us_59d40429e4b0218923e60bcc?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

Two divorces too.

How many killings of women go down every years after she leaves an abuser?  How many times do others get killed too, before the cowardly abuser shoots himself when the cops roll in?  you could maybe try to google but these are stats that many like to hide, but talk to cops and they tell you how often this happens.

[Darth Richard II]

Ok, 1 Dr_Pepper, thats fucking awful and I hope you are doing alright.

2. fuck

3. Can you guys have the shitty argument somewhere else? For fucks sake.

[Fragile Bird]

I have been watching absolutely heartbreaking interviews with family and friends of people killed at the concert. CNN, no matter what you think of them, is doing a really good job on many aspects of the coverage. And Anderson Cooper and others are refusing to use the name of the killer, and using the names of victims instead.

12 of the weapons had 'bump stocks' which means the semi-automatic weapons were modified to keep them firing like an automatic weapon, effectively turning them into an automatic weapon. The kits are totally legal - making the modification is illegal, which is really a disgusting aspect of US law. I got into an argument with someone who loftily proclaimed they weren't engineered to be automatic weapons. Big deal. It's likely the reason he had so many guns, they heated up quickly and he had to switch guns, and some seem to have jammed.

The shooting time was a total of NINE to ELEVEN minutes!!! Almost 600 killed and injured in a max of 11 minutes....

The police found him quickly, because there were police already in the hotel on duty for an event at the hotel. They immediately decided to start searching. A security guard approached the suite but the guy had set up a camera to watch for approaching police, and he shot the guard, through the door. At that time the police decided to wait for the SWAT team, which took an hour. But in that time the shooting stopped. I assume the guy had already killed himself. The suite he has rented was huge, and there was a short hallway that approached the entry door, a real death trap, which is why they backed off.

The speed with which they found the guy really saved lives. The number could easily have been more than a thousand shot.

[Kalbear]

39 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

12 of the weapons had 'bump stocks' which means the semi-automatic weapons were modified to keep them firing like an automatic weapon, effectively turning them into an automatic weapon. The kits are totally legal - making the modification is illegal, which is really a disgusting aspect of US law. I got into an argument with someone who loftily proclaimed they weren't engineered to be automatic weapons. Big deal. It's likely the reason he had so many guns, they heated up quickly and he had to switch guns, and some seem to have jammed.

This is inaccurate. It's perfectly legal to make bump stocks. There are websites that actively market it. Anything that does not require mechanical changing of the firearm's action is legal, and bump stocks do not modify the firing mechanism.

The modification kits that turn a weapon from semiauto to full auto are not illegal exactly. Their use is illegal, but selling them is technically oddly quasi-legal. 

I say this not to be a nitpicker but because if I don't, some other gun afficionado will say this and then use it to show how you don't know anything and yadda yadda. It's almost as bad as if you used the term 'clip' instead of 'magazine' which is apparently like wearing white after labor day. 

[Kalbear]

Or, basically @Fragile Bird - this rant sums it up.

[Fragile Bird]

18 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Or, basically @Fragile Bird - this rant sums it up.

What's your complaint? I said the kits are legal.

My understanding is that the kits are perfectly legal but that installing the kit and using the gun is illegal. The kits can be easily purchased. Over and over there have been stories about people selling legal kits and explaining to people how to install them but then saying 'but if you install it the firearm is illegal', nudge-nudge-wink-wink.

Or is it another kit that's illegal, different from a 'bump kit'? Because weapons experts on CNN have been talking about how the kit is legal but the result isn't for the last couple of days.

You guys have weird laws. If the result's illegal, the kits should be illegal.

[Kalbear]

Yeah, those kits you're talking about are the mechanical ones. The bump stock isn't that type, and is actually got videos on their site showing people happily shooting it. 

[King Ned Stark]

The bump fire stocks, made by slidefire I think, are perfectly legal to buy and install on a firearm (without any kind of background check as far as I know, because it is classified as a stock and not a firearm).  The ATF ruled it legal because you still have to pull the trigger each time to fire the weapon, not just hold the trigger in.  AFAIK, it is spring loaded, and requires a different manipulation of the gun.  The shooter, I think, pulls forward on the barrel and the recoil of the rifle bounces the gun rapidly letting the shooter engage the trigger much faster than normal operation.

[Fragile Bird]

I had heard the stories about the shooter's father, the bank robber described by the police at the time as a psychopath, but I just heard now (or it just registered now) that he was finally arrested in Las Vegas.

We may never find out the 'why' but the picture so far does seem to include some kind of twisted family dynamic.

[Dr. Pepper]

30 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

Another possible "better predictor" would be an actual record of domestic violence against women.  If the shooter were younger, and actually had a record of domestic violence, you would have a stronger argument that he fit the profile of a mass shooter.  

I still don't know how useful it is to profile people in advance for crimes they have never committed; but assuming it is, Paddock does not fit this profile.  He is not a young man, and he has no record of domestic violence against women.

It's pretty fucking useful, especially for those women who are victims of this abuse.  

[King Ned Stark]

31 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

I'm told this technique can work on guns that are not necessarily designed to handle such a rapid rate of fire, and therefore tend to overheat.  Speculation goes was that this was why Paddock needed so many rifles.  After each burst, he might need to switch to a new rifle.

Yeah, that seems very likely, also failure to feed/eject possibly with such a rapid rate of fire.  I didn't really think about it, but yeah, one over heats or jams, just drop it and pick up another.

[Week]

2 hours ago, King Ned Stark said:

Yeah, that seems very likely, also failure to feed/eject possibly with such a rapid rate of fire.  I didn't really think about it, but yeah, one over heats or jams, just drop it and pick up another.

Really lovely conversation in a thread begun to contemplate the tragedy in Vegas and its victims.

[Zorral]

Interview in Billboard reports that the musicians playing the festival?  They can't leave, they can't get to their vans, buses, etc., they can't get their instruments because this a crime scene.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/country/7988859/las-vegas-shooting-jordan-mitchell-account

This is a catastrophe for large numbers of the musicians who aren't name acts -- they were on the secondary stage.   

Quote

Our van is still somewhere in the airport parking lot somewhere. I went back yesterday, but they wouldn’t let anybody within like a mile. My purse was in there, drums, amps, clothes -- everything’s in there. And we were supposed to leave yesterday morning to go back to Nashville. I have a day job I need to get back to -- we all do -- I’m a personal assistant and a bartender, I have two jobs. And I have a radio thing on Thursday. But I mean, it’s all over national news, people know. They’re like, “take all the time you need,” and I’m like, “I’m coming home, I just want to be home!”

 There are a lot of of people in this situation.  The scale of damage and misery he caused must make the shooter's miserable soul feel really really pleased.

[Dr. Pepper]

There are a lot of conspiracy theory memes going around on facebook.  ALL of my family members have been posting some speculating that there's a left wing conspiracy because there's no way for a person to get 400lbs of bags to a hotel room and then set up cameras in or around that room while staying in a casino.  I got kicked out of our group chat because I asked how much one cousin's checked luggage weighed (48 lbs, btw) and pointed out that it would be unusual to check in with a lot of 50lb bags).  Oops.  

 

There are a lot of news stories about shooters girlfriend.  It feels sort of icky how they all use her name in the headlines right now considering she was out of the country and despite have dual citizenship and apparently a lot of cash now, she chose to come back to answer questions.  Still, hoping there is some insight she can provide, though I doubt it.

[S John]

37 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

There are a lot of conspiracy theory memes going around on facebook.  ALL of my family members have been posting some speculating that there's a left wing conspiracy because there's no way for a person to get 400lbs of bags to a hotel room and then set up cameras in or around that room while staying in a casino.  I got kicked out of our group chat because I asked how much one cousin's checked luggage weighed (48 lbs, btw) and pointed out that it would be unusual to check in with a lot of 50lb bags).  Oops.  

 

There are a lot of news stories about shooters girlfriend.  It feels sort of icky how they all use her name in the headlines right now considering she was out of the country and despite have dual citizenship and apparently a lot of cash now, she chose to come back to answer questions.  Still, hoping there is some insight she can provide, though I doubt it.

Conspiracy theories started coming out right away.  I knew they would as it is a very convenient deflection from the elephant in the room, but it is absolutely maddening how effective a little misdirection is in terms of causing a relevant discussion to completely lose traction and go off the rails.  I'm also really, honestly baffled by the need of some people to fit EVERYTHING that ever happens into a neat little interconnected narrative as if nothing random, or senseless ever happens in life.  I really try to maintain an understanding of the thinking of the other side of the political spectrum by visiting some right-leaning discussion boards from time to time but I really might have to give it up soon.  It isn't good for my blood pressure.

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

There are a lot of conspiracy theory memes going around on facebook.  ALL of my family members have been posting some speculating that there's a left wing conspiracy because there's no way for a person to get 400lbs of bags to a hotel room and then set up cameras in or around that room while staying in a casino.  I got kicked out of our group chat because I asked how much one cousin's checked luggage weighed (48 lbs, btw) and pointed out that it would be unusual to check in with a lot of 50lb bags).  Oops.  

 

There are a lot of news stories about shooters girlfriend.  It feels sort of icky how they all use her name in the headlines right now considering she was out of the country and despite have dual citizenship and apparently a lot of cash now, she chose to come back to answer questions.  Still, hoping there is some insight she can provide, though I doubt it.

WTF is it with conspiracy theories?

The baggage thing - I have several times heard explanations on CNN from hotel people that showing up with ten heavy bags is not unusual to LV hotels at all whatsoever. There are so many conventions on all the time and people come in with equipment, goods for booths, booths packed up in bags (I've set up a few booths in my life), lots of changes of clothing etc. Many people are in for a weekend and then pack up for another show/conference/meet-up next weekend somewhere down the road.

[Kalbear]

4 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

WTF is it with conspiracy theories?

Humans have an innate desire to make random things nonrandom, and conspiracy theories are one way they do so. They're also difficult to disprove, as in general conspiracy theorists will simply suggest data that contradicts is planted to throw off the scent.

 

[S John]

When I travel for work I almost always have 7 or 8 large pelican cases of equipment that I bring into the room rather than leave in the truck.  Three of those cases are for a large data processing computer and the cases are definitely large enough for each hold 2 AR type weapons if they were not, y'know, full of computers.  

I've done this probably 50+ times over the past decade, all over the country, and nobody at any hotel has ever said anything about it.  Occasionally a guest will ask me what I'm dragging through the hallway, but the extent of hotel staff interest has been to help me find a cart.  Anyway, lots of personal experience in this arena that makes me sure that 'how did he get 10 guns into the room' as a point in favor of a wider conspiracy is extremely flimsy.