US Politics: Let's Discuss US Politics

[The Anti-Targ]

So pardons are on the menu, at least among the speculative media. I would be willing to lay a large bet on Trump pardoning a few people especially if those people have actual indictable / impeachment dirt on Trump. That's if I was a betting person.

However, as the Administration appears to be mostly playing the bad eggs, not associated with Trump or the campaign card, if the guilt, prosecution and punishment is able to be limited to the low hanging fruit on the rotten tree then I would think Trump might just let those people swing in the breeze.

IMO if Trump hands out any pardons then it says to me he's guilty of something that would be fatal to his presidency, even if it would only make it impossible for him to stand as the 2020 Republican candidate without him actually seeing the inside of a courtroom or a prison cell.

The 20% of the population who will always be true believers will see any prosecutions as a left wing conspiracy. And so pardons will not only be justified but required.

[Ormond]

11 minutes ago, maarsen said:

Nazis killed 6 million people during the time they were in power in Germany. Anybody dressing in Nazi uniforms and associated regalia in the present day does so because they identify with Nazi aims. As for a group of evil people, I cannot separate the individual act from the group.  In the same vein Charlie Manson did not actually do the deeds he is in prison for,  but he does carry the responsibility. 

 

I guess I wonder about such a statement because I think that many if not most people who call themselves Nazis today are also Holocaust Deniers, and so do not believe that the World War II Nazis committed genocide or killed 6 million people. So that may not be one of the "Nazi aims" they personally identify with, as reprehensible as the rest of their ideology is.

[OldGimletEye]

On 10/31/2017 at 7:30 PM, Martell Spy said:

The cowardice of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell
The country needs more from its leaders than silence.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/31/16579016/paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-cowardice-trump

Republicans and conservartives just love America so much. Yes they do.

They just love tax cuts (for the rich) even more.

[Rippounet]

On the topic of anger, racial resentment... A few words by Noam Chomsky on the subject (sorry I only found that part with what seems to be Portuguese subtitles, you can easily find the whole thing without them):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP4ilPS24uI

 

 

[Martell Spy]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/10/trump-shouldnt-be-glad-his-campaign-manager-was-arrested.html

Trump Should Probably Not Be Glad His Campaign Manager Was Arrested for Federal Crimes

 

 

[Martell Spy]

Quote

Wealthy individuals “don’t care that much about the individual rate so long as they get all the other goodies,” an administration official told Axios. That includes the pass-through loophole; wealthy earners could just establish corporations and enjoy a lower tax rate. So a good accountant can ensure that their client never sees a millionaire’s bracket.

Rich Americans Are the Winners of Republicans’ Mad Dash to Cut Taxes
The GOP's hasty plan, to be released Wednesday, looks to be a gift to the wealthy and a gut punch to everyone else.

https://newrepublic.com/article/145570/rich-americans-winners-republicans-mad-dash-cut-taxes

[DanteGabriel]

4 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Rich Americans Are the Winners of Republicans’ Mad Dash to Cut Taxes
The GOP's hasty plan, to be released Wednesday, looks to be a gift to the wealthy and a gut punch to everyone else.

https://newrepublic.com/article/145570/rich-americans-winners-republicans-mad-dash-cut-taxes

Remember, though, that it is just individual Republicans are trying to cut taxes for the rich. We cannot judge Republicans as a party for their tax-cutting ideology.

[Martell Spy]

Quote

Manafort is effectively being called out for laundering his alleged lies through his attorney. (It’s worth noting that it’s not Manafort and Gates’ attorney who is on the hot seat here. That’s largely because the crime-fraud exception applies when the crime in question involves lying to the government and your attorney is merely a conduit for those lies.)

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/10/why_a_judge_ruled_paul_manafort_isn_t_entitled_to_attorney_client_privilege.html

Lies My Client Told Me
Why a judge ruled Paul Manafort isn’t entitled to attorney-client privilege.

[Bonnot OG]

1 hour ago, maarsen said:

Nazis killed 6 million people during the time they were in power in Germany. Anybody dressing in Nazi uniforms and associated regalia in the present day does so because they identify with Nazi aims. As for a group of evil people, I cannot separate the individual act from the group.  In the same vein Charlie Manson did not actually do the deeds he is in prison for,  but he does carry the responsibility. 

Manhole, I like you and understand what you were trying to say, but the ideology of the group contributed to a death. The ideology of BLM did not.

That's just 6 million Jews. The number of overall victims killed in the holocaust were around 17 million. And that's not even touching upon the number of people (military and civilian) that died in the battles fought in the war.

The Russian Academy of Sciences back in 1995 reported that civilian deaths at the hands of Germans in the Soviet Union totaled 13.7 million dead. That's 20% of the 68 million people in the occupied USSR.

[maarsen]

45 minutes ago, Ormond said:

I guess I wonder about such a statement because I think that many if not most people who call themselves Nazis today are also Holocaust Deniers, and so do not believe that the World War II Nazis committed genocide or killed 6 million people. So that may not be one of the "Nazi aims" they personally identify with, as reprehensible as the rest of their ideology is.

I have often wondered about that. Personally,  I suspect that Holocaust deniers are lying to the new recruits to "sweeten the Kool-aid ". They certainly seems eager to enough to talk about genocide and "racial holy war". 

[GAROVORKIN]

37 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said:

That's just 6 million Jews. The number of overall victims killed in the holocaust were around 17 million. And that's not even touching upon the number of people (military and civilian) that died in the battles fought in the war.

The total death toll in World War II was 55 million .

 

[denstorebog]

Just to put things in perspective:

Nearly 80 percent of Trump voters say President Trump should remain in office even if it is proven that his campaign colluded with Russia.

So again, this is what we're up against. I don't really think we've realized it yet.

[OldGimletEye]

On 10/31/2017 at 8:26 PM, maarsen said:

I have often wondered about that. Personally,  I suspect that Holocaust deniers are lying to the new recruits to "sweeten the Kool-aid ". They certainly seems eager to enough to talk about genocide and "racial holy war". 

As not the brightest kid in class, as I sit back here doodling away and daydreaming, I have a bit of sympathy for when people do stupid stuff.

But, then there is doing stupid stuff and then there is doing bat shit crazy insane stupid stuff. It’s easy to forgive people doing stupid stuff. But not so much when, they are doing bat shit crazy insane stupid stuff.

And Holocaust Denial is bat shit crazy insane stupid stuff and not forgivable. If somebody says, “Oh, I’m a Nazi, but I’m not for that nasty ethnic cleansing stuff, cause it never happened.”, I just think they are deserving of my contempt as a Nazi that openly acknowledges what they did.

[Darth Richard II]

Eh, my admittedly limited experience with the Nazis of today tends to be that they not only acknowledge the holocaust, they think it was great.

[Bonnot OG]

3 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

Just to put things in perspective:

Nearly 80 percent of Trump voters say President Trump should remain in office even if it is proven that his campaign colluded with Russia.

So again, this is what we're up against. I don't really think we've realized it yet.

A lot of us knew they are like cult members when they ignored every criticism of him and deflected constantly.

[Dr. Pepper]

I've seen/heard it both ways.  Neo nazis and their ilk either acknowledge the holocaust and thought it was great and should be repeated in some way or they deny it and say Jews use the lie to try to garner sympathy and power.  Either way, the denial and the celebrating are both extremely harmful.

[Darth Richard II]

Also, whoever brought up the AI revolution last page, all I can think about when people bring that up is that scene in Ultron where he pretty much reads the internet and goes "Nope, fuck this shit".

[karaddin]

I mean, most deniers that I see seem to be pretty much making the argument that it should have happened, and are very much eager to make it happen, so their denial rings somewhat disingenuous. They just know it doesn't play well to the general public so dress their evil up. I see no reason for them to get even a shred of moral cover, their ideology resulted in genocide in the past and it will cause more if they're allowed to enact it again.

It's a mistake to ever think they're arguing in good faith, it's always an act of propaganda.

[Bonnot OG]

So the guy that drove his truck into those people on the bike path in Lower Manhattan is from Uzbekistan, a former Soviet republic located in Central Asia. So it totally makes sense that CNN has 3 white people on there talking about "jihadis in the middle east"............ smh.

[Darth Richard II]

What's sad is how the attack is barely news.