Battlestar Galactica: Frakking Hard Since 1978

[Shryke]

Well .... they just did. So yeah.

I mean, he points at the picture, that's either REALLY similar or exactly the same and says (paraphrasing) "This is the Temple of Aurora, as it's supposed to look on Earth".

Where's the ambiguity?

[Werthead]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1404754' date='Jun 18 2008, 22.13']I figured they just used the same prop. I think your WAY WAY over analyzing this.

He says "The Temple of Aurora on Earth". That it's the same picture as used before is, as I said, probably just reusing a prop.

...

Where's the ambiguity?[/quote]

Well, it's the prophecies of Pythia. It's the same book that Roslin and Elosha were consulting in S1, so of cours it's the same prop. However, when Lee and Starbuck are looking at the book and talking abou the Temple of Aurora, they're actually looking at a different picture. So there is no ambiguity, just slightly crappy direction which emphasised the wrong picture. We get a nice big close-up of the City of the Gods so the casual fan who can't remember Season 2 immediately thinks, "Ah, that's the Temple of Aurora," when Starbuck starts talking about it a few seconds later, whilst we [i]should[/i] have gotten a close-up of the picture that Lee and Starbuck are actually looking at whilst they're talking about it.

[url="http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/5/57/City_of_the_Gods.jpg"]Here[/url]'s the picture of the Opera House sitting in the middle of the City of the Gods on Kobol, from [i]Kobo's Last Gleaming[/i]. It's actually almost identically shot to the shot of the same picture in the same book in [i]Revelations.

[/i][url="http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e4/Werthead/?action=view&current=AuroraBook.jpg"]Here[/url]'s the picture of the Temple of Aurora on Earth that Lee and Starbuck are [i]actually[/i] looking at in the book seconds later in [i]Revelations[/i].

[url="http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e4/Werthead/?action=view&current=AuroaWreckage.jpg"]Here[/url]'s the wrecked building on Earth.

The building on Earth looks nothing like any of the buildings in the pics of the City of the Gods, even accepting that they've reused the prop and it's supposed to be the Temple of Aurora.

The [i]actual [/i]picture of the Temple of Aurora is, contrary to my initial impressions, a closer match for the building on Earth. The scale seems off - the temple in the picture looks quite small - but it does have a domed roof which looks like it could be the wrecked dome. It's difficult to tell for sure.


Anyway, Producer Mark Verheiden does a Q&A [url="http://www.comicmix.com/news/2008/06/18/battlestar-galactica-interview-mark-verheiden-on-cylon-amnesty-and-finding-earth/"]here[/url]. He basically pleads the fifth on all questions relating to New York, the Brooklyn Bridge and Earth itself. The only thing we really do learn is that Caprica-Six was included in Lee's amnesty, hence why she's down on Earth with the others.

[Shryke]

That just makes it even more concrete. That sure as hell looks like the wreckage of the picture Lee was talking about.

[Lord of Oop North]

Thanks for the pictures. I never got a clear look at the book when I watched the episode.

In my opinion, the building in the book and the wreckage are the same structure. They both have the same curved hip rafters, and jack rafters. Along with a similar hub. Judging by the steps pictured in the book, the scales seem to match up. It seems pretty conclusive to me.


Edited for clarity.

[Werthead]

Looking at the pic in the book, it looks like the domed structure is actually inside a much bigger building. That seems to track in the wreckage with the semblence of a larger, square structure with the domed section at one end.

Interesting.

Here comes the mind-scrambling bit though.

The Temple of Aurora was built on Earth [i]four thousand [/i]years ago. And it was clearly maintained and was still standing up until the time of the nuclear blast that levelled the rest of the city.

That to me says we are dealing with a rather different situation to what was originally the case. We may have to check with Brude and the Xs to be sure, but I'm pretty sure there isn't a four thousand year-old temple in Brooklyn ;) Or in any other major city in the world. So perhaps this city isn't any city in the world today we are familiar with. Maybe this is way, way in the future or else somewhere in the distant past (maybe Bob Dylan found the 'Watchtower' lyrics on an ancient dusty scroll in the [b]BSG[/b] universe?) because I can't see how we can resolve having a 4K-year-old temple with our modern society.

[Shryke]

Why would you think it was the wreckage of OUR society?

I'm pretty sure they got it the wrong way around. The 13th Tribe wasn't going TO Earth, they were coming FROM Earth. Or, at the least, returning to Earth.

"All this has happened before, all this will happen again"

What they've found is the wreckage of some previous Human vs Cylon style war. At least, imo.

[The Stranger]

i was personally hoping that the fleet would find earth, immediately be attacked by fearful earthlings wielding high technology, and in desperation nuke the planet to ensure their own survival, then occupy the sucker and hunt the surviving earthlings into oblivion.

[Paddy]

I was hoping for fighter jets as they flew through the atmosphere.

[Jaxom 1974]

See, I thought they'd end up finding Star Fleet and we'd have to answer the question, Enterprise vs. Galactica...

[Myrddin]

[quote name='Spiro T. Agnew' post='1404621' date='Jun 18 2008, 13.42']Even Zeus?[/quote]
Yes, he spends his days chain smoking while caring for patients.

:smoking:

[Bormon]

Ok, my newest crackpot theory. I haven't been reading the BSG threads regularly so I appologize if some of this has been covered.

First off.... THEY HAVE NOT FOUND EARTH! (more on that to come)

MY theory stems from Razor, where they found original cylons still doing experiments to create a hybrid. Why do that if they already have perfected it? The answer is... they aren't the same cylons.

[i]All this has happened before[/i]

This isn't just a re-envisioning of BSG.... its a continuation.

The planet they found is Terra from the original series. A planet on the brink of global war. But its a step closer to Earth.

I also believe there are actually 13 cylons. There are 7 known "skin-jobs" 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 then the final 5. BUT why skip 7? There are two possibilites 7 was a failed cylon, or 7 is the cylon that first became more than its programming. It created the 8's .... and the 8's are decidingly different. Then they created the final 5 and placed them into colonial society, to facilitate that transition to earth to start the cycle again.


Anyway thats my crackpot theory.

[TrackerNeil]

[quote name='davos' post='1404619' date='Jun 18 2008, 15.42']What is driving me the most crazy is the overuse of gimiky writing, such as working the storyline so that we come to every season or half season break with some huge plot twist right at the very end, leaving us holding our collective breaths for the six months waiting to find out what happens. Yeah, it works. yeah, most of the twists have been decent done. After a while it just begans to feel artificial and forced. I almost didn't want to watch this past episode because I knew they would drop in some momentous revalation right at the end to leave us hanging for half a year or more.[/quote]

I agree with this in part. I feel like Season Four has been kind of a cock-tease. If you think about it, nothing much has been revealed that we didn't already know. We still don't know why the Final Five are different from the other Cylons, where Kara Thrace was for two months, why she has a brand-new viper, or anything about Earth except that it's even crappier than New Caprica. We don't know the source of the music, the identity of the last Cylon, or the meaning of the "all this has happened before" stuff.

My partner was big into improv some years ago, and he said that one lesson they learned quick was not to let mysteries linger too long. The more time something goes unexplained the bigger and more extraordinary it will become, until almost nothing that's revealed could ever possibly be as exciting as what the viewers are expecting. For example, the last Cylon really can't be just Gaeta or Dualla, because we've already seen the oh-my-god-this-one's-been-a-Cylon-all-along thing. It also can't be a heretofore unintroduced character because then we'll say, "Well, we could never have known that." And if turns out to be something like "The fifth Cylon is ALL of humanity!" that's just weird and completely off-base.

Don't get me wrong; I thought some of the stuff that happened this season was great; for example, I nearly got chills at Roslin's expression when she ripped off Baltar's bandage. But RDM is building an awful lot of expectations, and I don't see how he can satisfy them.

[Shryke]

They didn't reveal alot this (half) season. What they did was explore the stuff they'd already revealed.

What are the Four new Cylons like? How are they reacting to the situation? etc.

And then there was the whole "Pulling the humans and Cylons together" thing.

[Sad King Billy]

re: all of this has happened before: my theory is that humanity is a ping-pong ball in a game between the gods (or a playball of faith, or simply in a self-inflicted circuit, or ....) Humanity is on earth. There is only the belief in one God. They create servants who get sentient and try to usurp humanity's place. Earth gets (partially at least) destroys. Humanity flees to the colonies, is persued by their creations. Sites like the Eye of Jupiter are their version of New Caprica. Along the road, someone (another Gaius Baltar) says God isn't real, there are many gods but they aren't all-powerful. Humanity gets to the colonies, merges/destroys/is replaced by their creations. 1000 year later, humanity creates servants, they rebel, try to usurp humanity, humanity flees to earth, belief in one god, gets to earth, merges/destroys/is replaced by their creations. 1000 year later, creations, flees, multiple gods, colonies. Ping: earth. Pong: colonies. Ping-pong, Ping-pong, Ping-pong, Ping-pong, etc, at infinitum.
This is just another iteration of the same loop. Or, as Leoben said, in season one: "Each of us plays a role; each time a different role. Maybe the last time I was the interrogator and you were the prisoner. The players change, the story remains the same."

[mcbigski]

[quote name='Bormon' post='1405870' date='Jun 19 2008, 10.08']I also believe there are actually 13 cylons. There are 7 known "skin-jobs" 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 then the final 5. BUT why skip 7? There are two possibilites 7 was a failed cylon, or 7 is the cylon that first became more than its programming. It created the 8's .... and the 8's are decidingly different. Then they created the final 5 and placed them into colonial society, to facilitate that transition to earth to start the cycle again.[/quote]

My favorite theory circa season 2 or so was that Gaeta wasn't a human. He wasn't a skinjob, exactly, more like a physical avatar of God, sent to help guide the remnant of humanity to its destiny. He's the guy that plotted all the jumps, controlled traffic within the fleet, reported on Dradis contacts, gave Boomer the coordinates that led them to Kobol etc. At the time, I was thinking that God was just using the skinjobs as patsies and that they weren't actually the beneficiaries of The Plan - which had something to do with hybridizing the humans and Cylons to break the power of both predestination and the Greek pantheon.

Oddly, my friend the other night said essentially the same thing about Starbuck - ie that she's not the final Cylon per se, but she's of a similar order of being to them, somehow helping God's plan come to fruition.

Makes me wonder - are the final five really Cylons at all, or some sort of beings like the Maiar, who came to the fleet in order to guide events towards God's end, and the Cylons have just been tricked into thinking they are somehow related to them?

[Tb0ne]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1404192' date='Jun 18 2008, 08.59']There have also been arguments put forward that the city could be Tokyo, Sydney or Vancouver. Vancouver is possible because they filmed the shot near there and it might be a tip of the hat to the city that's hosted the production for five years. No idea if there's a bridge like that near Vancouver.[/quote]

As much as I would love that I don't think it is Vancouver,

Vancouver's most famous bridge is called Lion's Gate (Bridge) but I don't think what we saw in the last scene looks like it. Lion's Gate is thinner at the base and the bridge span is too low even if the sea level rose. The city across the water would be downtown Vancouver but I can't see Stanley Park which would be on the right (not to mention I can't see any cliffs where they should be). Showing Vancouver with ruined buildings instead of the remains of trees (in Stanley Park) would be like showing a future NYC with skyscrapers in Central Park. And it also doesn't help that that the city in the last scene looks like it's on an island.

They would be standing on the shore seen across water to the right: [url="http://forrestcroce.com/Images/LionsGateBridge.jpg"]http://forrestcroce.com/Images/LionsGateBridge.jpg[/url]

They couldn't be on the opposite shore because there would have to be some rather large mountains in the background and the rest of the landscape just doesn't fit at all.

This just doesn't work either: [url="http://whatiscivilengineering.csce.ca/images/Structures/Canadian/Lions-Gate-Bridge-BC1.jpg"]http://whatiscivilengineering.csce.ca/imag...-Bridge-BC1.jpg[/url]

There is another bridge called the Iron Workers' 2nd Narrows to the east but it wouldn't work either for a variety of reasons (the ruined city looks like it's on an island, the shape of the bridge supports, etc).

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironworkers_Memorial_Second_Narrows_Crossing"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironworkers_M...arrows_Crossing[/url]


The Burrard Street Bridge might work as it's supports resemble what we saw in that scene but the terrain doesn't fit all that well (The shore is further away than it should be and DT Vancouver isn't on an island). [b]Update[/b]: Checking some other pictures of the area it might be possible but only if the sea level is slightly higher and the two structures to the right of the main landmass/cityscape (under the bridge and in the distance) are indicating a shoreline that we can't see because of the heavy fog. I would have to go down there and look around to be certain (if I do I'll take some pictures).

Panorama of BSG's Earth : [url="http://www.imgdump.info/img-bsgpano02-129553.htm"]http://www.imgdump.info/img-bsgpano02-129553.htm[/url]

They would be standing in Vanier park or the Pacific Space Centre near the bottom left of this map: [url="http://www.luxsuites.ca/new_images/LuxSuitesMap3.jpg"]http://www.luxsuites.ca/new_images/LuxSuitesMap3.jpg[/url]
Also, Granville Island would have to be underwater and the (Granville) bridge would have to be completely destroyed.

[url="http://www.balsabridge.com/images/bridge-van/image001.jpg"]http://www.balsabridge.com/images/bridge-van/image001.jpg[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:399540467_8e281c0000_o.jpg"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:3995404...e281c0000_o.jpg[/url]
[b]Bridges in the Vancouver area[/b]: [url="http://www.balsabridge.com/bridge-van.htm"]http://www.balsabridge.com/bridge-van.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.mosquitocreekmarina.com/images/map_l.jpg"]http://www.mosquitocreekmarina.com/images/map_l.jpg[/url]

[Werthead]

Video blog [url="http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?clip=11&sub=blog"]here[/url] on the location where they filmed the end of [i]Revelations[/i] and the start of the next episode. No real spoilers and the crew aren't really saying much, but some interesting tidbits, and a rather painful bit where Eddi Olmos smacks his head on a camera crane.

[Wouter]

The city could possibly be supposed to be a futuristic (or Caprica-style) Rome or Athens or something like that. Those are the Earth cities where you'd expect to find very old temples (apparently there is or was something called a temple of Aurora in Rome, but this may not have anything to do with the show - there were lots of temples in Rome).

[Werthead]

Composer Bear McCreary [url="http://http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=396"]confirms[/url] (in the comments section) that he is reusing some more original music from the original series. He wouldn't say what it was, only it's not the main Colonial theme (which has already appeared twice) or the Cylon theme. It'll appear later in Season 4.5. There's also a major music-based episode coming up. Not a musical or anything, but an episode in which music plays a major role.

Interestingly, he also comments on the computer game series [b]Homeworld[/b] after someone drew his attention to it:
[quote]I’ve never actually heard of Homeworld. But, that clip you posted look pretty awesome. It’s funny that it came out so long ago and yet clearly is similar in tone. I recently re-watched “Blade Runner” (it had been about 10 years for me) and suddenly realizes how much the new BG owes to that film, although probably not as coincidentally as Homeworld. :)[/quote]

[b]Homeworld[/b] has some of the best music ever heard in a game, most notably the stunning use of [i]Adiago for Strings[/i].

[Werthead]

Oh my God. I thought [url="http://jimsmash.blogspot.com/2005/10/monkey-space-dog.html"]this[/url] was just an urban legend.

That explains why the original series fans hate the new series so much. Not enough [b]MONKEY-SPACE-DOG[/b] action for them!