NFL offseason II

[Mexal]

[quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1436992' date='Jul 11 2008, 17.01']I'll answer my own free agent question: former Bengal Chris Henry![/quote]

He'll be suspended for the year.

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='Mexal' post='1436993' date='Jul 11 2008, 17.01']He'll be suspended for the year.[/quote]
Damn it! What a way to spoil my scenario-building fun.

[Mexal]

[quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1436994' date='Jul 11 2008, 17.03']Damn it! What a way to spoil my scenario-building fun.[/quote]

I can't help it. I'm a Bengals fan :(

[Quijote Light]

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1436928' date='Jul 11 2008, 15.28']Ok, now that that's out of the way...Im stoked. Al Davis is actually considering stepping down from the GM type role of the Raiders and allowing someone to come in and make player personnel decisions.

YW[/quote]
I hope this doesn't mean he'll stop attending games. There's somethin oddly comforting when they show his ghoulish figure overlooking the field.

[quote]I never said they weren't questionable.

But questionable WRs with a Hall of Fame QB is better than questionable WRs with a 2nd or 3rd year unproven QB.[/quote]

I'm actually hoping for a horrific, crash-and-burn season for Favre if he comes back anyways. Wherever he ends up, although I agree with Kal and pray that the Bears don't go after his ass.

[Space Bandito]

Just when I thought I was out . . . Brett Farve pulls me back in! Anyway I guess the hot topic is, who wants him or where does he end up? I agree with who ever said Minn. I just see other teams developing QB's. Either that or maybe Tampa. Other teams seem to have some type of plan for the future. I don't know about salary caps.

I doubt the Bears would go after Farve. I just don't see him running his offense (The Farve and Poop) with that coach.

Just a few weeks away from wall to wall coverage on the NFL network of guys running around in shorts!

[Space Bandito]

Oh and can I just add. I'm sure we all know, but ESPN Farve love has reached a new level. Beyond Manning love, beyond Brady love. It has peaked. The talking heads were explaining today that the management had no choice but to give in to his demands as the people of Green Bay loved Farve.

Business is Business. Let me mention a few names. Kosar, Montana, Kurt Warner, Drew Bledsoe, umm Trent Dilfer. :P (it was a tough choice at the time). I'm sure people can add more. You got to say good bye some time.

[Swordfish]

[quote name='Space Bandito' post='1437533' date='Jul 12 2008, 08.04']Oh and can I just add. I'm sure we all know, but ESPN Farve love has reached a new level. Beyond Manning love, beyond Brady love. It has peaked.[/quote]

Oh, I don't know....

I'm prepared to believe that as bad as it is, it could get much much worse.....

[Andrik the Unsmiling]

I can't see the Packers letting Favre play for another NFC team... the PR damage is already bad enough, think of how much worse it gets if he beats them in the playoffs (or worse, keeps them out of the playoffs by helping Minnesota or Chicago win the division).

So, assuming Green Bay were to decide to reinstate and then trade him (thus assuring that he doesn't go to a conference/division rival and that they get something back for him), where in the AFC could he land? That narrows things down a lot, IMO, because there aren't very many teams in the AFC that fall into the "wow, they could be a contender if they only had a QB" category. In the AFC it seems like teams are either so bad that eh addition of a QB like Favre wouldn't really help that much (Kansas City/Miami syndrome) good, but already have their guys (New England, Indy, Jacksonville, Pittsburgh) or are maybe up and comers but have a young QB they're looking to build around (Denver, Buffalo, Cleveland).

In fact, to me, it seems like there's only one CLEARLY good fit in the conference for Favre, and that's New York. From a football standpoint, there's no question that Pennington is on shaky ground as the starter and Clemens has yet to prove much of anything. This was a team that was awful last year but made the playoffs two years ago so maybe there could be some hope of a rebound. On top of that, they're now playing second fiddle in the Big Apple to the G-Men more than ever given the recent Super Bowl victory. "Broadway Brett" could go a long way towards drawing some attention and fans back from their in-town rivals. So my prediction: Brett's a Jet by the middle of training camp.

[Bronn Stone]

While the Packers may not want to see Favre elsewhere in the NFC, they may end up with little choice. Leaving him on the roster as a backup would be a disaster for all involved, Aaron Rodgers worst of all. They know that and Brett knows that. He can call their bluff on that one if he so chooses.

Their only hope is to trade his rights to another team and hope that he decides to retire rather than accept. Perhaps a deal with a conditional draft pick - a #7 if he retires after being traded, a #5 if he plays and a #1 and #2 if the other team releases him to become a free agent or trades him to another team. That way the Packers have assurance that he doesn't end up on the roster of a division rival.

[Gold Storm]

There is not a snowballs chance in hell that Farve will want to comeback to be the backup QB. I think the Packers are telling him that he retired, and to stay retired and enjoy some golf. I do not see why any other team would want too trade for him. He will want to be the starter, but it would almost be imposable to input new an offense that Farve likes with a new team and get used to his WR and O-line.

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='Gold Storm' post='1437700' date='Jul 12 2008, 14.12']He will want to be the starter, but it would almost be imposable to input new an offense that Farve likes with a new team and get used to his WR and O-line.[/quote]

As others point out, Favre would most likely start at QB for any team in that division other than the Packers.

[Gold Storm]

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1437747' date='Jul 12 2008, 15.32']As others point out, Favre would most likely start at QB for any team in that division other than the Packers.[/quote]
There would be a lot of pissed of fans if he played for the Bears or the Vikings. Yes he is easily the best QB in that division, but it would still be very hard just to plug him into the offense. His QB style is very different from almost ever other QB in the NFL. He would have too learn a new playbook and get in with his new team in training camp. I do not know if he would start or play in that many games during the preseason.

[Bormon]

With training camps quickly approaching, what are going to be the biggest position battles?

[Ser Paladin]

[quote name='Bormon' post='1438900' date='Jul 14 2008, 11.09']With training camps quickly approaching, what are going to be the biggest position battles?[/quote]

With multiple RB backfields, are there even RB position battles anymore? Or more along the lines of "Chester Taylor will start until AP is ready to take over". Maybe New Orleans, because McAllister is coming back from injury and no one else will step up.

Felix Jones will apprentice for Barber, and be a change of pace guy. Ditto Matt Forte, and Mendenhall. Kevin Smith and Jonathan Stewart will start in their frst games, but Tatum Bell and Williams will share carries with the rookies.

QB is more fun. SF, KC and the Ravens are wide open. Matt Ryan is another apprentice deal, and will eventually start in Atlanta.

* Forgot McFadden. He starts on day 1 too.

[Fez]

[quote]With training camps quickly approaching, what are going to be the biggest position battles?[/quote]

QB for the Jets. Considering how much they went out and spent this offseason, its a real shame that there is no clear starting QB, and the two options aren't very good. If nothing changes though I think Pennington will end up winning the spot, he has proven he can win at times, and with an actual offensive line he could actually use those football smarts I know he has.

However if by chance the Packers do put Favre on the market, I think the AFC price tag wouldn't be so bad; and unless they meet in the Superbowl the teams won't meet again for until 2011, by which time Favre should be retired for good, so Favre as Jets QB I'd say would be one of the more likely options should he get on the market. And should he be available, the Jets should snap him up a heartbeat, use him this year, draft a QB in the upper rounds, and hope that he'll be willing to stay around another year or two so whoever is drafted has time to develop.

[Mexal]

Ok. It's time for my pre-training camp Bengals report. I know that no one here really cares since I'm the only Bengals fan but I don't really care. It's a football thread so I'm going to talk football, even if it's with myself.

There were three problems that plagued the Bengals last year.

1. Off the field distractions.

This has been rectified by dropping Henry and Thurman. We chose one problem child during the draft in Jason Shirley but he was a 5th round pick so to me, it's worth the risk. Ahmad Brooks is still a risk to do something stupid and anyone can get a DUI, but as a whole, no Bengal has been arrested in the offseason while several other teams have had players that had been. Chad Johnson was a major problem but he's not as much a distraction as the media made him out to be. The bottom line is that he'll play the game because he loves it too much and no amount of whining is going to change that. The Bengals took the right stance in standing up to him and now players understand that causing problems isn't going to get you anywhere. He's saying all the right things at the moment and the players ignored the situation by focusing on their work outs.

2. The offenses inability to convert 3rd downs nor score inside the red zone.

This was a major problem and it was one that is often overlooked due to reason #3. This had to be the most frustrating part of the season last year for me. We had so much talent yet when it came down to the big plays, we fucked up somehow. Either Palmer was off, the offensive line fell apart, the wide receivers dropped passes or ran wrong routes...it was never just one thing. However, we now have a fix. We have a TE that is capable of stretching the field and working the middle in Ben Utrect and we have Chris Perry back. The latter is a HUGE deal when we consider 2005 where he had some 50 catches, 30+ of them for first downs. He's a fantastic option out of the backfield and he'll be utilized much better this year. We can now run two TE sets which should also help. The final thing that should work out well is that our offensive line won't be decimated. I think we had 9-10 different offensive line combinations last year. That's just plain ridiculous.

Carson Palmer is running a camp with his WR out in CA as we speak. They're doing 5-6 hours a day and working very hard. TJ said he hasn't been so tired in a very long time and that's something I like to hear. We lost Chris Henry but gained two WR that I'm very excited about in Jerome Simpson and Andre Caldwell. Simpson is a small school guy with the biggest hands and vertical jump in the draft (for a WR). He has fantastic body control, ala Chad but lacks the refined route running of someone who played for a big time school. I think he'll be great, though maybe not right away. Caldwell, on the other hand, is very polished and should be our 3rd WR right at the start...not to mention a punt returner which is something we really need.

Rudi Johnson is another wild card though I do expect him to bounce back. He had two problems last year. One, the offensive line wasn't opening up good holes and that goes to a lack of chemistry since they were constantly switching the grouping. Two, he had lost weight so he tried to be more elusive and that's just not his game. So in the off season, he spent a shitload of time in the gym and now has put on 10 lbs of upper body muscle so he weighs around 225, where he was at during 2005. If he attacks the whole and runs, he'll do what he did then. If he continues to use his pitter patter shit when coming up to the whole, he'll fail. Plus, with the addition of Perry in the backfield, Rudi won't be given outside run plays which he's just no good at. Perry, on the other hand, is fantastic running around the corner and could be that change of pace/home run hitter that is needed.

So all in all, I expect our offense to be very good. I see them back to the level of 2005 and even potentially better. The pieces are in place...it's just up to the execution.

3. The infamously bad Defense.

This is obviously the sticking point. It's what gets talked about in the media non stop and for good reason. Our defense sucks...or at least it has sucked in past years. A lot of that can be attributed to our lack of aggressiveness in free agency, our pure luck in draft choices (Pollack, Thurman, Brooks, Rucker, Williams and Ratcliff) and a very poor scheme.

But all that's changed, at least I hope so. Note that this little report is before pre-season in which it's almost a guarantee that one or three of the starters will go down with a season ending injury. It has happened every damn year.

Our weakest part is the defensive line. We didn't get Sedrick Ellis and as a result, everyone who talks thinks our draft was poor. I disagree. Ellis would have been great and he would have really helped our defense. However, we did get Keith "The Body" Rivers. The guy who is supposedly built like a Greek Adonis. Can't go wrong there right? Last year, we had one game where we only had 2 LBs that were able to play and neither of them was on our opening day roster (it was against the Pats). We were decimated by injuries. Rivers was a necessity, not a secondary pick because we didn't get who we wanted. It's the reason they didn't try to trade in front of the Saints. He was far and away the best LB in the draft and it was a position we needed as badly as DT. In the third round, we were able to get Pat Sims who I really like and who I think can be as productive as Ellis. He didn't get as much hype, but that's mainly cause people questioned his desire to play (he took a year off after his sister, who he was very close to, died). When he did play though, he was very productive with a very strong push up the middle. I think he'll be huge for us and I like the idea of getting both him and Rivers, two areas we needed to improve.

That leaves our LB core at Rivers on the weak side, Dhani Jones (who played great last year) in the middle and Ahmad Brooks on the strong. Brooks is freakishly athletic and if he can show any of the skill he showed in the first game against Baltimore before injuring himself, he'll be a force. I like the idea of those three starting and I love the idea of Jeff Fitzgerald (former Ravens LB coach) coming in and turning that core around. The depth is lackluster but Jeanty played well for us 2 years ago and Henderson was very productive in college. So we'll see.

Back to the defensive line. We still lack a stud pass rushing DE but I think Odom and Geathers will be serviceable, especially if Zimmer's plan comes to fruition. His goal is to blitz from 100 different looks ala Baltimore. To do this though, he needs cornerbacks who can play bump and run and he has them. Leon Hall and Jonathan Joseph are the studs of this defense and everyone will know their name after this year. They're both physical CBs (first round picks as well) who run 4.3s and have some experience in the league. They play as a tandem and want to be known as the best tandem in football. Zimmer is a former secondary coach and all off season he's been on their ass to get better and better. And they have...at least from all reports. Chad went up against JJ when he ran some routes in the OTAs and was embarrassed (his words). He said it has given him reason to get his shit together. Our entire secondary is under the age of 25 (unless Dexter Jackson starts which I don't see happening). If the CBs can play bump and run instead of the 10 yard cushion they gave last year on every play, it allows the LBs/safeties to get more creative in their pressure packages.

So yes, a lot is riding on that defense and I do think it'll perform much better than it has the past few years. I think the offense will get its shit together and dominate, allowing the defense to pressure the shit out of the QB.

I have faith and I'm too optimistic for my own good but I do think I have good reason to be. That's it from me.

[14th Dragon]

[quote name='FezRock' post='1439017' date='Jul 14 2008, 12.13']However if by chance the Packers do put Favre on the market, I think the AFC price tag wouldn't be so bad; and unless they meet in the Superbowl the teams won't meet again for until 2011, by which time Favre should be retired for good, so Favre as Jets QB I'd say would be one of the more likely options should he get on the market. And should he be available, the Jets should snap him up a heartbeat, use him this year, draft a QB in the upper rounds, and hope that he'll be willing to stay around another year or two so whoever is drafted has time to develop.[/quote]

Why would Favre want to play for the jets? It would be huge step away from being a super bowl contender. Might as well go to the Texans.

But hey, I do not get why Favre would not want to stay with Green Bay. Show up and compete with Rodgers, beat out Rodgers and be one of the top 5 teams in the leauge.

Screwy situation all the way around.

[Whiskeyjack]

[quote name='Ser Paladin' post='1438924' date='Jul 14 2008, 10.23']Felix Jones will apprentice for Barber, and be a change of pace guy. Ditto Matt Forte[/quote]

It looks like Forte will start from day 1.

[Fez]

[quote]Why would Favre want to play for the jets? It would be huge step away from being a super bowl contender. Might as well go to the Texans.[/quote]

Two reasons: One its New York, which means the Favre attention goes absolutely overboard. And the city will love him... until he screws up, which he will at some point, everybody does. But if he rebounds they'll love him all the more... until the next screw up, and so on. But when you're good, its a great place to play.

But more importantly with a good QB the Jets are a good team. Remember they were in the playoffs just two years ago, and they have seriously upgraded themselves this offseason. If it were not for the Pats being what they are, they would be in contention for the division, and I think they could strongly compete for a wild card with Favre at the helm.

And we saw just last year what a team can do with a wild card spot.

[Ser Paladin]

[quote name='Whiskeyjack' post='1439059' date='Jul 14 2008, 12.42']It looks like Forte will start from day 1.[/quote]
I find that a little surprising, but the Bear fanhood here on the board will clear it up, I'm sure. Been out of the loop for the last month and a half, but I don't remember seeing much beyond the usual over-hype of a rookie.

My expectation is that he will get less than half the carries for the first month of the season, if not longer. Peterson's hands make it likely that even if Forte starts from day one, he's probably [i]at best [/i]a 2 down back as a rookie (barring an injury to Peterson).