Babylon 5

[Shryke]

Does the world really need yet another soap opera with a couple of guys on a space ship? I think that horse has been dead for 20 years. B5 was interesting because it was an entire city, not just a space ship. That allowed for much more diversity on both cast and setting.

Crusade was heading for alot more then just "some guys on a space ship".

[Starbuck]

Interesting discussion. I always watched B5 in awe back in the late 90s, as it was the first TV SciFi show that really captured me by telling a larger story instead of single episodes. I loved all those dream sequences and prophecies and stuff, the many mysteries, the alien characters. First season was slow, but had wonderful moments like Mr Morden arriving - and it went uphill from there, especially when the war broke out. Lots of tragedy, lots of cliffhangers, excellent storytelling until early season four. Then, the Earth solution got rushed, and Season 5 felt rather lame from the beginning, bordering on being kitschy

As for a remake, I feel it's too soon for it. Maybe in ten years when not so many people remember that exactly what happened, it will make sense. But right now, the show is certainly still worth watching, especially if you focus on the key episodes. As somebody said earlier, you do not need to have everything on BluRay (I do not even have a player yet and don't miss it) - and to really tell a story this big in a newer, hipper format - and to make sure they really are reaching the end as planned, not fighting constant budgetary battles like B5 did, thus hurting the story in late Season 4 and Season 5 - they should take their time, secure funding and personell, and do this when the time has come for it, which is not now. At least in my eyes.

[williamjm]

Does the world really need yet another soap opera with a couple of guys on a space ship? I think that horse has been dead for 20 years. B5 was interesting because it was an entire city, not just a space ship. That allowed for much more diversity on both cast and setting.

There is certainly a danger that it could end up looking like a second-rate imitation of Star Trek, however if you look back at the last decade I think shows like Firefly and Battlestar Galactica have shown that it is still possible to do something interesting with a show set on a spaceship that isn't derivative of Trek. I'm not saying I'm necessarily all that keen on a Crusade remake, but I think it's a better idea than remaking B5 itself.

[Werthead]

I like the idea of doing Crusade 'properly'. The original was hamstrung from Day One by TNT's budget and creative shenanigans, so getting a chance to do it properly from the start could be a good idea. Plus it closes down the biggest remaining unresolved plot element from the franchise as well (i.e. how they solved the plague crisis).

[Bronn Stone]

Came up in another thread, so I thought I'd redirect back here.

Morden >>>> Deathwalker

Discuss.

[Paladin of Ice]

Came up in another thread, so I thought I'd redirect back here. Morden >>>> Deathwalker Discuss.

What's to discuss? ;)

[Bronn Stone]

I am mostly waiting for the user named Deathwalker to kick things in to gear.

[Shryke]

I like the idea of doing Crusade 'properly'. The original was hamstrung from Day One by TNT's budget and creative shenanigans, so getting a chance to do it properly from the start could be a good idea. Plus it closes down the biggest remaining unresolved plot element from the franchise as well (i.e. how they solved the plague crisis).

THere's even more unresolved plot elements if you read the unshot scripts.

Like "Who in Earthgov tried to assassinate Gideon?" and "WTF is up with the technomages?".

[TerraPrime]

Technomages are a bit cheesy to me, tbh. I can do without them.

Frankly, I think the story potential is far greater in the psycopath war, i.e. the rise of Bester and Psycorps.

[felice]

There's a novel trilogy that answers most of the questions about the technomages, though I'm not sure if I'd recommend reading it or not.

[MinDonner]

Morden, while brilliantly sinister, does not IMO qualify as an awesome villain in his own right, given that he was basically just a puppet of the Shadows. Yeah, he was a human who'd chosen to ally himself with Forces of Evil, yadda yadda, but overall he wasn't exactly nuanced.

Deathwalker was pretty cool, especially for being female (I've said this elsewhere, but B5's female characters are better than most - yeah, they pretty much had just one token female representative for each category of alien/faction, but with so MANY factions it made for a half-decent female cast). But for interesting villains, Bester >>>>>>>>>> all.

[Eejit]

But for interesting villains, Bester >>>>>>>>>> all.

Agreed, but only because Londo is more anti-hero than villain.

Londo/G'Kar is the best example of character arcs/development ever seen in sci-fi.

[MinDonner]

Agreed. Londo's storyline breaks my heart every time. I wish there was more like that in fiction.

[Shryke]

Technomages are a bit cheesy to me, tbh. I can do without them.

Their motivations in Crusade were rather interesting I though. They send Galen back specifically to wipe out anything so advanced it might threaten their new-found technological supremacy.

[ZombieWife]

Agreed. Londo's storyline breaks my heart every time. I wish there was more like that in fiction.

It's downright Shakespearean.

[Werthead]

There's a novel trilogy that answers most of the questions about the technomages, though I'm not sure if I'd recommend reading it or not.

The Passing of the Technomages trilogy is pretty good. It suffers a bit from the Galen Stu situation that makes a lot of latter-day B5 so tiresome, but he is handled better in the trilogy than in any of his other appearances. Plus, it's all canon (as JMS outlined it all).

[Ser Hippie]

For those interested, the AV TV Club is going to be starting a B5 rewatch/analysis

Rowan Kaiser’s been begging us and begging us to let him cover Babylon 5 for approximately half his life now, and we’ve finally decided we’re not covering enough space-based shows, so it’s high time he started taking a look at the classic, space-station-set series that’s famous for having the same man script every episode, in adherence to a series-long plan that he was remarkably successful in carrying out. He’ll begin coverage of the series on June 1, and this feature will appear Fridays at 11 a.m. Eastern. (He’ll have further news on how he’ll be scheduling write-ups—and where newbies should begin with the series—in his first review.)

[Lord of the Night]

Bester was one of the greatest things about Babylon 5, every episode with him in is one of its respective season's best.

LotN

[Eejit]

It's downright Shakespearean.

But even better due to being extended in length and scope :D

[Bronn Stone]

I cannot buy on to the 100% Bester love I am reading here.

1. Koenig's performance is not very strong. He not only doesn't compare with Katsulas or Jurasik (which is understandable), he really isn't in the league with Furlan, Mumy, O'Hare or Furst. While he isn't Claudia Christian-bad, he's not good. As an example, when he talks of Carolyn, the words are supposed to be filled with anguish, and they are. But nothing in his tone or demeanor made me believe those words. This was too bad, as they were mighty fine words. As good as Bester is in that show, in the hands of a stronger actor there would be little doubt he is among the two or three finest characters ever written for sci-fi television.

2. The name. Naming the character "Bester" is a fine homage. Naming him "Alfred Bester" is a sledge-hammer. Give him his own first name. It is a jarring moment. Almost as jarring as the moment in which Ivanova reads one of Harlan Ellison's novels - as if Ellison will be read in the 23rd Century - he was barely read in the 20th.