MMA 2009 III

[BLU-RAY]

Yeah in Wanderlei/Rampage III, Quinton landed 3 shots after KOing Wand, so Henderson doing this isn't near as bad. (Although he did have all of his body weight into it . . . )

Yeah, but I didn't get the same sense from that that I did from this Henderson-Bisping fight; Henderson seemed to want to injure Bisping more than he wanted to win the fight, and he seemed too smug afterwards about hitting a defenseless guy. I'd be OK if he was just gloating about the win, but he seemed to be gloating about the second strike... I dunno, it kind of made me feel dirty.

That said, I agree wtih Hapakane/BJ/Maelys/etc that it was legal, and I don't think there'll be a ton of ramifications for Hendo, outside of maybe hurting his image a bit with a subset of fans.

[GSP]

Stego, I have yet to be diagnosed with any form of mental illness, and I'm still going to maintain Alves is thunderfuck dangerous to anybody at WW. My namesake is just so bad ass he dominated him. Kudos Hapkane and theHalfMan for sticking up for my sanity.

I actually want to see GSP/Silva soon as well. I'm feeling better about GSP's chances than I was when it was initially talked about. He'd still correctly be the underdog in the fight, and I'm sure that'd be reflected in Vegas, but I'll put some money on him.

[Dodgesta]

I agree Alves is still a dangerous opponent. GSP's gameplan left him continually at odds and never let him get comfortable in his striking game and I don't think his 7-fight win streak was a fluke at all. He lasted 5 rounds and yes GSP wone every round but some of them were narrow 10-9 wins that were decided in the last couple seconds.

I'm really surprised Bisping got that much to Hendo consideirng how much of a laidback guy he is...I though Bisping had a decent shot at the win because of how much mentally and psychologically his trash talk got to Dan.

[TheHalfman]

As far as the flying elbow drop from Hendo, he did the same thing when he KO'd Wand so I think it can mainly be taken as an instinctual thing. Besides, it is a fight, people shouldn't be thinking so bad about this, the rule is you fight until the ref stops you and that is what he did. It is not like the ref went between them and Hendo went past the ref to then hit Bisping again.

[Oorag]

I haven't been following the controversy much, but I have to imagine that it stems more from Hendo's comments afterward than the blow itself. It's quite common for blows to land on totally KO'd fighters in MMA. You fight until you're stopped. Remember the Cristiano Cyborg fight, where she basically rag-dolled her opponent and then ran off to celebrate while the ref screamed at her to get back and finish?

[Ken Stone]

Very good night of fights! This was the first PPV I purchased live and it was a lot of fun being able to watch it in the comfort of my own home, with friends. I kept hoping that the main card fights would end in quick finishes, because of all the blood on the mat. You just knew that there had to have been some pretty crazy fights on the undercard.

I really thought Alves would have more to offer GSP. He did a fantastic job getting up after being taken down, but didn't offer much in the way of stuffing the takedowns, which lead to tentativeness in the stand up. At the very least he managed to break GSP's groin, so he had that going for him. Not sure how GSP maintained his explosive takedowns after losing an abductor.

Where exactly does the WW division go from here? It seems like they are setting up the winner of Kampman v Swick to be the next WW contender. Does anyone think either of those guys have a chance? I wouldn't take either of them against Fitch, or Alves, so I don't see how anyone thinks they could match up with GSP. A super fight is all that is left for him, for now.

The HW division seems to pose a few match up problems also. Right now the only I can see stepping in and challenging Lesnar would be Big Nog, if he returns to form against Couture. I can't say I really like his chances that much, but I don't see anyone else that can contend. Carwin is big and powerful, but less so than Lesnar. Maybe Dos Sentos would create an interesting match up with his striking prowess, but I still wouldn't pick him to win it. I'm not sure I would even take Fedor over Lesnar, although that clearly is the most interesting match up.

ETA: I took something different away from the Bisping/Hendo match. Bisping did a lot of trash talking, and was clearly trying to get under Hendo's skin. I think his strategy worked. Bisping knew that he didn't stand a chance of beating "Decision Dan", because his wrestling is no where near good enough. He had (in theory) a much better chance against "Right Hand Dan". Bisping isn't an amazing striker but he is a much better striker than wrestler. Unfortunately while his trash talking successfully goaded Hendo into fighting a stand up battle it also lead to the devestating elbow. It was a high risk/high reward strategy. It's also why you never, ever, trash talk a Ju Jitsu guy.

[Stego]

Bobby Lashley might be the answer as yto who can take on Brock. Maybe Fedor too, but I think Mir would beat Fedor.

[benderschweiz]

The two guys with the best shot to take out Lesnar are fighting each other at Affliction. I honestly wouldn't even pick Fedor against Lesnar at this point, though. Lesnar can lay in side mount all day using his wrestling with little fear of submissions and GnP entire rounds away.

[GSP]

I think Carwin could take down Lesnar. He's damn near as big with a far superior stand up game, and incredibly heavy hands. He is no wrestling slouch either. One thing I did notice on Saturday night was that for the little bit of time the fight stayed standing, it was all Mir.

[Oorag]

Yeah, I think Carwin might have the best chance of taking out Lesnar, using his wrestling to fight the takedowns and KO power to finish the fight. Lashley hasn't shown that he's ready for top tier talent, much less Lesnar. Fedor would have a chance of pulling out a submission, but Lesnar is just going to get better and better at avoiding danger while he pummels you through the canvas.

[TheHalfman]

Where exactly does the WW division go from here? It seems like they are setting up the winner of Kampman v Swick to be the next WW contender. Does anyone think either of those guys have a chance? I wouldn't take either of them against Fitch, or Alves, so I don't see how anyone thinks they could match up with GSP. A super fight is all that is left for him, for now.

I see Swick potentially (longshot) beating GSP but Kampmann I think would not do very well. Swick has some great handspeed to go along with the total MMA package he has (both he and Kampmann are well rounded) and I think that if he could manage to keep it standing he could put GSP into some trouble on the feet, but that is about it.

And yeah, I said that earlier, Carwin/Velasquez are the only real big threats (on paper) to Lesnar right now at this point. Cain being the weaker of the two as a whole. Carwin is like Brock in his standup where he has horrible defense and little head movement, the difference is that his punches knock people out and Brock's just knock people down. If Carwin could keep the fight standing or just stay on top I can easily see him delivering a TKO/KO to Brock. From all of his fights, it just looks like Brock does not like being hit. This is mainly just because he's had so little fights and is learning as he goes along.

I don't care how high caliber of an athlete you are or if you have a ton of knowledge, it takes quite a few fights to be completely comfortable and acclimated to the cage. Every Lesnar fight you see for at least the next 4 or so fights will probably be a very different Brock.

[Ser Barry]

Bisping fought scared. Maybe this loss will help him grow up a bit and realise that you need to hit and be hit to be a top fighter. Even Anderson stays in the pocket and takes a blow or two now and then, Machida is the only exception I can think of and Bisping is no Machida. Very, very disappointing.

Lesnar's win is really the sign of the maturation of the HW division. In every other weight class the top fighters have to be well rounded in many areas and be physically well prepared. You have to cut to have a chance of winning. You need to be strong and quick and techinical. Brock is probably the first HW champion who is as well prepared physically as the champions in the other weight classes. Even BJ is waking up and realising that talent alone is not enough.

The one thing I do hope to see is the introduction of a 225lb division, not least because that is where I would fight. We need to see the end of flabby 235lbers cruising along because they can't make 205. Where do these guys fight once all those fighters who reached straight for the steroids on Sunday morning surface? You can't give away 50lbs to Lesnar or any other top athlete and hope to win. Yes it would be a split in a weight class light on talent but the alternative is a sub-class of decent fighters who lack the size to impact the gorillas but have nowhere else to go.

Alves impressed me in defeat. He asked questions of GSP, it is testament to GSP that he was able to answer them so comprehensively. I want to see Alves take on some good grapppling WW talent in his next few fights and see if he can continue his improvements.

Overall it was a good card and I am hyped for where we go from here.

PS. Fedor beats Lesnar, for now.

[ljkeane]

Lesnar's win is really the sign of the maturation of the HW division. In every other weight class the top fighters have to be well rounded in many areas and be physically well prepared. You have to cut to have a chance of winning. You need to be strong and quick and techinical. Brock is probably the first HW champion who is as well prepared physically as the champions in the other weight classes. Even BJ is waking up and realising that talent alone is not enough.

I'm not sure how well rounded Lesnar is, he's so physically powerful that it's difficult to take advantage of the weaknesses he does have but I wouldn't say he is well rounded.

[Ken Stone]

Yeah, I think Carwin might have the best chance of taking out Lesnar, using his wrestling to fight the takedowns and KO power to finish the fight. Lashley hasn't shown that he's ready for top tier talent, much less Lesnar. Fedor would have a chance of pulling out a submission, but Lesnar is just going to get better and better at avoiding danger while he pummels you through the canvas.

Here's my problem with Carwin. I can't get the image of him getting his ass kicked by Gonzaga out of my head. You put Gonzaga in the cage with Lesnar and Lesnar would completely dominate him. Also I don't see Carwin sneaking a lucky KO on Lesnar. He's too quick and long and powerful.

[Ser Barry]

I'm not sure how well rounded Lesnar is, he's so physically powerful that it's difficult to take advantage of the weaknesses he does have but I wouldn't say he is well rounded.

I was talking more in his approach as an athlete rather than specific fighting skills. Too many fighters in the HW division focus on skills and not enough on physical preparation. How many top fighters do you get in other divisions who aren't absolute physical specimens?

[ljkeane]

I was talking more in his approach as an athlete rather than specific fighting skills. Too many fighters in the HW division focus on skills and not enough on physical preparation. How many top fighters do you get in other divisions who aren't absolute physical specimens?

True, but I'd say that the top fighters in other divisions are also well rounded in a way that Lesnar isn't.

[lessthanluke]

I was talking more in his approach as an athlete rather than specific fighting skills. Too many fighters in the HW division focus on skills and not enough on physical preparation. How many top fighters do you get in other divisions who aren't absolute physical specimens?

Yeh its the same in boxing. Heavyweights seem to think that because they don't have to make weight they don't need to be in shape.

[Ken Stone]

Yeh its the same in boxing. Heavyweights seem to think that because they don't have to make weight they don't need to be in shape.

This was an interesting topic on Beatdown one time. Basically the idea is that if you are a large man, say 280, who is also very athletic, you probably are going to be playing basketball or football. If you are a very athletic guy who is, say, 5'8" and 180, combat sports are the only available avenue. That is why you see very athletically gifted guys at the lower weight classes, and not so much at HW.

[GSP]

After watching Lesnar back peddle to Frank's standing assaults Saturday, I don't believe that Lesnar would 'completely dominate' a standing game vs. Gonzaga. Lesnar could very well have fared worse than Carwin did in that fight. I think on the feet is where fighters should be trying to put Brock away. He doesn't do so well when someone gets in his face standing up.

Oh, and I totally agree there is now a need for a lower heavy weight division, somewhere around the 215-235 mark. There is so much talent that is never going to see the light of day because it can't put a dent in the need-to-cut-to-make-265 otherwise.

[JGP]

By the midpoint of the first round, I called Hendo's second round KO of Bisping. Even when he dropped in weight class the guy's never impressed me. Bisping picked up a little speed, but he's never acquitted himself well against anyone with a chin, i.e. Evans, Hammil, etc

Sure, most of these guys are bringing some serious skills and natural talent, and yeah, there are rules. But it's still a fight. If no one's stopping me I'm making sure dude can't get up. I have no issue with the finishing move.

I'm looking forward to someone knocking Lesnar down a few. Along with ham-fisted stand-up, this opponent will have a devastating leg-kick, mark my words. Lesnar's knees look weak enough to really capitalize on.