Lost Season 6 v.2

[Kalbear]

ONOZ!! Jack destroys the mirrors of a lighthouse we've never heard of before and had no bearing on the overall story-arc!

Yes, destroying beautiful things is always okay as long as it's not plot-relevant.

Sigh.

As pointed out, Jack's traveled through time, been visited by his dead dad, seen a monster made of smoke, seen people return from the dead, seen an island disappear, and has been told for a long time how great he is and how people look up to him. Why does he need to go stare off in the distance for a while to really figure this out?

What awesomeness am I missing about Jack? His bad decision making skills? His rugged jawline? Seriously - what's so great about him, demonblade?

[Ran]

He's awesome because he's easily identifiable with. He's easily identifiable with because he's an Everyman. Con-man Sawyer, mystic Locke, and so on, they're all archetypes which only some people are going to identify with. Everyone can identify with, "What the fuck is going on? I just want to get through this, stop fucking with me!" Jack Shepard.

[Kalbear]

The spinal surgeon who had to fly to Sydney to recover his alcoholic father's body is someone everyone can identify with?

See, I would have bought that with Hurley, who tends to be the voice of the fans and the breaker of the 4th wall anyway - but Jack seems like he's supposed to be better than everyone. Heck, that's how they've played him often; he's been the one making deals with the Others (that we didn't see), planning on building an army (oops), planning on shooting Locke, etc.

I understand that he's definitely the more transparent of the leaders we've seen, but he's also one of the ones least sympathizeable with. Part of the problem is that until this season Jack hasn't wanted to ask the obvious questions. He's just gone along with whatever and been accepting of everything; completely passive. Him breaking the mirrors was one of the few times where we've seen him actively stand up and not want to take any more.

[Caligula_K]

And I can identify with that. I'm not going to argue that Jack hasn't made bad decisions or that he isn't a douche at times. But through seasons 1-3, he was concerned with surviving, getting off the island, and the Others when they became a threat. That is completely understandable, and I could empathise with the fact that he didn't really care about this island being super magical and the 1001 mysteries on it- he just wanted to get the hell off it with as many people as possible, which is how I think most of us would be thinking if we crashed on a mysterious island with smoke monsters and polar bears and mysterious natives who like kidnapping and killing us. And I don't think the writers ever played up Jack such that he was supposed to be better than anyone, apart from early season 1; he's been shown to be flawed over and over again, and the writers have spent the last three seasons basically pissing on him. Yet most of the decisions he made are the ones I would probably make in those shoes, without the context that us viewers (or even Locke, who experience a tangible miracle first hand) have.

I agree with Kalbear though that Hurley is the character it's most easy to identify with, but I think Jack runs a close second. That's not to say that he's my favourite character or anything, or even in my top 5, but I think the Jack bashing becomes way too over the top.

and has been told for a long time how great he is and how people look up to him. Why does he need to go stare off in the distance for a while to really figure this out?

Locke was told that and look how things turned out for him. If I were Jack, who at this point is already feeling extremely shitty about himself due to how badly he screwed things up at the Incident, I'd also want something more tangible than that.

[Dinsdale!]

Jin is the everyman. He tries to fit in, be helpful and his motivations are super-clear.

[Ran]

Hurley's too credulous of everything. I would totally go Thomas Covenant if I ended up on that island, myself.

ETA: Jin would be an everyman if he actually spoke English and held something other than his ultra-conservative (by Western standards) attitudes regarding his wife during the first few seasons.

[Kalbear]

I dunno; I think that one of the biggest frustrations fans and non-fans have had with the show was how completely uncurious the lostaways have been - and no one has been moreso than Jack. Yes, they were fighting for their survival...kind of. (they often didn't seem all that concerned about it). And they certainly don't now; they walk back and forth through the forest without a care in the world. It's only concerned them when it was relevant to the plot. Which is fine - but it's hard to identify with, and makes the audience not care either.

I think that that would have been an interesting way for the show to go; make the island completely scary as hell, and always have that tension. Not be sure who was going to come back and who wasn't. This was something they talked about early on, but didn't follow through on.

Instead, they made the island a place where there were houses, and fresh food drops, and an exercise bike and a stereo. They went out of their way to make it comforting and nice while making it mysterious and magical. In that situation, wouldn't you be curious? Wouldn't you want to know more? Heck, you're on an island that's as beautiful as Hawaii, you don't have to worry about food or shelter and have an endless supply of tarps. There are no dangerous wild animals that come near the camp. Wouldn't you want to check the place out and hike? The castaways on Survivor show more curiousity.

Oh yeah - the other Everyman was Charlie. Before they messed around with his character and gave him the Desmond arc.

[Trebla]

To me Hurley is the voice of the audience...he says what we are all thinking:

"So Bernard is white? Didn't seee that coming!"

But Jack is how many of us would react. Just trying to survive and help everyone else. He didn't want to be leader, everyone looked to him. He's dealt with the Others while dealing with locke sabotaging every effort to get off the Island. I can't imagaine the stress level of trying to lead and be the physician in that environment. Trying to save Boone and give him his own blood at the same time. Yeah, he also snapped and pulled the trigger on Locke but consider the context. He was trying to get the survivors off the Island. He had been led to believe that Sayid, Jin, and Bernard were killed. He find out they weren't. So just when he thinks they are going to be saved, Locke shows up and throws a knife into Naomi's back. I probably would have pulled the trigger to.

They have done a fair amount of hiking and exploring. Hurley reflects on that in the last episode. When they first got the Food drop, didn't they question who dropped it and whether they should eat it resulting in a huge fight?

They have seemingly lost their fear of the jungle. Punch drunk, perhaps?

[Kalbear]

They have done a fair amount of hiking and exploring. Hurley reflects on that in the last episode. When they first got the Food drop, didn't they question who dropped it and whether they should eat it resulting in a huge fight?

I was talking earlier, when Jack was more in charge. It was this special thing that Hurley wandered off. They've made jokes about it too; that despite being on the island for 3 months they hadn't even seen this giant statue foot with 4 toes. Or the lighthouse, or the giant temple of doom, or the Dharma compounds, etc. Heck, Jack only found the caves because smokey /dad led him to them.

It's been better in the later seasons when they opened things up and established what was where, but early on the writers kind of confined the losties.

[Caligula_K]

As the island feels smaller and smaller, it does get more and more ridiculous how little they found in seasons 1-3. It would be one thing if the island took a couple days to walk across, as it seemed at the beginning, but these days you can get from the Temple to the Caves to the Lighthouse in a few hours, from the Temple to New Otherton just as quick, and carry a corpse from the four toed statue to the beach camp without a problem. Not to mention that there's a Dharma station/remnant of Dharma civilization (with a nice label!) every five seconds.

I think that that would have been an interesting way for the show to go; make the island completely scary as hell, and always have that tension. Not be sure who was going to come back and who wasn't. This was something they talked about early on, but didn't follow through on.

Although the show may not have succeeded in instilling that tension, it still is a dangerous goddamn island. Everybody who survived the plane crash except for Jack, Hurley, Kate, Sawyer, Sun, Jin, Claire, Sayid, Rose and Bernard (10 people!) has died or been abducted. Everyone from the freighter but Miles and Frank are dead. Extras and minor characters were dying pretty consistently over the first four seasons. It's understandable that they're exploring now, because they're doing it for a purpose, but I completely understand them not exploring before that.

[Demonblade]

What awesomeness am I missing about Jack? His bad decision making skills? His rugged jawline? Seriously - what's so great about him, demonblade?

Who's saying that he's all that great? You're the one who finds fault in anything he does, which is fine for an opinion but it gets nauseating hearing this shit every goddamn week for years on end. Don't you get tired of your inane diatribes?

[Mya Stone]

Who's saying that he's all that great? You're the one who finds fault in anything he does, which is fine for an opinion but it gets nauseating hearing this shit every goddamn week for years on end. Don't you get tired of your inane diatribes?

Cmon, db, it's Kalbear. I'm gonna go with the obvious answer here, and say, no, he isn't. :P

:kiss:

I also can't stand all the Jack-hate. I don't quite understand the completely vitriolic ferocity in which his detractors strike him down with. Although one site that I go to for Lost recaps, the Ack Attack, has a pretty awesome expression for Jack's almost-crying face. She calls them Jears. (Jack's tears.) And as much as I don't wanna, I can't help but laugh.

[Isis]

Him breaking the mirrors was one of the few times where we've seen him actively stand up and not want to take any more.

Yes, that's why I liked it and said that I didn't get why people would be all pissed off about it. The scene makes real sense. I'm bored of seeing these characters NOT ask questions and get led around by the nose all the time. It was about time someone just lost it and said, 'I am tired of all this bullshit and I just want some answers right now. I'm not going to play your stupid fucking games anymore. Fuck you.'

[Trebla]

The Lost pop-up episode just revealed what Dogen said in Japanese:

"You are lucky I have to protect you or I would remove your head from your body and feed it to the boars!"

[Kalbear]

Who's saying that he's all that great? You're the one who finds fault in anything he does, which is fine for an opinion but it gets nauseating hearing this shit every goddamn week for years on end. Don't you get tired of your inane diatribes?

There's an ignore button, DB. Feel free to avail yourself of it.

And I actually liked Jack last season when he decided to say 'fuck it all' and not push to be in charge so much. At first it was a little passive aggressive with Sawyer, but as it went on he seemed to get in the flow of not worrying about things, not trying to be in control of so much, and just enjoying the ride for a bit.

Of course, then he decided he had The Answer (which was oddly out of character for him given how much faith he was taking) and apparently messed up the life of stuff.

[oneeye]

Jack used to be cool, like 3 seasons ago.

[Lord Slum]

I thought Sayid changed. Guess I was wrong.

[Jaxom 1974]

It was an...interesting...episode...

[Trebla]

so...I guess we can put aside the question about good vs. evil?

Some question about why MiB could not enter the Temple. The Ash or Drogen? Claire couldn't just brush the ash away? Or Drogen being active leader protected the Temple somehow? Also, Drogen twice asking someone to kill Sayid. Was it because of guilt over his son or because he can't kill a candidate, even a corrupted one? That makes more sense since MiB's boy vision saying "you can't kill him" about Sawyer. Speaking of Sawyer, where was he and Jin during the assault? Jin in the freezer was a a nice touch, as was bringing in Keamy. So the watch was for him on the flash-sidewise. I've been meh with these but I liked this flash-sidewise.

The "magic dagger" kind of cracked me up. Reminded me of The Omen's Daggers of Megiddo.

The end of the episode was kind of weird. Crazy Claire just walks by Kate after swearing to kill her. And Kate just calmly walks through the carnage and grabs a gun.

Next week looks interesting with Ben. For all those bloody crimes he really does love that damned island.

[lady narcissa]

I will never be able to hear Catch A Falling Star ever again without thinking of dead Others. omg they turned that into the creapiest song.

KEAMY!

And *sniff* Sayid...*sniff*