NFL. vol 3

[DanteGabriel]

Yeah, but Brady started with Bridget Moynihan. You can't just jump into Bundchen-level play early on. Cutler has 5 years to get to the level of model-banging that Brady's at. Plus with a better supporting cast he'll be able to nail more models; right now, he doesn't have the weapons around him to reliably nail the supermodel types.

The problem there is that Cutler does make bad decisions and may sling and slang his dick around the league. That can win you some crazy women but it can also get you in a lot of trouble. Projections from BO (banging outsiders) have Cutler's career banging most similar to players like Joe Namath - early rise, big press, bangs a lot of women but ends up drunk and begging to kiss Suzy Kolber.

Brady was dating Tara Reid in 2002 (some of us Pats fans were wondering about his game-day focus during that season) so there's been quite a progression for him too. I'd probably go for the Hills girl over 2002 Tara Reid for what it's worth, so that's a tangential vote of confidence for Cutler.

[Rockroi]

Yeah, but Brady started with Bridget Moynihan. You can't just jump into Bundchen-level play early on. Cutler has 5 years to get to the level of model-banging that Brady's at. Plus with a better supporting cast he'll be able to nail more models; right now, he doesn't have the weapons around him to reliably nail the supermodel types.

The problem there is that Cutler does make bad decisions and may sling and slang his dick around the league. That can win you some crazy women but it can also get you in a lot of trouble. Projections from BO (banging outsiders) have Cutler's career banging most similar to players like Joe Namath - early rise, big press, bangs a lot of women but ends up drunk and begging to kiss Suzy Kolber.

I have always maintained that what makes Brady great was that he got Bridgett Moynihan right out of the gate. BOOM! First time on the big stage, first try, big Hollywood actress. Sure, some said he was a "flash-in-the-pan" or worse just a "woman manager" like Trent Dilfer. I think after nailing Bundchen, Brady finally put those complaints to rest. And his MVP season of having two kids in under two years with two smoking hot women...? Manning cannot say that; Breese cannot say that! Name me another NFL QB who has had two smoking hot actresses/Supermodels, procreated with both, and is NOT in the Hall of Fame? It can't be done!

Sure, he may be the "third-best poon-tang hound" in the NFL, currently, but I'll take that any day. Christ, who was the last super-model you think Derrick Anderson banged?

Brady was dating Tara Reid in 2002

You know, people keep bringing up Brady and 2002 like it was THAT BAD! Tara Reid- before she got all coked-up and crazy -was really good. Brady was perfectly fine that season; his numbers were very solid. Sure, Reid was a misstep, but between 2001 and 2003, if your biggest misstep is 2002/Tara Reid, your QB is doing fine.

[Slyfinger]

The AFC North is the Big Dog these days... That brings us to the GAME OF THE WEEK: McNabb and the Skins at Philly.

I'll have to disagree with you on this one. If you're looking for an ugly and brutal football game look no further than the Steelers vs. the Ravens. The word 'dislike' would get blindside blocked into Concussionland for being too lame. 'Hate' has a $20,000 bounty on its head(I heard). Some of the insults slung around include: stabbings, rape, unibrows, vehicular manslaughter, DUI's, and Flozell Adams.

AFC Central football.

For the past... hell, decade the games wars of attrition between these two teams has either directly or indirectly decided who would win the AFC North. And with Cincy playing the Browns(easy win for them), the Ravens season could be in jeopardy with a loss. Going 0-2 this early in the AFC North could be the difference between a wildcard spot and a spot next to Howard Schuab. I've been hearing 'playoff atmosphere' being thrown around by the talking heads but this game might be the first with playoff implications.

While the inevitability of Philly fans booing McNabb might hold some entertainment and the game might be everything it's hyped up to be, this will be a papercut compared to this bloodbath.

Man, am I happy we got a bye week after this.

[DanteGabriel]

You know, people keep bringing up Brady and 2002 like it was THAT BAD! Tara Reid- before she got all coked-up and crazy -was really good. Brady was perfectly fine that season; his numbers were very solid. Sure, Reid was a misstep, but between 2001 and 2003, if your biggest misstep is 2002/Tara Reid, your QB is doing fine.

In retrospect, yes, the defense and the lack of a running game were the real problems in 2002, but back then I remember having my doubts about Brady.

[Kalbear]

You know, people keep bringing up Brady and 2002 like it was THAT BAD! Tara Reid- before she got all coked-up and crazy -was really good

I don't think it's right of you to describe a 14-year old as "really good".

[Jack Sparrow]

You know, people keep bringing up Brady and 2002 like it was THAT BAD! Tara Reid- before she got all coked-up and crazy -was really good.

I've never really been a fan of people going on about how not attracted they are to celebrity chicks, but I was never that big a fan of Reid (though I would've snogged her and everything, don't get me wrong). Grading on the Hollywood hotness curve, I definitely wouldn't say she was "really good." On another tangent, and I'm sure this has probably been mentioned by other people, but I haven't really seen it (and am shocked Bill Simmons has never mentioned it (that I've seen or heard)), but how hilarious is it to go back and watch 'American Pie' and see Reid playing the virgin who doesn't want to go all the way? I'm not one to really follow cebrities and their personal lives, or to have a hard time differentiating actors from their parts, but I saw part of that movie on TV a couple of years ago, and it is not impossible for me to accept Reid in that role.

Back more to the thread topic, the Steelers are awesome. I'm trying not to get too carried away with them and just enjoy what looks like a good season, but man is almost everything falling into place for them. It's like all the top picks of the Tomlin era are aligning like planets for some Biblical thing: Timmons, while I thought he was an underrated player before this year, seems to have just suddenly blossomed into a Pro Bowl linebacker, Mendenhall is starting to really make the explosive plays they drafted him for, and Pouncey was a day one starter and an instant upgrade to the interior of the OL (Hood is also playing all right in rotation on the DL, and seems to be adapting to the 3-4). It's too bad the star QB's a jerk, and possible sexual predator.

[Trebla]

While the inevitability of Philly fans booing McNabb might hold some entertainment and the game might be everything it's hyped up to be, this will be a papercut compared to this bloodbath.

nah, this game is meh until Captain Bathroom Big Ben comes back.

[Jaime L]

That brings us to the GAME OF THE WEEK: McNabb and the Skins at Philly. With a win, the Eagles can go up 2 1/2 games over the Cowboys and G-Men who have byes. The Skins would drop to 1-3 and all Hell would break loose in DC because their next 3 games are against the Packers, Indy, and @ Chicago. This makes it a MUST WIN for the Skins. With my beloved Cowboys on bye, I'm firmly rooting for the Skins! :thumbsup:

Whoa, somehow missed this. I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad that the Cowboy fans are pulling for us. :P

Anyway, agree it's a hugely important game for the Skins. And McNabb. I'm sure he's feeling like benching the guy they shipped him out of town for after a quarter and a half is another slight. Or if he had to listen to Andy Reid's giddy talk about Michael Vick. Must be hard to conduct a press conference with a man's nuts in your mouth.

Was going to say I'm still hoping for the possibility that Vick's resurgence will turn out to be smoke and mirrors based on the pass defenses he's gone against but then I'm not sure this Redskin defense is much better.

Just going to hope Trent Williams plays because sad to say but the rookie who's played 2 games in his career is now one of the three most important Redskins.

[Lightning Lord]

And Stego is wrong. It's his personal opinion, and he's entitled to it, but that doesn't make it correct or even close to correct.

As for mediocre at best, same deal. You're entitled to your opinion but it's just that.

The facts are as follows:

In his career so far (56 games played):

Cutler has passed for 13560 yards for 87 TD and 65 INT on mediocre to bad Broncos teams and a Bears team that ranged last season from just average to horrible.

Let's compare with two other future Hall of Fame QB's first four seasons.

Tom Brady (64 games in his first four season): 13919 yards 97 TD 52 INT while playing on good teams that won Super Bowls.

Drew Brees (58 games in his first four season): 12427 yards 79 TD 53 INT while playing on a Chargers team that had big ups and downs but also saw the emergence of LdT.

Right, and when Brees was still early in his career, I would have called him mediocre at best as well. The first two seasons with him as starter weren't pretty. Brees was actually benched in favor of Doug Flutie during his second season. He threw too many INTs. Then he cobbled together two pretty damn good seasons.

When he became a free agent, he wasn't considered one of the top tier quarterbacks in the league.

Comparing Brady to Culter is like comparing filet mignon to a McDonald's Big Mac.

The big difference is Brees and Brady were better in their 3rd and 4th years than when they were just starting out. Cutler looks a LOT better this year, but it's been three games. When I look at the other 3.5 years, he's not anything special.

[Kalbear]

4500 passing yards and the TD/int ratio he had in his third year was actually pretty special, as far as that goes. It's pretty rare; Brady didn't get that many yards that early, nor did Manning. Heck, not many QBs ever get that kind of production. Brady didn't until the 2007 year (and only the once), Manning only twice in his career. Saying that it's not very special for a 3rd year player is...well, it's kinda silly. I'm not saying that it's the sign of the best QB of all time, but one of the reasons the Cutler trade was so surprising is that QBs that throw for 4k yards in their second starting year don't tend to get traded because they tend to be pretty phenomenal as far as QBs go.

Or to put it another way - if Cutler's nothing special as far as that sort of thing goes, neither was Brady in 2009.

[Swordfish]

I think Palmer has never been the same since his leg surgery, but I think the more telling surgery was his arm surgery. His throws just seem to go...completely to the wrong place. Regardless, Palmer is done as far as a high-level QB. I know I said this before and was shouted down for it, but he's simply not looked strong for a couple years now.

Agreed. I got the same reaction. He's been done for a couple years.

And let's face it, it's not like he was EVER really particularly awesome. He had, what. ONE exceptional season? And with some pretty talented receivers and a solid running game? And didn't he lead the league in fumbles by a QB that year?

Lot of high expectations based on how he came out of the gate, lot's of potential, but nothing to speak of for several seasons really. I think he's always been over rated TBH.

Stick a fork in him though, because he's done.

[Kalbear]

Palmer actually had two pretty good seasons - 2006 and 2007. Both were over 60% completion rate and 4k yards, though as you say he had some problems with fumbles and interceptions. Since then he's been really meh.

[Lord O' Bones]

Well.

THE HERMINATOR still believes in the NFC westbays. I guess that counts for...

No. Not really. That still counts for not much.

[Lightning Lord]

4500 passing yards and the TD/int ratio he had in his third year was actually pretty special, as far as that goes.

25:18 is a good ratio? :blink:

Not saying it's atrocious, but it's not great, either. (Brady's third year 23:12, Manning 33:15, Brees 27:7)

Brady's third season ratio and QB rating were most comparable, but he had a couple rings to back up his claim as a top-tier QB. Cutler's got nothing so far. Passing for lots of yards doesn't make you a great quarterback. Daunte Culpepper and Trent Green have both passed for more yards in a single season than Cutler, are they pretty special as well? (maybe Culpepper...but not in a good way :D)

[Kalbear]

4500 yards doesn't make you amazing; yardage as a measure of a QB is not that great. Doing that in your third year in the league while having over 60% completion rate is pretty astounding (that's not something that Green or Culpepper did) And while the TD/int ratio isn't amazing, it's up there with fairly good (if not amazing) QBs in their 3rd seasons. Brady is the most comparable, and probably the best reason Brady has for fewer interceptions is simply not needing to throw for as much or as often.

I'm not saying that he's going to be as good as Manning, Brady or Brees. I think Favre is a good ceiling for him; Favre had similar TD/INT ratios early on in his career. At the same time, Favre has had a stellar career as a QB by most measures, only failing in winning multiple superbowls. If that's the 'bad' situation the Bears have - having a QB for the next 10 years that throws for 4k yards a season and has about a 1.5 TD/int ratio - the Bears will have something they have literally never had in their history.

[Lightning Lord]

4500 yards doesn't make you amazing; yardage as a measure of a QB is not that great. Doing that in your third year in the league while having over 60% completion rate is pretty astounding (that's not something that Green or Culpepper did) And while the TD/int ratio isn't amazing, it's up there with fairly good (if not amazing) QBs in their 3rd seasons. Brady is the most comparable, and probably the best reason Brady has for fewer interceptions is simply not needing to throw for as much or as often.

I'm not saying that he's going to be as good as Manning, Brady or Brees. I think Favre is a good ceiling for him; Favre had similar TD/INT ratios early on in his career. At the same time, Favre has had a stellar career as a QB by most measures, only failing in winning multiple superbowls. If that's the 'bad' situation the Bears have - having a QB for the next 10 years that throws for 4k yards a season and has about a 1.5 TD/int ratio - the Bears will have something they have literally never had in their history.

I should maybe clarify: I am not saying Cutler sucks. I've said he's mediocre. He can totally prove me wrong and become the best ever and that's fine with me. But as of right now, his career hasn't been remarkable. He's had a great year so far, he might keep it up.

[Kalbear]

And I'd say any QB that threw for that much is not, by definition, 'mediocre'. Especially so early in his career. Going to a pro bowl in your third season is not mediocre. Very, very few QBs in their third year remotely approach that level of production. That he went into Chicago and had his worst career year - and still did significantly better than any Chicago QB has in the last 20 years - should say something. Mediocrity was the name of the Chicago QB for a long time, and Cutler isn't one of them.

As another example, here's another QB's 3rd year stats:

15 280 469 59.7 3513 7.5 18 67 23 3 75.4

One less game played, but you get the idea. He's considered a top QB in the league.

[Lightning Lord]

And I'd say any QB that threw for that much is not, by definition, 'mediocre'. Especially so early in his career. Going to a pro bowl in your third season is not mediocre. Very, very few QBs in their third year remotely approach that level of production. That he went into Chicago and had his worst career year - and still did significantly better than any Chicago QB has in the last 20 years - should say something. Mediocrity was the name of the Chicago QB for a long time, and Cutler isn't one of them.

As another example, here's another QB's 3rd year stats:

15 280 469 59.7 3513 7.5 18 67 23 3 75.4

One less game played, but you get the idea. He's considered a top QB in the league.

He wasn't at the time. Hindsight makes it a lot easier, but don't let current opinion of a player color how they were perceived at the time.

[Darkostar]

And I'd say any QB that threw for that much is not, by definition, 'mediocre'.

Quarterbacks who have thrown for over 4500 yards in a season:

Bledsoe, Moon (Twice), Marino (Twice), Manning, Brees, Brady, Warner, Fouts, Rich Gannon, Neil Lomax, Trent Green, Schaub, Cutler, and Culpepper.

Kind of a mixed bag.

[BLU-RAY]

I dunno, I think everyone except maybe Culpepper and Lomax (who the hell is Lomax?) was considered better than mediocre at some point in their career. Even Trent Green was never great, but he was solidly in the top half of NFL QBs for a while.