[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

[Pinkie Baelish]

Anybody find it a bit funny that the longest nitpick thread is on the GRRM written episode?

[Minsc]

Anybody find it a bit funny that the longest nitpick thread is on the GRRM written episode?

To be fair, we probably expect better from George then the other writers.

[Penguin king]

I'd be interested to see how much of the script he actually wrote, and what constraints he was under. We know for sure the bear sequence came from another episode, which means that some of his material hit the cutting room floor. Lines for Cat maybe...

Edit: As another example, going back to Martin's script for Blackwater, the whole sequence with Stannis being the first one over the walls of King's Landing, was apparently added by the director while they filmed, and Cersei getting ready to poision Tommen was added by D&D. Pretty sure they added in the scene with Bronn and the hound arguing as well. Would be really interesting to get a look at all the different drafts for a Martin script, and watch the changes creep in one by one.

[Pellaeon]

Anybody find it a bit funny that the longest nitpick thread is on the GRRM written episode?

I think it's because we thought after 6 episodes book bashing we would see ASoIaF again but we didn't

[The Pain Yak]

To be fair, we probably expect better from George then the other writers.

Exactly. I was specifically looking forward to this episode precisely because it was GRRM's episode. He penned two of the best episodes of the series so far and SoIaF is his baby, meaning he knows exactly how each character is meant to be presented. High expectations means disappointment comes easier.

[Raksha the Demon]

Okay well, basically I just meant I liked the Arya scenes with Tywin. What I didn't like was how it didn't move the plot along, even if the banter was amusing. I guess I just mean I liked her story line this season, not so much the changes last season. But yeah your right it's all about Tyrion, in particular to the Lannisters but them as a whole as well, the Tyrell's, and Theon. I'd even argue this season it's about Dany too. Why do we see her dragons wayyy more than we've seen the direwolves? I swear we saw Grey Wind like once since the start of season two.. I think Summer was the only one shown this season and we NEVER see Shaggydog.

It is a shame that the direwolves are so absent in Season 3 (and much of Season 2). So much of the young Starks' identities and self-image is intertwined with them; metaphorically and emotionally. Arya's bond with Nymeria reflects her growing savagery as well as her tenacious connection with her Stark roots. Robb and Jon's wolves protect the boys in war and danger and in Jon's case, they do share dreams and a connection with Bran and Summer as well. Summer has saved Bran's life and helps him roam free in his dreams as he cannot in the real world. Shaggydog and little Rickon seem to influence each other emotionally most of all; perhaps because Rickon's parents left him when he was so young; and Shaggydog will be a tremendous protector to a young Stark orphan with only one human protector (though Osha's strength and courage cannot be under-estimated; Shaggydog is faster and even more fierce than she is). Sansa still mourns for Lady and thinks of her, and hears a wolf voice in the winds of the Vale.

I also think that the RW will not be as dramatic without Greywind's attempted warning to Robb and the mention of his trying to get to Robb. It was horribly sad in the book, where the wounded Robb was speaking of Greywind and his mother told him to go to him - I imagine that in the TV show, Robb will be preoccupied with Talisa. (I just hope that they remembered that it's Robb's mother, not Robb's wife, who killed an innocent man in her last moments, to avenge Robb) I doubt very much that Greywind will even be mentioned in the TV series during the Red Wedding; and if he does, some viewers may not even remember him.

I do understand why we see Dany's dragons more than we've seen the direwolves. Dragons are one of the series' most fantastical elements, a creature of pure magic that never existed in our world. Direwolves did exist on Earth; and wolves still do. The young direwolves of Season 1 look more like dogs than wolves (probably because they were played by Northern Inuit Dogs, not wolves or wolf-dogs; often, wolves in TV and movies are played by wolflike dogs, but sometimes they use wolves or hybrids.). The producers of the GOT TV series might have decided to pour more of their limited CGI budget into the dragons rather than the direwolves, for maximum appeal of an exotic creature to the audience.

There's another reason - it can be argued that the dragons are more influential in Daenerys' arc than the direwolves are in the Starks' plotlines. Both animals help and save their humans. But if the Starks had never found and raised the direwolf pups, they would still have the position and power they held in the first book and, except for Arya, into ACOK/ASOS. Without a direwolf soulmate, Robb would still be the respected son of Lord Stark and then be hailed as the King In The North himself; he would also have still won against the Lannisters as long as he did and captured Jaime Lannister. Bran would still have been regarded as The Stark in Winterfell without Summer; and be given precedence and protection as opposed to the smallfolk; and Osha would still have become Rickon's protector. Arya and Bran's lives were saved by the direct intervention of their wolves in AGOT (though we don't know for certain whether Joffrey would have killed Arya by the Trident or only wounded her); but their status as Lord Stark's children was never in doubt; Stark men would come to their defense. But Daenerys' awakening the dragons was a huge step forward for her; without them she would only have been the powerless widow of Khal Drogo. She would either have been forcibly hauled off to Vaes Dothrak or perhaps even killed, or fled with Jorah and ended up living with him either as his queen or his wife. She could have sold the dragon eggs and made enough coin to give her a comfortable life; but I doubt that she would have been able to get an army capable of conquering Westeros for them. But Dany changed from a girl whose only status was as Khal Drogo's wife/widow and the exiled last Targaryen to the Mother of Dragons. Aegon the Conqueror's dragons were the historic nuclear option; and no one has forgotten it. Everyone wants to either steal Dany's baby dragons or ally with her, or are taking steps to stop her; but they all respect and fear her now. Some of that has to do with her army of Unsullied; but she would not have been able to buy and free the Unsullied without the lure of a young dragon to sell. Dany's rise to power and influence was fueled by her having brought dragons into the world and the power she still has over at least one of them.

[The Pain Yak]

I also think its a bit funny how the 'negative nitpicking' thread is roughly 4 times the size of the 'positive nitpicking' thread.

At times, I honestly envy the 'Unsullied.' I'm not a book purist who throws a tantrum every time they change a line or a bit of characterization, or declares the show ruined without Patchface or Lollys Stokeworth or Shitmouth, and I actually think some changes made by the TV show have improved the story. I try to evaluate the TV series on its own merits.

Yet, when the TV series takes a perfectly good plot and changes it for no discernible reason whatsoever, how can't you compare it to the books and feel irritated? Consolidating Willas and Garlan Tyrell into Loras makes perfect sense, in order to save money on casting. Taking away all of Catelyn's screen time in her last season before she becomes UnCat is just completely bewildering.

[Winter In My Heart]

It is a shame that the direwolves are so absent in Season 3 (and much of Season 2). So much of the young Starks' identities and self-image is intertwined with them; metaphorically and emotionally. Arya's bond with Nymeria reflects her growing savagery as well as her tenacious connection with her Stark roots. Robb and Jon's wolves protect the boys in war and danger and in Jon's case, they do share dreams and a connection with Bran and Summer as well. Summer has saved Bran's life and helps him roam free in his dreams as he cannot in the real world. Shaggydog and little Rickon seem to influence each other emotionally most of all; perhaps because Rickon's parents left him when he was so young; and Shaggydog will be a tremendous protector to a young Stark orphan with only one human protector (though Osha's strength and courage cannot be under-estimated; Shaggydog is faster and even more fierce than she is). Sansa still mourns for Lady and thinks of her, and hears a wolf voice in the winds of the Vale.

I also think that the RW will not be as dramatic without Greywind's attempted warning to Robb and the mention of his trying to get to Robb. It was horribly sad in the book, where the wounded Robb was speaking of Greywind and his mother told him to go to him - I imagine that in the TV show, Robb will be preoccupied with Talisa. (I just hope that they remembered that it's Robb's mother, not Robb's wife, who killed an innocent man in her last moments, to avenge Robb) I doubt very much that Greywind will even be mentioned in the TV series during the Red Wedding; and if he does, some viewers may not even remember him.

I do understand why we see Dany's dragons more than we've seen the direwolves. Dragons are one of the series' most fantastical elements, a creature of pure magic that never existed in our world. Direwolves did exist on Earth; and wolves still do. The young direwolves of Season 1 look more like dogs than wolves (probably because they were played by Northern Inuit Dogs, not wolves or wolf-dogs; often, wolves in TV and movies are played by wolflike dogs, but sometimes they use wolves or hybrids.). The producers of the GOT TV series might have decided to pour more of their limited CGI budget into the dragons rather than the direwolves, for maximum appeal of an exotic creature to the audience.

There's another reason - it can be argued that the dragons are more influential in Daenerys' arc than the direwolves are in the Starks' plotlines. Both animals help and save their humans. But if the Starks had never found and raised the direwolf pups, they would still have the position and power they held in the first book and, except for Arya, into ACOK/ASOS. Without a direwolf soulmate, Robb would still be the respected son of Lord Stark and then be hailed as the King In The North himself; he would also have still won against the Lannisters as long as he did and captured Jaime Lannister. Bran would still have been regarded as The Stark in Winterfell without Summer; and be given precedence and protection as opposed to the smallfolk; and Osha would still have become Rickon's protector. Arya and Bran's lives were saved by the direct intervention of their wolves in AGOT (though we don't know for certain whether Joffrey would have killed Arya by the Trident or only wounded her); but their status as Lord Stark's children was never in doubt; Stark men would come to their defense. But Daenerys' awakening the dragons was a huge step forward for her; without them she would only have been the powerless widow of Khal Drogo. She would either have been forcibly hauled off to Vaes Dothrak or perhaps even killed, or fled with Jorah and ended up living with him either as his queen or his wife. She could have sold the dragon eggs and made enough coin to give her a comfortable life; but I doubt that she would have been able to get an army capable of conquering Westeros for them. But Dany changed from a girl whose only status was as Khal Drogo's wife/widow and the exiled last Targaryen to the Mother of Dragons. Aegon the Conqueror's dragons were the historic nuclear option; and no one has forgotten it. Everyone wants to either steal Dany's baby dragons or ally with her, or are taking steps to stop her; but they all respect and fear her now. Some of that has to do with her army of Unsullied; but she would not have been able to buy and free the Unsullied without the lure of a young dragon to sell. Dany's rise to power and influence was fueled by her having brought dragons into the world and the power she still has over at least one of them.

I see your point about why the dragons are shown more. At the very least I feel like they should show Grey Wind more. He'll be dead in two episodes so why not show him and cut but just a little on the cgi dragons? They'll have plenty of time to show them more whereas Lady is dead, Grey Wind will be, and Nymeria is missing. So they could at least show them more to keep people from forgetting. Do people even remember Robb had a wolf? And they haven't show Shaggydog even once. The last one has annoyed me to no end. They've skimped on Rickon so much both as a character and his wolf it's pathetic. I know he's not important in the books. (Or not yet anyway,) but its quite clear they don't care for the Stark characters at all. They skimp out on practically everything involving them.

I definitely understand people think the dragons are cooler but they least they could do is show the wolves a little bit more instead of making them basically nonexistent.

[Raksha the Demon]

Evidently it's more important to spend money on Ros and more random prostitutes (and the utterly unnecessary Joffrey sadist scenes), or the Littlefinger monologues (especially his revealing his deepest motivations to his employees as the ladies are practicing their girl-on-girl skills) and Podrick's becoming the toast of the KL prostitutes than to have more than a glimpse of the youngest Stark in seasons 2-3, or the Stark direwolves. Grey Wind who? :crying:

[Winter In My Heart]

Evidently it's more important to spend money on Ros and more random prostitutes (and the utterly unnecessary Joffrey sadist scenes), or the Littlefinger monologues (especially his revealing his deepest motivations to his employees as the ladies are practicing their girl-on-girl skills) and Podrick's becoming the toast of the KL prostitutes than to have more than a glimpse of the youngest Stark in seasons 2-3, or the Stark direwolves. Grey Wind who? :crying:

Agreed. Those sorts of pointless scenes annoy me to no end. =/

[Pinkie Baelish]

Evidently it's more important to spend money on Ros and more random prostitutes (and the utterly unnecessary Joffrey sadist scenes), or the Littlefinger monologues (especially his revealing his deepest motivations to his employees as the ladies are practicing their girl-on-girl skills) and Podrick's becoming the toast of the KL prostitutes than to have more than a glimpse of the youngest Stark in seasons 2-3, or the Stark direwolves. Grey Wind who? :crying:

Well, they're a lot cheaper to film, I guess. But yeah, I really wish that we got more direwolves. Where the hell is Ghost supposed to be? Was he at Craster's Keep? How will he reunite with Jon? But I'm sure we will get more of Grey Wind and Summer in ep9, although I would like to see Grey Wind's warning when they meet the Freys at the Twins.

[Moshroom]

I watched the episode four times so far and I don't think it's as bad as I first thought but the one thing that always annoyed me the most was Talisa's "Attack, attack!".

Though her character annoyed me since I first saw her. And why the hell is she pregnant? Does it mean we won't get Robb's will?

[Ran]

I actually thought the "Attack, attack" bit was refreshingly realistic (and well-delivered). I mean, if you're not allowed to be a bit silly and enthusiastic during pillow talk, then I don't know when.

[lannistergold]

I honestly can't remember whether it was this episode or the last, but Sam saying "more wood means more fire", needing the simple good sense of letting a fire "breathe" to be pointed out to him, bugged me. Yes, he's not supposed to be a naturally talented ranger. But when he's a Night's Watchman, I can't excuse him being a worse outdoorsman than me, when I'm not an outdoorsman at all.

[bobbybuilderton]

Evidently it's more important to spend money on Ros and more random prostitutes (and the utterly unnecessary Joffrey sadist scenes), or the Littlefinger monologues (especially his revealing his deepest motivations to his employees as the ladies are practicing their girl-on-girl skills) and Podrick's becoming the toast of the KL prostitutes than to have more than a glimpse of the youngest Stark in seasons 2-3, or the Stark direwolves. Grey Wind who? :crying:

I like to tell myself that TriPod is so that people remember him and aren't like uh why should we care when he goes looking for Tyrion. Sadly, sex is what sticks in people's minds

[Roose Seal]

I honestly can't remember whether it was this episode or the last, but Sam saying "more wood means more fire", needing the simple good sense of letting a fire "breathe" to be pointed out to him, bugged me. Yes, he's not supposed to be a naturally talented ranger. But when he's a Night's Watchman, I can't excuse him being a worse outdoorsman than me, when I'm not an outdoorsman at all.

Well this goes along the lines of him walking for days on end with nothing to eat and managing to stay as plump as ever.

[Joyful Union]

Evidently it's more important to spend money on Ros and more random prostitutes (and the utterly unnecessary Joffrey sadist scenes), or the Littlefinger monologues (especially his revealing his deepest motivations to his employees as the ladies are practicing their girl-on-girl skills) and Podrick's becoming the toast of the KL prostitutes than to have more than a glimpse of the youngest Stark in seasons 2-3, or the Stark direwolves. Grey Wind who? :crying:

This...doesnt make any sense. Ros, random prostitutes and Littlefinger monologues cost almost nothing compared to a CGI direwolf. Now, if you were to say that it was a waste of time, then that makes sense, as you can easily justify that the time could have been better used elsewhere.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Shaggydog has appeared this season. But only once I think. In episode 2 after Bran wakes up from his dream where Jojen appears. Here minute 1:27.

[Cas Stark]

Shaggy dog and Summer or even Ghost are not that important this season.

Grey Wind is going to get killed at the Red Wedding and have his head sewed on Robb Stark's body, presumably, unless they leave that out. So, showing Grey Wind and Robb together seems to me to make sense in order to build the dramatic content of the Red Wedding.

[Mulled Wino]

Exactly. I was specifically looking forward to this episode precisely because it was GRRM's episode. He penned two of the best episodes of the series so far and SoIaF is his baby, meaning he knows exactly how each character is meant to be presented. High expectations means disappointment comes easier.

I was hyping it up to my wife beforehand. After the episode, she said "Damn, he's a horny old man huh?"