EggBlue

23 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It’s especially weird that there’s now a panic that they’re going to “ruin” Daemon and Rhaenyra’s relationship. Many shippers have read FnB by now. Daemon isn’t some loving partner. He starts up his relationship with Mysaria again as soon as Rhaenyra takes the throne, then ditches her for a teenage girl. I can only imagine the amount of absurd hate Nettles’ actress will get when that happens.

I mean , in the book there was some chance that Daemon has an arc and changes slowly after his exile , but there's never much of a hint that he's a loving partner to Rhaenyra . in the show , Daemon's even worse and his love for Rhaenyra is clearly an obsession with Valyrian customs . so , I'm very much lost when it comes to all Daemon fans and Daemon/Rhaenyra shippers ... he may be his best self with Rhaenyra but she is her worst version with him... why is there so much love for this?! 

17 minutes ago, Ran said:

The clothing designs -- just look at what the ladies are wearing in the Vale. And speaking of the Vale, here's the Eyrie. And consider the initial design of the Great Sept that they thankfully eventually moved away from. The baroque and exaggerated Red Keep, as well, though that's something the new show has had to inherit... but you don't get many shots of its  towering heights compared to what you saw in GoT, I think. The grand sept and Dragonpit are huge, Romanesque buildings, very much grounded in real world architecture, OTOH.

The Lannister armor was inspired by Japanese samurai armor (to the point that, I was told, initially D&D wanted their swords to be katana-like, but apparently were talked out of it), for that matter, with the idea of a more fantastical, exotic mish-mash of styles. I suppose Cersei's clothing was also a bit Japanese-inspired. And so on. Clothing on HotD generally feels to be much more unified in styles across regions, and with some very deliberate references to medieval and Renaissance clothing in a way that GoT often strayed from. Jaime's whole get up for several seasons, with the leather coat with the flap closure that wouldn't be out of place on a WWI pilot....

I don't know, it read very far, in some places, from what I think George imagined personally, while this show is closer.

ah , yes I was thinking of Cersei's custums as I was asking that question . I don't think HOTD is much grounded in sets and armors(read Helmets). but yeah , in general I found HOTD to be closer to the image I got from the books.

54 minutes ago, Ran said:

 OTOH, visually F&B comes closer to capturing George's world. D&D deliberately wanted to push things into the more fantastical, in terms of architecture, set design, costume design, and away from the more grounded look that seems to permeate HotD.

umm... I agree with the rest of your post , but what is more fantastical about GoT's season1 ? I honestly don't recall...

2 hours ago, Adaneth said:

I don't know why she is surprised. Daemon has charisma. He's the classic "bad boy", if you will. He has bad things and good things going for him, which makes it interesting. And as you said, Matt Smith shines.

he's got mostly bad things going about him and unfortunately lacks the depth they are clearly giving Aemond with so little screen time (I thought it would be the other way around!) . I think Daemon shines because of Matt Smith ... and that's about it . 

2 hours ago, Adaneth said:

I think they have done a good job with the casting of Aemond too. Although the age difference between him and Aegon is very weird.

absolutely . this actor is great . re age differences , as others mentioned , Ewan Mitchel is younger than Tom Glynn-carney . considering Aegon is a pampered soft prince and Aemond is the warrior prince , I'm fine with their depictions . where it doesn't make sense is with Jace and Aemond's age difference . as far as we know , Jace and Aemond are pretty close in age , unless Alicent somehow managed to have Aemond when Rhaenyra was on her tour and they kinda forgot to tell/show the audience! 

7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I think we now will see the fallout of the problem I've been talking about since the show was first announced. If they don't properly depict the motivations and issues of the main characters, then the war will be uninteresting because we don't care about either party.

They tried with Alicent-Rhaenyra, but them rushing through things and not really starting to get them no longer being friends until the end of episode 5, skipping the time when their relationship deteriorated further, doesn't make it all that successful.

Much worse, I think, is the fact that Rhaenyra and Aegon didn't interact at all so far. Aegon presumably will kill Rhaenyra, and unless they make great changes the only time these characters will speak to each other will be when Aegon feeds Rhaenyra to Sunfyre.

Thus there would be no buildup for this at all.

I'm not saying there should have been many scenes with Aegon and Rhaenyra, but at least one to establish how they felt about each other. Do they like each other? Are they neutral about each other? Do they hate each other for reasons?

They botched this completely. This is significant once things go down to Rhaenyra and Aegon dealing with each other as pretenders - which will eventually happen. Otto and Alicent are but kingmakers, now it is up to Rhaenyra and Aegon to make peace or war.

The book clearly establishes that Aegon and Rhaenyra didn't like each other, meaning this would have also played into there being a war to a point. The show has Rhaenyra never talk about Aegon or any of her half-siblings at all, meaning we have literally no idea how she feels about them, while all references Aegon made about Rhaenyra imply he doesn't hate her and is actually pretty fine with her being the heir. Like Daemon, Aegon craved the love/recognition of Viserys, having more issues with the man not giving him much attention than with the fact that he didn't name him heir.

I said it already - they really missed the chance to include a scene with young Aegon and Viserys where the boy told his father that his mother told him he would be king one day, etc., wanting to know from the king whether this was true. And then Viserys making it crystal clear to Aegon that this would never happen.

I fully agree with this .

despite the fact that I found ep8 one of the best episodes of the season , I found myself quite uninterested in the show afterwards and one of the main reasons for that was the lack of any Aegon/Rhaenyra interactions in any shape or form . for all the clash of two women advertisements , the dance story is a war between two siblings . one that goes so far that Aegon becomes obsessed with ending his sister's line. 

4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It’s weird that, aside from name-dropping the Baratheons, EP9 did nothing to set up the other houses. Cregan Stark and Dalton Greyjoy are both hugely important characters in the war, and no one mentioned trying to win either of them over.

well , it's the show that there's no name dropping of Daeron the Daring although he's apparently gonna be in the show. so , I wouldn't say it's weird ! but disappointing !

I think Jace's education scene could've been way better with showing him interested in Westeros , say Starks and their strange gods , rather than dead old Valyrian language . book-Jace is a savvy politician who can befriend a Stark and convince an Arryn and a Manderly to join his mother's cause . he should also know enough of Westerosi history to be fully aware of weird first night rule ,unlike queen Alyssane, in order to use it in sowing of dragon seeds plot (probably without Mushroom's help!) . clinging to heritage and your slaver ancestors' dead language is all good and well for kings but not all that much when you have a foreign heritage in the kingdom you rule . i mean that I expect someone like Daemon to be interested in learning Valyrian history and someone like Jace to be interested in Westerosi one! 

17 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

Her reaction is equal to her emotional reluctance. She has schizophrenia so she responds with her emotional position which is that she loves Rhaenyra.  

But both her behavior and her thought process are in line with the conspiracy so this surprise does not manifest itself into any perceivable change of course making it fundamentally superfluous rather than idiotic. It would be idiotic if she tried to stop the coup she herself was planning for over a decade, that is not what is happening. 

She (Alicent) needs to be surprised to go through with Crowning Aegon as king because she is doing it as a dutiful wife, just as she had opposed Rhaenyra incessantly for her lack of duty.  

I wouldn't know much about the clinical diagnosis of schizophrenia. but frankly, I doubt it was intentional on the writers' part to make Alicent anything but a sympathetic antagonist. whether a schizophrenia patient or a stupid naïve girl without agency,  she has become an incompetent villain which is just boring. 

On 10/17/2022 at 10:11 PM, BlackLightning said:

I thought it was Daeron.

my first thought too! 

is Daeron going to be in the show? I'm getting worried, I expected that someone mentions him in ep8's dinner ... 

8 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

How is she an idiot this episode? Alicent’s emotional reluctance is not reflected in her behavior.

who said anything about her emotional reluctance? she is an idiot because she's been accusing Rhaenyra of high treason for 16 yrs and had been telling her children that Aegon will be king but even though SHE (and not Otto) was present in Kingslanding undermining Rhaenyra for the majority of this period, she is completely surprised to see other council members do not need her flimsy lucky excuse of Viserys's dying wish to prepare for Aegon's coronation. so, what was Alicent's plan, if Otto hadn't schemed beforehand? she is certain that Rhaenyra and Daemon won't bend the knee, yet, she thinks she can keep Aegon king and keep Rhaenyra alive. ummm... how?! 

8 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

If this makes you happy, know the Blacks suffer more from this dynamic, stripped of their personality and philosophical distinctions.

I don't know why you have to make this a race between Blacks and Greens. we are talking about character writing. at least, I am. 

it's become a routine by this point: a very good episode ending in idiocy. 

Aegon and Aemond's stories have been pretty good in these episodes and all 4 actors (teen and adult ) were brilliant. Tom Glynn-carney was a highlight for me in ep9. Aegon's coronation scene and Aegon's shift from doubt to joy and embracing kinghood could've been a perfect ending to the episode. I also loved Arryk and Errik's story.

Alicent turned from the Mean Girl in ep6 to the Mad Queen in ep7 to the tired mother missing her old friend she's been a bitch to in ep8 and a total idiot in ep9. I suppose they did this to make her a sympathetic character, but she's just turned out messy and incompetent. 

Rhaenys's final scene was the stupidest thing in the episode. we KNOW there's a dragon entrance to the dragonpit, if she was so merciful, why did she make a hole in the floor and killed hundreds of innocents, men, women, and children, in the process? though, I give the writers this, this sloppy killing of smallfolk will work well for the shepherd plot.

4 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I din't know, I think she's definitely more like Cersei.

Rhaenyra had always felt more like a Catelyn Tully to me . 

3 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I don’t know if you guys watched the BTS,

what? I thought BTS was a band!

3 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

but the kid who played Aemond was so darn cute. He also posted on Instagram about how happy he was that people liked the episode, and how he was worried people were going to hate him 

this kid was definitely the highlight of ep7 for me .

2 hours ago, Cashless Society said:

Wouldn't this then make both Otto and Alicent idiots? Alicent would already be alerted to Otto seeking to usurp the throne from Rhaenyra, making his every action suspicious from Alicent's point-of-view. When he tells Viserys of Rhaenyra's activities in the brothel, Alicent wouldn't need to go speak to Rhaenyra about as she could reasonably conclude that this is Otto scheming. Alicent also comes across as unlikeable too early, as instead of warning her friend of the scheming going on she does absolutely nothing about it.

not an idiot ,i guess . and yeah it'll make Alicent suspicious but I wouldn't be so sure that she'd jump into conclusion about her father before talking to Rhaenyra . her talk to Rhaenyra makes her just completely sure that she should stay by Rhaenyra's side which later leads to her father's dismissal . something that for a 18-20 yr old girl who already feels isolated will be very upsetting to say the least , never mind if Otto deserves that or not . then, Otto scolds her about being too naive and trusting and reminds her again that Rhaenyra won't be her friend and will pose a danger to her kids, afterwards Larys makes her doubt her decision further and talking with Cole makes her completely sure that her father's right and that Rhaenyra's just a brat who'd been manipulating her and she should not put it passed her to become a kinslayer after all .

22 minutes ago, DMC said:

I didn't say that, I said he pushes Aegon as heir.  This is again really splitting hairs.

I know. I was just pointing out the difference . don't get me wrong .I find the show enjoyable as it is but they only needed small details to better deliver Alicent's transition . as it is , she was almost completely flipped in one episode. Rhaenyra's betrayal was not that big and definitely not that personal to make Alicent change her beliefs altogether and never go back ,for 10 yrs. she needed doubts beforehand for the betrayal to work as the last nail to the coffin . it's like ep3&4 are wasted in that particular regard .

7 hours ago, DMC said:

....isn't this roughly what happens?  Otto pushes Aegon as heir in episode 3 and Alicent balks because she still believes in her friendship with Rhaenyra?  My memory isn't perfect, but that was definitely episode 3 or 4.

nope. in that episode Otto talks about Aegon becoming king but he doesn't express any worries about what might happen to Aegon and what lords may expect from Rhaenyra to do . it's not even remotely implied that there could be any legitimate concern for Alicent's children until ep5 which gets all hyped up in ep6. I think for this fear to work Alicent should reject it first and then goes back to thinking about it and questioning it after Rhaenyra's "betrayal of trust" . furthermore , they had laid the ground work for Alicent to think Rhaenyra might not want the throne anyways which could make her more open to the idea of king Aegon roughly from the beginning . 

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

I really don't think it's unearned.  Episode 5 starts with Otto guilting her and warning her about this.  Then we see her isolated and Larys planting doubts, then we see her learning the truth from Cole.  THAT'S the turn, and it's all interconnected.  If you don't like it or think it isn't played out enough, fair enough, but it's all there.

yeah , it's not a if  , as I said later in the same post , they did do some things . but like I said, I personally don't think it's enough . in episodes 1&2 Alicent is confused about how she feels about the whole Viserys thing . although , there's the episode 1 Heart Tree conversation that's pretty much suggestive that Alicent could be ambitious . then ep3&4 instead of giving a slowly growing ambition alongside the growing jealousy in ep4 and righteousness problems thanks to conventional background, we get a backwards to simply loyal Alicent . then everything else is cramped in first half of ep5 . opportunity was right there in ep3. Otto could mention that he worries about what others may make Rhaenyra do to her half-siblings with Alicent completely rejecting the idea. only for her to rethink it in ep5. 

9 hours ago, Elaena Targaryen said:

But I do believe if the Greens threw their full support behind Rhaenyra, or dare I say it the Blacks throwing their full support for Aegon, everything would have have been fine and might have even ushered in a second age Valyria. However this story is a tragedy.

that's totally right . there were so many ways that this family could prevent civil war in the show . the notion that Alicent thinks her children are in danger and thus pushes Aegon's claim is rather comical to me.* if she truly feared for her children , she would have adopted Aegon's plan and didn't present any challenge and would have welcomed Haelaena/Jace offer . on the other hand, Rhaenyra , who was fully aware that people may favor Aegon over her and that Alicent was starting to become an enemy ,  could have tried to form a relationship with her half-siblings , in order to both make sure they stay loyal and to lessen Alicent's paranoia after Otto's departure . heck , going by the book she could suggest taking Aegon as her new consort after Laenor's death , never mind her pride! while in the show , if there was smallest hope to prevent a war after Aemond's incident , Rhaenyra cemented the enmity by taking Daemon as her husband . especially that she didn't even need to marry Daemon to have him by her side whenever war began.**

*honestly, it feels rather unearned . Alicent's transition should have been slowly and over those first five episodes . they did some things but that wasn't nearly enough . they could easily utilize Alicent's conventional views to have her slowly think about Aegon's claim (with daddy's help , to be sure) . Rhaenyra and Alicent's talk over Aemma's new child in ep1 where Rh doesn't care about her position and Alicent thinks that's something to care about could be a perfect start to show Alicent's ambition which they completely dropped afterwards. Alicent could be sympathetic and ambition both at the same time and it would have made her a great villain . 

** a detail I really liked in this episode was Daemon and Otto's reactions to the whole Alicent-Rhaenyra scene . they both stayed as observers in a doorway , seemed proud and they were both clearly enjoying the mess they had made .it's evident that in the show if anyone's to blame for the dance it's Otto (the guy who pimped his own daughter and sees his grandsons as his pawns) and Daemon( a guy who groomed his own niece) . although, I still blame Jaeherys in the book. 

12 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

I don't think Aemond does actually care (much) about Helaena - his willingness (or desire) to marry his sister seems to represent his ambition as a Targaryen. He would like to be a king, he would like to keep the royal bloodline pure as proper Targaryens are wont to do. The dialogue is about Aegon not understanding what's expected of him, thinking personality and looks are important in arranged marriages, and not the purity of royal blood.

Aemond understands why Alicent betrothed Helaena to Aegon ... but Aegon himself does not.

oh , I don't think he cares about Haelaena. he just seems to be the only one who knows and cares what Alicent tries to do . he's also a 10 yr old child , so , rather than  putting it on solely "ambition" , I think he's after proving himself to the world and that includes having a dragon , listening to mother and how she wants to put them in position of power and swordplay .

12 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Oh, I think she can suffer from anxiety and be a lot in her rooms ... but it should have (also) to do with her dreams and stuff, and not only with Blood and Cheese. But, of course, the trauma should not be erased or not depicted ... although I think they should also include Alicent there who is there as well. She may not have to make the choice, but she is there as well and can do nothing to help her daughter and grandchildren and is forced to witness it all.

I mean , it's fair to say by giving dreams to Haelaena instead of making her the happy child of F&B , they intend to give her dream madness instead of grieving madness . my theory is that her dreams will be more frequent and more vivid after her child's death which she would welcome , trying to shut down her dark memory , only for them to give her more reason to grieve for. but these three women's arcs should be handled delicately . basically, they'll all have to deal with loss of their children and in the book are presented as mad queens which is a real letdown for literally half of the women in the Dance. 

18 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Alicent pretty much gave Aegon permission to bully Aemond, and she was pissed that he made a fool of himself in the Dragonpit. She expresses some concern, but it seems to be more about one of her children being attacked than actual concern for Aemond.

Aemond doesn't know that . in general , Alicent doesn't seem to care about her children the way Rhaenyra does . she loves them of course the way you have to love your family , but she thinks Aegon is an embarrassing fool and Haelaena is a weirdo . with Daeron in Oldtown , her only child is Aemond who unlike his siblings in fact seems to listen to mother's words very carefully . hence , he knows and repeats well about Strongs , Alicent's plans for Aegon and the value of a brother-sister match . 

18 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I hope they tone down Helaena's post-Blood and Cheese breakdown and make it more about her having more and more dreadful prophetic dreams.

me too . it'll be a huge miss if they don't . besides, Alicent will be enough as a mad queen . Rhaenyra and Haelaena need other paths. 

34 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I'm also looking forward to the dynamics in the Green family there - Aemond has also little reason to love his mother and his grandfather, so he could be also instrumental in pushing them out of power.

we have seen so little of their interactions .but while Aegon and Haelaena have little to interest Alicent , Aemond seems to be the favorite and on the other hand Aemond seems to be the one sibling who's gonna truly love their mother especially after seeing she is the only person in their family who would stand up for him . additionally , Alys Rivers , a brunette same age as his mom, is right there to give us some sick complexity in his feelings.  

re, Aegon , Aemond already seems to feel he is worthier than Aegon before claiming Vhagar . so, it's not out of question that as prince regent he wanted to rule permanently or even eventually usurp Aegon and marry Haelaena like a true Targaryen. 

ps. I still think I'll be rooting for Aemond against Daemon in the show . while ,Aemond seems to be on the path of a bullied kid turning into a the biggest villain, Daemon had barely had an arc so far . he's been a sociopath right from the start , and it's only when he is with Rhaenyra that he seems normal (factoring creepy uncle angle!) , a relationship we already know will go downhill when he goes to his next lonely dragon lady teenager . 

17 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

But the show really went out of its way to make Otto and Alicent and Aemond pretty sympathetic. They are three-dimensional characters now, and you feel for them. But their actions and plans still suck and they are just wrong.

so , you think I can't hope they'll skip mass-murderer Aemond part or cold kinslayer Aemond?! because , I've really started liking this kid (special thanks to the kid actor) . believe it or not , show has done something that I'm rooting for Aemond to kill Daemon above god's eye . not the other way around! 

4 hours ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

The  WHY of the lighting of the episode should be discussed not defamed. 
Why is the choice made to show a character bathed in light at times and at other times shrouded in black night shadows? Is the light a character in the show? Are day, night, shadows also a character in the show? The choice is yours. Put on a thinking cap or don a jingle belled one.

the why of it is Vhaegar ( night light=less details on dragon=longer , better delivered scene ) and the fact that it works better if all the scenes are consistently following one another , instead of having Aemond go to sleep and then wake up in the middle of the night to go to Vhaegar.

now we should ask why it's so dead dark that nothing can be seen? that is not a creative choice . that's bad technic .

37 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

I think the incest is much more problematic than the polygamy to be honest. Jaehaerys' decision-making there confuses me.

what's so confusing ? he wanted to marry his sister . that's all . 

personally , I think polygamy is worse . unless , incest is between parent-child or creepy older uncle/aunt-niece/nephew .

5 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

One decision they’ve made this season that I find questionable is how little they’ve done to introduce the other major players from the Dance. Hobert and Jason have had cameos, and Borros will presumably show up in the last episode (although he doesn’t do much until after Rhaenyra is dead), but other than that, there’s been nothing. I feel like it’s going to be overwhelming for viewers when all these predominantly male characters, who will look quite similar in their armor, are introduced and then almost immediately killed off. I think they’ll probably change some of the battles so that at least one main character is on each side. Jace and Daemon will probably fight a few more battles before taking KL, and Aegon might get injured later. 

One of my critiques of the Dance is that I think Jace was killed off too soon, so I wouldn’t be displeased if they changed that on the show. That said, I still expect for him to be the “big, shocking death” at the end of S2, just like Luke will be this season.

that's one of the things they had inevitably lost , when they decided on the structure . if they had done pre-dance in two seasons, say with child versions of the kids in season 1 ending with Rh&D wedding and with their teen versions in season2 , they could have enough time to establish alliances outside of the family , loyalties of council members , Velaryon and Strong families , etc. but I think with their decision to have 30 yrs in 1 season , they were successful enough to flesh out Hobert , Jason and Bormund. so , yeah , introducing all those characters will be a bit difficult next season , but it's a show that's introducing and killing fairly important characters per episode! 

4 hours ago, Painted Dog said:

But I'll join in hoping we see plenty of scenes with Jace before we lose him.  I think I'm more just Team Bastard than Team Black or Green.  Hopefully they will do them all justice on the show.

yep, that's my team as well:) they could end season 2 with Rook's Rest and season3 with Gullet if they want . needs some imagination, but still possible! 

33 minutes ago, SeanF said:

At least to me, the source material does make the Greens in general, and Alicent in particular, out to be despicable.

That may not be what Martin intended but it's how it comes over to me, and it seems, a great many readers. I can feel sympathy for Alicent, simply because the last years of her life were so awful, and she had to witness the deaths of her children and grandchildren, but that doesn't alter that she was a  terrible person.

that's my read as well . but the show made an attempt to make her sympathetic with MANY likeable qualities and for half the season at that , only to jump 10 years and change it 180 degrees . besides, if you don't want to have a smooth transition between the years and want to leave so much to imagination , it's better to use flashbacks for the past and spend time on getting deep into adult characters throughout the season rather than use a linear structure with far too many time jumps. 

4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The idea that Rhaenyra being suspected of having a hand in Laenor’s death is a good thing, since it will make people fear her, is really quite dumb. Rhaenyra is a woman; any mark on her reputation will only hinder her cause, not help it. Rohanne Webber always took swift action against those who sought to defy her, yet even she saw no gain in being accused of murdering her husbands. It made people fear her, but it also made her more vulnerable to bad actors and people who wanted to supplant her.

But the even bigger risk is that if Rhaenys and Corlys suspect that Rhaenyra arranged for Laenor’s death, then Rhaenyra will have alienated one of the most powerful families in the realm, who have access to both the largest fleet and a dragon. They know the boys aren’t Laenor’s. They could easily turn against Rhaenyra if she pushed them too far.

yes , I think they should 1. show that Rhaenyra's decision to choose Daemon and fear was pretty dumb (they call her Maegor after all , and it can be for being fearsome and crazy ... rather than just taxes) 2. Rhaenys and Corlys get to know what happened to their son . .. otherwise it makes no sense . 

4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The problem is, I don’t know if the show is going to portray this as a bad decision that backfires on her or if they’ll instead spin it as an act of cunning. I’ve lost faith that the show will portray her in a negative light, so I really don’t know.

The funny thing is, if viewed in isolation, adult Rhaenyra may be my favorite character on the show. My problem is how they abandoned all the strides they made in improving the characters during the first half of the season and instead cast Rhaenyra as the hero and Alicent as the villain. (And yes, they have made Alicent a villain. When an American showrunner describes a character as “women for Trump,” he does not mean it as a compliment or even just as a neutral observation. That’s the state of our culture right now). Maybe they’ll try to tip the scales again further down the road, but at the moment I’m disappointed.

young Rhaenyra was a bit bratty and spoiled but that's a long way from showing her in actual negative light or to depict her as capable of doing monstrous things. in a way, adult Rhaenyra is still bratty , spoiled and quite frankly selfish . she 's just more matured now and has the merit of being compared to full villain Alicent. but the whole "Laenor's death" plot ,for example, is a stupid ploy to get Daemon and to think she needs him is just silly ! if there was the slightest chance to make peace with Greens despite Aemond's eye , it is all gone with Daemon at her side . and to be honest , I found the fact that she thinks she saves face quite hilarious! she's had three bastards with a dark haired guy with no similarity to her husband and she doesn't even make the excuse of being desperately in love !  one would imagine a need to be desired doesn't take 10 yrs with one politically incorrect lover .

24 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

@Minsc

I agree. I wouldn't complain about the Dance half as much as I do if the Greens were at least as competent as they are unlikable but they aren't and that makes it hard to stay interested in the conflict because there's no genuine tension.

Btw, who is the smug guy in front of Aemond in the episode 8 trailer? Aegon or Daeron because if its supposed to be Aegon the actor looks both younger and shorter than the actor for adult Aemond, who I have a good feeling about despite him having only one line in the trailer. Something about the way the actor says "nephews" just exudes confidence and danger.

that's Aegon . and yeah , totally agree with your post . I hope they make Aemond competent and sympathetic to balance the Dance a bit . with whatever they've done with Daemon and Larys , I don't think we need more purely maniac characters in the show, especially on Green side.

15 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Addam and Laenor can coexist. In fact, they literally did. Why does everyone think that they cannot coexist?

LOL. they did coexist , I haven't forgotten ! for me , it's about the role . what will be Laenor's role if Addam does what he does in the book? besides ,  Corlys brought Hull boys because he either wanted his remaining sons/grandkids to be with him after losing both his children and his wife ,or he was desperate for a male heir . with Laenor in the picture , there's no need of that and Corlys can't name the boys Laenor's to avoid disrespecting Rhaenys's memory . unless ,of course, they are actually Laenor's ! 

18 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Absolutely. Although I would prefer it for Laenor to be called back to Westeros after Rhaenyra takes the Iron Throne so that he can take his place as the first of her two husbands.

I think that'll be a good idea . it'll be more understandable for people to call her Maegor if she openly runs her court with two kings . later on , Laenor could deal with Tumbleton and Alyn could be a cousin who gets Driftmark by marrying Baella as lady of Driftmark . I'll miss Addam though .