TrueMetis
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Posts posted by TrueMetis
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3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:
This looks like a totally legitimate way of fighting a war and taking prisoners. /s
There are literal children in those line ups. Like it's a war crime regardless but holy shit the depravity.
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4 hours ago, Darryk said:
If you want a one-state solution, too fucking bad. It ain't happening.
Thinking America or anyone else is going to be able to convince Muslims in that region to stop hating Jews then you're barmy.
The colonisation narrative is bullshit. Palestine was a Roman, then Ottoman, then British territory where both Jews and Muslims were living for centuries. The UN divided it up between the two. If you don't like that solution then go cry about India and Pakistan.
And if you don't think people should "cry all they want about the past" then why are you crying about a supposed "colonisation" that happened 100 years ago?
The colonization narrative is bullshit? Israel is creating settlements in the West Bank right fucking now, what else do you want that to be called but colonization? It didn't just happen 100 years ago it's happening right now.
And if the UN lends such legitimacy to arbitrarily cutting you're country up let's let them do it to your country and see how you feel about it. Talking about it becoming Roman, Ottoman, then British to say it's not colonization, like those Empires are famous for not colonizing anything. Out of your god damn mind.
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Settlers have been armed by the government and given IDF protection as they attack Palestinians in the West Bank, they have enormous amounts of power, saying anything else is a lie to make yourself feel better. That fucking tweet is not what allows them to force hundred of settlements into the west bank despite international pressure against it.
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And they keep doing this type of thing.
For anyone wondering if the killing of the hostages was how the IDF operated with the only difference being these guys were Israeli, yeah pretty much.
QuoteGivati, a former combat soldier, said the IDF always finds a way to justify its actions as an "operational error" or "not intentional," adding the lack of any real consequences for the killings or abuse of Palestinians has created a "permissive" atmosphere to use lethal force against civilians — including children.
Which if you know anything about the military at all, you could pretty much have guessed from the beginning.
Most moral army in the world, just acting how anyone would in this situation.
FFS, even if I accepted that was true, and I don't I do genuinely think people are better than that, when the fuck did giving into our baser urges become an excuse? And perhaps more importantly, why does this go in only one direction? Actually, much like with whether or not what happened with the hostages was common, I'm pretty sure I already know the answer.
- Rippounet, Crixus and Craving Peaches
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Absolutely amazing to claim that murder is the exception for the IDF just days after they killed three people with white flags including chasing one of them down to kill him while he yelled for help in Hebrew.
Israel can literally do no wrong in some people's eyes.
- Craving Peaches, Crixus and Zorral
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Is "We don't care if they're killed as long as doing so doesn't involve killing thousands of innocent civilians or rendering Gaza uninhabitable" holding them to a high or low standard? Whine all you want about people not holding the IDF to the same standard as Hamas, but I've not seen anyone here call for the IDF's destruction or simply not care if it gets destroyed so any complaints about being held to different standards seems pretty pathetic in the face of that.
- Craving Peaches and Crixus
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The linked story is kind of a great example of the information problem I've been banging on about, Israel says these are photos of surrendered terrorists, Hamas says they're civilians with one news agency claiming one guy as one of their journalists. And regardless of either of those things, you've got pictures of blindfolded naked men kneeling there while soldiers stand above them. Unless humiliation is the point, this seems like a bad move in general.
It's like the reports of IDF snipers shooting civilians, I can't really find good sources on the claims. Though I admit I don't have that much trouble believing it since we know they've done so in the past.
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1 hour ago, Zorral said:
Because outside entities and orgs have found the stats provided by Gazan medical and stat groups to be reliable.
Whereas, as mentioned, Israelbibiblahblah have been proven to be unreliable and liars of omission and commission many many many times. NOT ALWAYS, but very very very often in regard to anything to do with Palestinians, Gaza and the West Bank, and even killing innocent people.
Somebody linked a Times of Israel article saying the IDF agrees largely with those numbers it's just how many were Hamas fighters that is in question, so I'm not sure why we're still playing the "did that many people *really* die" game here.
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15 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:
There are reports that Israel is considering flooding the tunnels with seawater.
Which is just a dozen kinds of stupid, and not just because they're apparently deciding fuck the hostages but in a "Hey we're already facing issues with soil and ground water salination because of how much water we've pumped out of the local aquifers, let's make things even worse by deliberately flooding the land with salt water" way. Though if you're the kind of country that deliberately destroys millions of thousand year old olive trees I guess taking care of the land isn't much of a concern.
- Craving Peaches, kissdbyfire, Crixus and 1 other
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Strictly speaking I would say they're all involved in attacks on Palestinians, but it's a start.
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8 hours ago, Darzin said:
Yes the ground invasion seems to be going well. I've seen some people say that Israel will never be able to root out Hamas by comparing this conflict to America's misadventures in the Middle East but I don't think the comparison holds Gaza is very small and essentially a city it's a lot easier to secure that than an entire country.
I mean, the ground part of Afghanistan also went very well, the Taliban never had any hope of taking on coalition forces head on literally anywhere. TBH I don't know why this expert was surprised that Hamas folded so easily in the face of troops on the ground, that is 100% the expected thing. Insurgents generally suck at armed engagements and win through traps and sabotage. It's when they disappear into hiding that things get difficult. That will be the key here, can Hamas fighters hide effectively and are they able to escape to areas the IDF can't reach like the Taliban did with Pakistan.
4 hours ago, Zorral said:Israel’s assault forced a nurse to leave babies behind. They were found decomposing.
A nurse at al-Nasr hospital was caring for premature babies. Then he faced the most difficult decision of his life.https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/03/gaza-premature-babies-dead-nasr/
Some of the comments are, well, I'll just say hysterical, essentially blaming the babies, the medical personnel, etc -- and the WaPo for even reporting such things, including in this story that the Israelis, demanding the hospital be evacuated of everyone, insisted they would take care of the babies, but they didn't, and the evacuees also were attacked at various times, while one of the nurses, forced to evacuate, sneaked back some days later, and sneaked into the hospital, where he found the decomposing babies.
My response to this, as is that of so many others, "The whole world is watching."
This bodes very badly for the future.
Most moral army in the world.
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So uh, how does this impact that whole "Israel is being very selective in its targets, those casualties are unavoidable" thing? Cause I just straight up don't believe an "AI" could be anymore accurate than throwing darts at a map. Shit you'd probably get better input by booting up a copy of Steel Talons and have the aircraft copy the inputs from the game.
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15 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said:
They had better options. They could have taken the time to come up with better options. The US response to 9/11, or Israel's response to Munich, there are examples of terrorism being handled with more thought and planning. And you'd think that limiting the radicalization of future terrorists would play into that calculus.
My point being, that saying "they had to do something" to explain the response to the Oct. 7 attack is obvious at best, but when used to justify or rationalize it, it is just plain wrong. Because the implication is they didn't have other options. Beyond that, it's a logical mess. You can explain anything by saying "they had to do something ".
This idea that "you can't have it both ways" is founded on the false premise that there were no other effective choices.
Which is just fucking astonishing given what a shit show that ended up being, and also another example of "they had to do something when... no they didn't. Doing literally nothing would have been a better outcome that what ended up happening in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Also, and I know that this is going to piss people right off, but just "armed resistance against Israel" isn't a problem. They're an occupying force, killing their soldiers is fine actually. Bunch of ya'll are American how can not get this? It's the specific method they use that is the issue, the attacking civilians and calling for genocide, if they stuck to military targets then there would be no real ground to condemn them.
Like I know this is something of a quibble because Hamas very much did not *just* advocate armed resistance against Israel, but I have to reject the idea that doing so alone would be something to condemn. -
4 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:
I’m all for checking who and what we link here, and I have been especially careful since I posted a tweet that was obvious misinformation.
That said, if the person posting is fairly satisfied w/ the content they’re posting, I don’t think they have to be subjected to an interrogation about their post. Anyone w/ any doubts about what has been posted is free to go look it up themselves.Same here, there's a lot I could post, but I can't actually verify the claims I've seen about the IDF harrassing the families of the hostages they're releasing so I don't.
But it's not like the mainstream sources are themselves that great, I've complained about them just straight up ignoring things in the past. And that doesn't even get into the accusations of them just being straight up wrong on some stuff, like here's an accusation of the BBC getting a translation just like, completely wrong. In a way that could not possibly be accidental. I don't speak Arabic, so I have no idea how I'm supposed to handle something like this.
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10 hours ago, JoannaL said:
Thats nonsense, sorry I do not understand what you want to say. What did 2 year old girls do? Isreal did not detain any young children. Only the Hamas terrorist did. Obviously there is a difference.
What did the the people who are held under indefinite detention without any charges or conviction do?
The guy who I talked about was *13* when he was arrested and convicted despite being acknowledged not to have done the thing he was convicted of. Despite being *under the age of criminal culpability in Israel* (not even getting into the weeds of Israels authority to arrest given the crime did not happen in Israel at all) Israel does not detain any young children my ass.
I'm very much reminded of people refusing to call Tamir Rice a child.
ETA: And this doesn't even get into the point as you instead try to quibble over severity instead of what was actually said. Which is that unlawful detainment is unlawful detainment. Regardless of who it's done to. But I'm not convinced you don't actually understand that, just that you recognize you can't actually argue against it and so want to shift the conversation elsewhere. Which, no. I've made my point about the kind of people the IDF detain, and I'm not interested in sitting there and getting into the weeds of which of two inhumane criminal acts is the worst as though that will do anything.
Some of the people are getting released, some finally get to go home after being treated terribly, and that's great. But if you really do want to talk about the differences between the two? Here's a thought for you, only some of the hostages being released will get to go home and be without the constant spectre that the people who kidnapped them will be able to imprison them again whenever the hell they want.
ETA2: Realizing the way I phrased it is ambiguous, what I meant here was that many of them will still live in places the IDF controls, obviously everyone who was held hostage on both sides went through a traumatic event and even after being released the fear of it happening again will be with them.
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Small thing, but for the first time the media seems to be actually pushing back Poilievre's lies, and the right is predictably melting down.
Quick timeline:
On Wednesday at ~2:20 PM EST Poilievre asks for an update in the HoC referring to the accident on the Rainbow bridge saying "We've just heard media reports of a terrorist attack, an explosion, at the Niagara crossing of the Canada-U.S. border"
The next day at a press conference a journalist asks if jumping to a terrorist attack is responsible, and after spending some time attacking the journalist reiterates that there we're media reports, specifically highlighting CTV and a tweet they made. One small problem, the tweet and the article the tweet links to came out *after* his remarks in the house, happening at 2:50 PM EST and 2:39 PM EST respectively. But also, during the press conference he twists the narrative saying the CTV report said the government is operating on the assumption that the incident was a terrorist attack, which it did, but is pretty significantly different that reporting that it is a terrorist attack which is what he said in the HoC, and which he says a couple more times later during the press conference.
Some have tried to defend this deflection by pointing to a slightly earlier CTV article that also made the point about operating on the assumption of a terrorist attack, but again that's different from actually reporting a terrorist attack and couldn't be what he was referring to in the press conference anyway as there was no tweet associated with it. And also that the investigation will initially be operating under the assumption of a terrorist attack shouldn't be something someone who's been in Parliament for 19 fucking years needs the media to tell him.
Anyway, ultimately this isn't a huge deal, and would be a total non issue if the man was capable of just not shifting blame and trying to attack people. But it's nice to see the media not ignore his bullshit for a change. Also I listened to his press conference a couple times to make sure I had the details correct and wanted to talk about this somewhere after having to listen to the smug dickhead.
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11 minutes ago, mormont said:
Kidnapping, to me, implies taking someone for exchange - money, concessions, whatever. That's not what Israel is doing.
What Israel is doing is abhorrent, don't get me wrong. And you're right, getting into a 'which atrocity is worse' contest is usually unproductive. But equally, the comparison invites equivalence here, and that offers nothing of value to the argument.
Kidnapping is just unlawful detainment, no exchange required. Like child abductions are often done by a parent and there's never any demand or ransom made but that's absolutely a kidnapping. Didn't realize this was controversial.
Though if you think they're not getting anything by showing they have complete power over the populace and there's basically nothing that can be done to stop them IDK what to tell you. I guess technically that's not like, directly in exchange for something. Although given they're constantly using these people to swap for IDF soldier that get captured and the like I'm not sure how by even you're definition they aren't hostages.
And yeah, I am equating them. Because they are in fact equivalent. You don't need to get into the nitty gritty of each individual kidnapping victim to understand that one group of individuals unlawfully held against their will is much like another group of individuals unlawfully held against their will in that they're being unlawfully held against their will, IE kidnapped.
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The hell are you talking about? One kidnapping victim being worse does not make another kidnapping victim not a kidnapping victim, which is all I said.
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8 hours ago, GrimTuesday said:
It's an apartheid regime, they don't actually need reasons to arrest people. Palestinians can be arrested for any reason the IDF/the Israeli police feel like, including walking on certain streets that have been declared sterile, meaning that only Jews can walk on them. Beyond that, in a lot of the cases, they haven't even been charged with anything, Israel can hold them in indefinite detention for the smallest of infractions, which does in effect amount to being kidnapped. .
And the reason that it is notable is the fact that Israeli hostages are "females and children" while Palestinians are "females and teenagers". In case you're unaware, teenagers are children, and framing it that way makes it seem like they are dangerous youths or terrorist in training or some shit like that. It's the same thing as how Israelis are killed vs Palestinians just die, it's using different language depending on which side of the conflict they are on to elicit specific perceptions of events.
Yeah, hundred, thousands, are being held on indefinite detention with no conviction or obviously nonsense convictions. These are as much kidnapping victims as the victims of Hamas. And then people have the gall to complain about people being to mean to Israel, even as they given cover to the kidnapping, torture, and sexual abuse of Paletstinians, including children, by the IDF. And don't pretend otherwise, that is exactly what you're doing by accepting Israel's framing.
For an illustrative example of the Israeli "justice" system for Palestinians, let's look at the case of Ahmad Manasra: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/06/israel-opt-palestinian-prisoner-arrested-as-a-child-ahmad-manasra-still-in-prison-despite-worsening-mental-health/
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/07/un-experts-urge-israel-free-ahmad-manasra
In 2015 when Ahmed was 13 he was arrested for involvement in the stabbing of two settlers in a illegal settlement in East Jerusalem, he was interrogated and threatened without a lawyer present, and despite being found to have not been the one to have stabbed either victim was convicted anyway and has been in prison ever since. Including long bouts in solitary confinement.
Uncritically accepting these convictions amounts to uncritically accepting the conviction of black people in Jim Crow America.
But then, what can I expect from people who complain about calling a country settler-colonist when it has literal settlements on foreign territory.
- kissdbyfire, Kalbear, Craving Peaches and 1 other
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4 hours ago, Zorral said:
Not on the West Bank, and quite a few other places, except the firing was done by Israelis taking other people's land and homes or just for funsies.
29 Israeli deaths, 227 Palestinian death in 2023 before Oct 7th. Now that I think about it, maybe the switch from ceasefire to humanitarian pause makes sense, because the fire does not in fact seem to cease much.
Videos of released hostages are good to see though, hopefully we'll see announcements of even more soon.
Israel - Hamas war XIV
in General Chatter
Posted
Yes, once you've determined they're safe you absolutely return their clothes. This is humiliation and sexual harassment and a literal on camera violation of the Geneva conventions and nothing else.