Wow, I Never Noticed That V.3 Eyes Wide Shut Edition

[J. Stargaryen]

To add to my above post, I just remembered something that makes the connection a lot stronger. Right before Wylla launches into her speech, her mother says to her:

“Hush, child,” said Lady Leona. “You heard your lord grandfather. Hush! You know nothing."

To which Wylla responds:

"I know about the promise,"...

So yeah, there's a definite R+L=J connection there.

[Cubicz]

Woah, nice catch!!

That Wylla isn't the same as the wetnurse. Wylla Maderly is 15 years old

[Sansa_Stark]

That Wylla isn't the same as the wetnurse. Wylla Maderly is 15 years old

Its still potential foreshadowing regardless.

The fact that the Manderly girl's name is Wylla may not just be coincidental anymore.

[rivergirl]

This has probably been mentioned before, so if that's the case i apologise in advance. I never noticed until today that Doreah, Irri and Jhiqui gave away Dany's entire AGOT storyline in her second chapter.

"Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return.”

The two moons are Daenerys and Viserys, and the sun is Khal Drogo. Viserys wandered too close to Drogo and 'cracked,' going mad (more mad) and being burnt to death. Afterwards, Daenerys 'kissed' Drogo in the whole blood/sex/horses/death saga, after which she 'cracked' and the dragons were born.

Aside from calling each other "Moon of [his] life" and "[her] Sun and Stars," the Dothraki girls further implicate Dany and Drogo as the Moon and Sun directly after the dragon story.

The two Dothraki girls giggled and laughed. “You are foolish strawhead slave,” Irri said. “Moon is no egg. Moon is god, woman wife of sun. It is known."

[Mrs.Grumpy]

That Wylla isn't the same as the wetnurse. Wylla Maderly is 15 years old

I know that -_-

[LC Jaime Lannister]

To add to my above post, I just remembered something that makes the connection a lot stronger. Right before Wylla launches into her speech, her mother says to her:

To which Wylla responds:

So yeah, there's a definite R+L=J connection there.

She's talking about the promise from the lords of white habor to the starks. She's only like 15.

[J. Stargaryen]

She's talking about the promise from the lords of white habor to the starks. She's only like 15.

I know what she's talking about in-story. But symbolically, -- that is, for the benefit of the readers -- it's a total R+L=J connection.

That Wylla isn't the same as the wetnurse. Wylla Maderly is 15 years old

Nobody is saying that they are the same.

This has probably been mentioned before, so if that's the case i apologise in advance. I never noticed until today that Doreah, Irri and Jhiqui gave away Dany's entire AGOT storyline in her second chapter.

The two moons are Daenerys and Viserys, and the sun is Khal Drogo. Viserys wandered too close to Drogo and 'cracked,' going mad (more mad) and being burnt to death. Afterwards, Daenerys 'kissed' Drogo in the whole blood/sex/horses/death saga, after which she 'cracked' and the dragons were born.

Aside from calling each other "Moon of [his] life" and "[her] Sun and Stars," the Dothraki girls further implicate Dany and Drogo as the Moon and Sun directly after the dragon story.

I don't think Viserys is the first moon because the moon is specifically stated to be female. Also, it's pretty common for cultures to associate the moon with the feminine. For example, in Paganism and Wicca, the Maiden, Mother, and Crone are associated with the moon and its phases.

I actually have a thread about the passage you referenced here.

[RoamingRonin]

All three Lannister siblings have been captured and imprisoned.

ETA: Tyrion, Jaime, then Cersei. So they've been all caught in reverse order of birth. How cute.

[megamutt]

Stevron Frey was older then Hoster Tully.

[Anduin]

rereading Arya's chapters in aFfC, when she is on the Titan's Daughter the captain and his sons make very much sure that she knows their names so she cant be hired to kill them later on. (im not sure if they would know that in case they are targeted, it'd just be another FM who was sent after them)

[J. Stargaryen]

If she had only married Rhaegar as the gods intended, he would never have looked twice at the wolf girl. Rhaegar would be our king today and I would be his queen, the mother of his sons.

- AFfC, Cersei V

Sons. Plural.

The mention of the "wolf girl" here is no accident either, as Lyanna is the mother of Rhaegar's second 'unknown' son.

In-universe, Cersei is simply presenting a hypothetical scenario wherein she would have given Prince Rhaegar sons. (Which is about the best thing a noble lady can do in Westerosi society.)

Symbolically though, this is likely a hint that Rhaegar had two sons.

ETA; Earlier in the same chapter is this passage:

Black cats brought ill luck, as Rhaegar’s little girl had discovered in this very castle. She would have been my daughter, if the Mad King had not played his cruel jape on Father.

So, we have Cersei lamenting about not being the mother of Rhaenys specifically, as well as Rhaegar's hypothetical sons. Again, plural. And when you add in Rhaenys, Cersei has covered all three of Rhaegar's children. So yeah, I definitely think that sons is deliberate.

GRRM hides this one in plain sight by having Cersei literally think of Rhaenys, while only thinking of Rhaegar's "sons" hypothetically, or figuratively.

[novem ice]

rereading Arya's chapters in aFfC, when she is on the Titan's Daughter the captain and his sons make very much sure that she knows their names so she cant be hired to kill them later on. (im not sure if they would know that in case they are targeted, it'd just be another FM who was sent after them)

Perhaps they hope to meet all of FM in the world so none can fulfill the would-be contract?

[RoamingRonin]

The plaster on Drogo's wound was made of blue mud and his wound is said to smell sweet. Reminds me of the sweet smelling blue rose that grows in a chink of ice that Dany sees in the House of the Undying.

[Pecan]

I never realized until recently that the the Brandon-Catelyn-Littlefinger triangle is basically high school. Brandon is the Captain of the Football Team and star quarterback with a full ride to USC. Catelyn is the hot girl, the cheerleader daughter from a wealthy family, and Littlefinger is like that smart kid in school that comes from a decent family, and has some okay social skills, but lacks the status to have a shot at Catelyn. But, she likes him okay and she likes male attention, so she puts him in the friend zone and allows him to be an orbiter. This gives her a male companion to hang out with and flirt with, which she thinks is fun, but of course he takes more seriously and thinks he actually has a shot. But, of course he doesn't have an actual shot at her. In High School, it would be because, duh, she's the hottest girl in school and so of course she's going to go with Brandon, the high status Alpha Male. In the world of ASOIAF he doesn't have a shot because she's been promised to Brandon, but also, his lack of status makes him completely and totally unacceptable for the daughter of a major house.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

- AFfC, Cersei V

Sons. Plural.

The mention of the "wolf girl" here is no accident either, as Lyanna is the mother of Rhaegar's second 'unknown' son.

In-universe, Cersei is simply presenting a hypothetical scenario wherein she would have given Prince Rhaegar sons. (Which is about the best thing a noble lady can do in Westerosi society.)

Symbolically though, this is likely a hint that Rhaegar had two sons.

ETA; Earlier in the same chapter is this passage:

So, we have Cersei lamenting about not being the mother of Rhaenys specifically, as well as Rhaegar's hypothetical sons. Again, plural. And when you add in Rhaenys, Cersei has covered all three of Rhaegar's children. So yeah, I definitely think that sons is deliberate.

GRRM hides this one in plain sight by having Cersei literally think of Rhaenys, while only thinking of Rhaegar's "sons" hypothetically, or figuratively.

Just lovely :)

Since I only joined two versions of the thread ago, I'll ask: have you posted this on the R+L=J threads before?

[J. Stargaryen]

Just lovely :)

Since I only joined two versions of the thread ago, I'll ask: have you posted this on the R+L=J threads before?

No. I just found it last night.

[CosimaistheHottest]

- AFfC, Cersei V

Sons. Plural.

The mention of the "wolf girl" here is no accident either, as Lyanna is the mother of Rhaegar's second 'unknown' son.

In-universe, Cersei is simply presenting a hypothetical scenario wherein she would have given Prince Rhaegar sons. (Which is about the best thing a noble lady can do in Westerosi society.)

Symbolically though, this is likely a hint that Rhaegar had two sons.

ETA; Earlier in the same chapter is this passage:

So, we have Cersei lamenting about not being the mother of Rhaenys specifically, as well as Rhaegar's hypothetical sons. Again, plural. And when you add in Rhaenys, Cersei has covered all three of Rhaegar's children. So yeah, I definitely think that sons is deliberate.

GRRM hides this one in plain sight by having Cersei literally think of Rhaenys, while only thinking of Rhaegar's "sons" hypothetically, or figuratively.

What. Of course, Cersei thinks sons. It isn't about symbolizing anything. Men especially kings want more than one heir. More than one son to help secure the lineage. She is saying she would give him what the most desired. I don't think it is a hint about Rhaegar having more than one son.

I really don't think Martin is hiding anything like this in plain sight. Fans take two words of something and think they have a theory or something that Martin intended when really it is just a sentence or some minor discrepancy because the editor didn't catch it.

[J. Stargaryen]

What. Of course, Cersei thinks sons. It isn't about symbolizing anything. Men especially kings want more than one heir. More than one son to help secure the lineage. She is saying she would give him what the most desired. I don't think it is a hint about Rhaegar having more than one son.

I really don't think Martin is hiding anything like this in plain sight. Fans take two words of something and think they have a theory or something that Martin intended when really it is just a sentence or some minor discrepancy because the editor didn't catch it.

She also thinks of: Rhaegar’s little girl [...] She would have been my daughter. Here, Cersei imagines herself as the mother of Rhaegar's actual daughter.

Which then fits with: Rhaegar would be our king today and I would be his queen, the mother of his sons.

We know that the last part is hypothetical because Cersei does not know about R+L=J, and Rhaegar has only one official son. So it's a rather curious coincidence that Cersei managed to unintentionally and unknowingly convey this information. In fact, it's downright ironic.

This isn't some grand theory or anything, it's just another in a long line of R+L=J hints.

[Arya kiddin']

She also thinks of: Rhaegar’s little girl [...] She would have been my daughter. Here, Cersei imagines herself as the mother of Rhaegar's actual daughter.

Which then fits with: Rhaegar would be our king today and I would be his queen, the mother of his sons.

We know that the last part is hypothetical because Cersei does not know about R+L=J, and Rhaegar has only one official son. So it's a rather curious coincidence that Cersei managed to unintentionally and unknowingly convey this information. In fact, it's downright ironic.

This isn't some grand theory or anything, it's just another in a long line of R+L=J hints.

I believe the emphasis on sons means she rightly feels she is more fertile than Elia, that she'll be able to give him more sons. Elia's inability to produce more children after Aegon is widely known I believe.

[J. Stargaryen]

I believe the emphasis on sons means she rightly feels she is more fertile than Elia, that she'll be able to give him more sons. Elia's inability to produce more children after Aegon is widely known I believe.

Sure, that's what Cersei means. But GRRM is also communicating to the audience there.

We've got threads and threads of examples where a certain line or lines operates on multiple levels. And that's exactly what's happening here.