Do you think Sansa is next in line to die?

[Mladen]

But it's not like Tyrion wanted the marriage either...so if he wanted to start being cruel to Sansa because he'd rather be married to someone else, than it's ok? Plus, for the rest of the time that Sansa is with him, it's not like she's always doing nasty things to him...She just happened to be cruel to him at this one point where he couldn't put on the coat of protection.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought in the text afterwards she has some remorse for being mean after that happened...

He could have said no. But he knew that his father and Cersei will grant him only bit of power through Sansa, and he grabbed the opportunity. Yes, he doesn't love her, but at the same time, he lusts for her. He is being hypocritical in offering her a way out. She wasn't cruel, she just rejected the notion of being married to him. If he wanted a loving bride, well, he should have said no to his father.

[The Mother of The Others]

• Rickon is next to die

so this has all been irrelevant

goodday

:drunk:

[Dana Holland]

I do not think Sansa will die but end up in a kind of exile from the north. People will see her as a traitor for ratting on her father and for the situation about lying about what happend with arya and joff in AGOT. Maybe she will stay in the Vale married to who ever becomes the next Lord Paramount their. I don't see her going back to the North though and I doubt she will be welcome. Plus she is married to a Lannister

[El Guapo]

Tyrion very much wanted to marry Sansa and her claim to Wintefell.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

But it's not like Tyrion wanted the marriage either...so if he wanted to start being cruel to Sansa because he'd rather be married to someone else, than it's ok? Plus, for the rest of the time that Sansa is with him, it's not like she's always doing nasty things to him...She just happened to be cruel to him at this one point where he couldn't put on the coat of protection.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought in the text afterwards she has some remorse for being mean after that happened...

Tyrion himself, talking with Tywin, says that this marriage is a cruel thing to do to Sansa. So, he is being cruel to Sansa, whether he wanted it or no.

Yes, she has some remorse, when she realizes that she actually causes amusement to Joffrey and Cersei and the rest.

[El Guapo]

Tyrion very much wanted to marry Sansa and her claim to Wintefell.

[Dana Holland]

I don't think Tyrion wanted to marry Sansa. In way it was forced on him too by his father. HIs conversation with his dad about how cruel it was to do does not point to some one who was enthusiastic about it. Plus If he really was eager to he would not hesitate to bed Sansa.

[Viserion Stormborn]

I don't "get" the whole pawn to player thing. I'm sure it's been debated to death but so far Sansa hasn't done a whole lot of anything to warrant she-wolf status and the like, her greatest accomplishment is staying alive and even that has more to do with other characters' intentions and needs (Cersei, Tyrells, Little Finger) than an active resistance on her part. I give her credit for even accepting Dontos' offer but that's about the extent of it.

Now is there potential for her to become a player? Hell yes. She's stronger than many off of these forums give her credit for. But as it stands now she'd be more aptly described as a babysitter.

[Mladen]

I do not think Sansa will die but end up in a kind of exile from the north. People will see her as a traitor for ratting on her father and for the situation about lying about what happend with arya and joff in AGOT. Maybe she will stay in the Vale married to who ever becomes the next Lord Paramount their. I don't see her going back to the North though and I doubt she will be welcome. Plus she is married to a Lannister

Because Manderly, Reed, Glover and Umber will reject her because she and her sister didn't get well :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

And as for her father, how they are going to find out? And even if she tells them, she wasn't the one that killed him.

People, how about we be serious?

I don't "get" the whole pawn to player thing. I'm sure it's been debated to death but so far Sansa hasn't done a whole lot of anything to warrant she-wolf status and the like, her greatest accomplishment is staying alive and even that has more to do with other characters' intentions and needs (Cersei, Tyrells, Little Finger) than an active resistance on her part. I give her credit for even accepting Dontos' offer but that's about the extent of it.

Now is there potential for her to become a player? Hell yes. She's stronger than many off of these forums give her credit for. But as it stands now she'd be more aptly described as a babysitter.

She-wolf status is not something you earn, you are born that way.

[I Know I Know HoHoHoooo]

Tyrion very much wanted to marry Sansa and her claim to Wintefell.

Any text you can find to support that opinion??

[Woman of War]

She-wolf status is not something you earn, you are born that way.

One of the books' accomplishments may be to show that no one can take anything for granted because he or she claims to be born into it.

Birthright ultimately does not earn characters anything, it is no fate for good or evil. Characters will have to deserve their status as hero of their own life and within their own story.

[Mad Monkey]

Because Manderly, Reed, Glover and Umber will reject her because she and her sister didn't get well :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

And as for her father, how they are going to find out? And even if she tells them, she wasn't the one that killed him.

People, how about we be serious?

She-wolf status is not something you earn, you are born that way.

I think people are confusing their perceptions of the books with things that the actual characters in the story would know. There's really no way for Manderly or Reed to know what happened in KL in the hours before Ned's execution. How would they know? Who is going to tell them? Sansa? Cersei?? How would they know that Sansa lied about the Mycah situation? Who would even think to ask?

These are all things that a reader can legitimately dislike the character for but pretty much 99.99999% of the people in Westeros wouldn't even know about them because they were either secret or minor details in the grand scheme of the world. The issue with Mycah was very important to Sansa's character but do you think Howland Reed or Greatjon Umber lie awake at night debating it??

[I Know I Know HoHoHoooo]

He could have said no. But he knew that his father and Cersei will grant him only bit of power through Sansa, and he grabbed the opportunity. Yes, he doesn't love her, but at the same time, he lusts for her. He is being hypocritical in offering her a way out. She wasn't cruel, she just rejected the notion of being married to him. If he wanted a loving bride, well, he should have said no to his father.

Yikes...Where do you find it in the text that he lusts for her??? If he lusted for her, than he would have had sex with her on his wedding night, but instead says he's not going to unless Sansa would want to - and when Sansa says she might never, he's ok with that...because he's already in love with someone else.

Furthermore, you aren't understanding medieval marriage arrangements...Most of the marriages that happen in Westerosi isn't because both of any of the parties WANTED it to happen...As lord of a family, the father makes a marriage pact with another lord and the children underneath deal with it.

This whole thread got started with you trying to say Sansa and Arya were alike though and not making very good arguments from the text to support it...

[I Know I Know HoHoHoooo]

I think people are confusing their perceptions of the books with things that the actual characters in the story would know. There's really no way for Manderly or Reed to know what happened in KL in the hours before Ned's execution. How would they know? Who is going to tell them? Sansa? Cersei?? How would they know that Sansa lied about the Mycah situation? Who would even think to ask?

These are all things that a reader can legitimately dislike the character for but pretty much 99.99999% of the people in Westeros wouldn't even know about them because they were either secret or minor details in the grand scheme of the world. The issue with Mycah was very important to Sansa's character but do you think Howland Reed or Greatjon Umber lie awake at night debating it??

Totally agree.

[Mladen]

Any text you can find to support that opinion??

“Only imagining what a bugger-all handsome bridegroom I’ll make.” A wife might be the very thing he needed. If she brought him lands and a keep, it would give him a place in the world apart from Joffrey’s court... and away from Cersei and their father.

Tyrion Lannister, Lord Protector of Winterfell. The prospect gave him a queer chill. “Very good, Father,” he said slowly, “but there’s a big ugly roach in your rushes.

Although Tyrion is at first reluctant, he is so easily swayed...

I think people are confusing their perceptions of the books with things that the actual characters in the story would know. There's really no way for Manderly or Reed to know what happened in KL in the hours before Ned's execution. How would they know? Who is going to tell them? Sansa? Cersei?? How would they know that Sansa lied about the Mycah situation? Who would even think to ask?

These are all things that a reader can legitimately dislike the character for but pretty much 99.99999% of the people in Westeros wouldn't even know about them because they were either secret or minor details in the grand scheme of the world. The issue with Mycah was very important to Sansa's character but do you think Howland Reed or Greatjon Umber lie awake at night debating it??

Exactly my point.

Yikes...Where do you find it in the text that he lusts for her??? If he lusted for her, than he would have had sex with her on his wedding night, but instead says he's not going to unless Sansa would want to - and when Sansa says she might never, he's ok with that...because he's already in love with someone else.

Furthermore, you aren't understanding medieval marriage arrangements...Most of the marriages that happen in Westerosi isn't because both of any of the parties WANTED it to happen...As lord of a family, the father makes a marriage pact with another lord and the children underneath deal with it.

This whole thread got started with you trying to say Sansa and Arya were alike though and not making very good arguments from the text to support it...

How about you read the books? All you ask is textual proofs. Well Tyrion openly admitted that he wanted her. Open the books and find it... The fact you didn't bother with the details, doesn't give you right to question some very established facts based on the canon.

I think that you are the one that doesn't understand how the marriage in medieval world functioned. Basically, father would choose, but daughter always had the right to say a word. We see how Lynesse Hightower is married, entire Arianne proposals, etc. Yes, daughters didn't have much saying, but they had a choice. This wasn't arranged marriage, this was forced marriage.

Yes, I imagine that someone who didn't actually at any point prove me wrong can see that way. Alas, I think you are the one that needs to prove me wrong... And you didn't... Sorry...

[Dornishpenguin]

Look at what Sansa gets from the marriage: a Lannister man she (along with pretty much everyone else) is physically repulsed by, who isn't even considered his fathers heir and is part of a plot to take her birthright.

What does Tyrion get? The most wanted bride on the Westeros wedding market who is beautiful, ladylike, and has the North.

She had every right to loathe being forced to get married to Tyrion. She has everything taken from her for the marriage while he gets everything (at least he could have had the PW not happened). I hate when people bring it up that he didn't want to be married either- he clearly desired her and her claim. He was ultimately given a decision to say "yes" or "no" to the marriage. His "suffering" during the wedding is nothing compared to hers.

[Mladen]

Yikes...Where do you find it in the text that he lusts for her???

Tyrion had commanded Sansa to wear a sleeping shift as well. I want her, he realized. I want Winterfell, yes, but I want her as well, child or woman or whatever she is. I want to comfort her. I want to hear her laugh. I want her to come to me willingly, to bring me her joys and her sorrows and her lust. His mouth twisted in a bitter smile.

[The Mother of The Others]

"oh no, hot bitches!" ---Liz Lemon from 30 Rock, as a gaggle of attractive single ladies swarmed into the appartment, having found out about the homely rich guy Liz was trying to court before his presence in the building became known to the..... (see above).

Hey, Shortstack is going to pine for the good life he sees other people enjoying on the other side of the fence in Normalville.

[Mad Monkey]

Look at what Sansa gets from the marriage: a Lannister man she (along with pretty much everyone else) is physically repulsed by, who isn't even considered his fathers heir and is part of a plot to take her birthright.

What does Tyrion get? The most wanted bride on the Westeros wedding market who is beautiful, ladylike, and has the North.

She had every right to loathe being forced to get married to Tyrion. She has everything taken from her for the marriage while he gets everything (at least he could have had the PW not happened). I hate when people bring it up that he didn't want to be married either- he clearly desired her and her claim. He was ultimately given a decision to say "yes" or "no" to the marriage. His "suffering" during the wedding is nothing compared to hers.

That's a good point. Sansa clearly got the worse end of the stick here. The relationship was uncomfortable/embarrassing for Tyrion but for Sansa it was a waking nightmare. Apart from Tyrion's looks and Sansa's birthright, you also have to look at it in the context of the culture; in a culture where a woman's highest political value is to forge a marriage alliance to strengthen her family, what Tywin did to Sansa is basically turning her into a weapon to use against her own family. This would be horrific for Sansa no matter who she was married to; Tyrion could have looked like Jaime and it wouldn't have done much to make her life any better.

[The Mother of The Others]

Continues the Sansa theme of making a wrong turn in Brooklyn and then asking for directions from Cersei, which took her into the mean streets. Show any signs of working against the fam, and the queen of mean siezes upon it and amplifies your bad choice until you're a weapon against the fam. Do something wrong in chess and a high quality opponent jumps on the mistake and never lets you forget it the rest of the game because you'll be having to constantly address the weaknesses that sprung from that bad move and its repercussions.