Big Bang Theory 6: The Suffering of Being Unable to Love

[lokisnow]

Mom. It's also a Chuck Lorre show, which is why it's coming up here, I guess. (It's also interesting to consider TBBT in it's light, because Mom is very consciously dark, mostly about messed up, seriously damaged people (recovering addicts and cancer patients and deadbeat dads and pregnant teens) trying to deal with fundamentally messed up lives and always just on the edge of being overwhelmed by it all, and it makes me feel a little less like i'm crazy for seeing so much sad, melancholy subtext in TBBT.)

iirc, Lorre's vanity card for the Mom pilot episode gets into that a bit.

[SpaceChampion]

And emotion trumps reason once again on TBBT. I hate Sheldon.

[Alcibiades]

I thought we briefly saw the original Amy come back tonight when she reacted coldly to Sheldon dumping her. It was fun to see.

[Sci-2]

And emotion trumps reason once again on TBBT. I hate Sheldon.

Yeah, this episode was largely worthless.

A few things made me smile though so not a total loss.

[SpaceChampion]

It was Howard's storyline that really bugged me though. Grrr. This ep has converted me to Datepalm's view.

[Datepalm]

It should come as no surprise then that I loved this episode... :thumbsup: It felt like a return to form after all the mushy stuff. Leonard can't win, an esteem-less blob of a person trapped between two more forceful, selfish personalities. Sheldon can't win either, of course, just bumble around his little bubble and be manipulated by Amy's more-or-less good intentions. (Not that Amy can win, not with that.) Raj,naturally, is back on the floor at the end, everyone back down to the level of maturity of making fun of his accent, and, oh, Howard. "The wrong stuff". Epic.

Also, good Hitchhikers reference. And cold Amy was fun to see again. And Penny's acting, still not going anywhere. And "you didn't have a personality, just a bunch of shows you liked." And change, yes, a little, but not smooth or neat or linear. Just dragging along with the tepid, irritating day to day nonsense. :bowdown:

[SpaceChampion]

:ohwell: Yes, not surprised.

But i can't even... I have no... Grrrr.

ETA: I mean, I am simultaneously amused and horrified and frustrated by the show. Hell, the nihilism of True Detective bothers me less.

[Datepalm]

:ohwell: Yes, not surprised.

But i can't even... I have no... Grrrr.

ETA: I mean, I am simultaneously amused and horrified and frustrated by the show. Hell, the nihilism of True Detective bothers me less.

Exactly. :) That mix is just...what. the. hell. (to quote Community.) I think it's the frustration that pushes it over, personally. Amused+horrified isn't that unusual for comedy fare, (Always Sunny...type stuff, awful people cheerfully doing awful things) but adding that itchy stillness to it somehow ratchets up the stakes, makes the characters vulnerable instead of villainous. It just works for me.

I don't quite get the love for True Detective, tbh. I've watched the first 4-5 episodes, I think, and I enjoyed the atmosphere and the setting and the acting, but once it started being this more actiony, thing, with all the running around and getting shot at and complicated plots and plans and all that, I kinda lost interest.The part of it that's a pair of middle aged men staring bleakly back at the decisions they've made, rationalizing and explaining, narrating their own lives back to themselves to make them into a story they can live with - that's wonderful. The biker gangs and whathaveyou, meh.

[SpaceChampion]

I don't quite get the love for True Detective, tbh. I've watched the first 4-5 episodes, I think, and I enjoyed the atmosphere and the setting and the acting, but once it started being this more actiony, thing, with all the running around and getting shot at and complicated plots and plans and all that, I kinda lost interest.The part of it that's a pair of middle aged men staring bleakly back at the decisions they've made, rationalizing and explaining, narrating their own lives back to themselves to make them into a story they can live with - that's wonderful. The biker gangs and whathaveyou, meh.

That's literally only six minutes out of the 6 hours aired so far. I don't think the final two episodes will be particularly actiony.

[Datepalm]

It's only 8 episodes? I may catch up on it then. I was just losing interest in the actual case as it forked and forked into increasingly convoluted plotting, going undercover, drug stuff, all that. That undercuts the bleakness of it for me. I liked it when it seemed like it was just dumb, nasty and straightforward.

[Greywolf2375]

And emotion trumps reason once again on TBBT. I hate Sheldon.

Yep.

The episode started out slowly, but did pick up in the 2nd half for me. I can completely buy Howard "forgetting" how horrible space was and wanting to go back - I thought it was kinda poor to then turn it around to him trying to worm his way out of it again.

I was just talking about Sheldon to someone yesterday. As funny as he can be, I really do dislike that character. In an ironic way it was nice that they just came straight out and said he is an immature baby, but the fact that he can say "sometimes the baby wins" just bothers me to no end.

I did like that fact that they addressed that they never use 1/3 of the apt aside from the random christmas tree and bird infestation.

[awesome possum]

I chuckled a few times but yeah, I kind of hate Sheldon. "Let's have an episode about how much Sheldon has grown as a character by also showing how he hasn't really grown at all." Although I guess just allowing that table in the apartment at all shows growth for him.

[Datepalm]

Hate him as a person or hate him as a character? He's totally obnoxious as a person, but I find him really compelling as a character. Hell, the fact he's so loathsome is part of what makes him interesting.

I mean, I've known a bunch of these guys, who were just incredibly irritating, condescending, immature and so deeply wrapped up in themeselves that they just didn't seem to realize no one had to line up with their bizarro whims and complexes just because "but this is who I am!" It's clear that there's probably some real damage and real defensive fuck-upedness there, and that some part of all of it is not their fault, as such, but at the same time any attempt to actually make these people part of your life is incredibly exhausting and humiliating, as you just wind up playing along with their games and loathing them even more, because they really are terrible.

(And then I wonder if there's not a spiral of these confused, lonely, irritating guys (and they are mostly guys) growing ever lonelier and angrier and even more irritating as they push everyone away. A couple decades down the line they are the people you see posting demented, furious, often misogynistic, utterly detached from reality screeds on craigslist, about how men aren't real men and women aren't real women and what the hell is wrong with the world, with that pathetic, oblivious subtext of 'why am I so alone?')

I guess the show is just completely idiot-proof with me. The worse these people behave to one another, the more fragile they seem to become, and the more interesting I find them.

[Greywolf2375]

Hate him as a person or hate him as a character? He's totally obnoxious as a person, but I find him really compelling as a character. Hell, the fact he's so loathsome is part of what makes him interesting.

I mean, I've known a bunch of these guys, who were just incredibly irritating, condescending, immature and so deeply wrapped up in themeselves that they just didn't seem to realize no one had to line up with their bizarro whims and complexes just because "but this is who I am!" It's clear that there's probably some real damage and real defensive fuck-upedness there, and that some part of all of it is not their fault, as such, but at the same time any attempt to actually make these people part of your life is incredibly exhausting and humiliating, as you just wind up playing along with their games and loathing them even more, because they really are terrible.

(And then I wonder if there's not a spiral of these confused, lonely, irritating guys (and they are mostly guys) growing ever lonelier and angrier and even more irritating as they push everyone away. A couple decades down the line they are the people you see posting demented, furious, often misogynistic, utterly detached from reality screeds on craigslist, about how men aren't real men and women aren't real women and what the hell is wrong with the world, with that pathetic, oblivious subtext of 'why am I so alone?')

I guess the show is just completely idiot-proof with me. The worse these people behave to one another, the more fragile they seem to become, and the more interesting I find them.

I think he plays the character fantastically, but I hate the person Sheldon Cooper is. I think even though he is compelling from the standpoint of being so broken that my frustration at how he does behave to his friends overrides any appreciation I could have.

- last night with the table

- hacking Leonards FB account w/ Stephanie (he does the wrong thing - in every sense - yet they make him to be the hero)

- intentionally ruining Harry Potter for Leonard (that was purely out of spite)

- others I can't think of off the top of my head

The others definitely enable this behavior so it keeps repeating. The train trip to SF to meet Smoot. "We voted....3-1...so we're taking the train." Why not just say fine, you take the train, we'll fly. I know from the script sense this was what they wanted to have happen, but what stopped them from doing that? They showed they can and will do that when they decided that the only right decision because Sheldon couldn't get a slurpee was to go to the movies without him. Why not there?

I know "bully" gets thrown around a lot on the show, but really it seems to me like all he is trying to do many times is just be a bully to them. I understand that Leonard keeps him around like a dog, but some of the things they have had him do just seem to go too far.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I chuckled a few times but yeah, I kind of hate Sheldon. "Let's have an episode about how much Sheldon has grown as a character by also showing how he hasn't really grown at all." Although I guess just allowing that table in the apartment at all shows growth for him.

I've never liked TBBT, but I've sometimes watched the show and enjoyed it. Whatsoever, my main problem with Sheldon has always been how he's been rebooted for plot needs and how many watchers actually think he's the greatest character/person ever because of this quirks and that was an acceptable behaviour.

I like the Sheldon he was in Season 1, eccentric yet, still a bit oepn to human relationships.

[awesome possum]

Yeah, I'd say I kind of hate both Sheldon Cooper the person and the character. The person is a spoiled obnoxious brat and the character is too often Sheldon Cooper the Episode Plot Device. I know this is a sitcom and it's not meant to be taken seriously but more often than not I find myself being distracted by the question, "what exactly keeps these people around Sheldon?"

I know by this point it's almost habit more than anything but every single episode at least one joke revolves around how obnoxious Sheldon is and how someone genuinely dislikes something he does if not just disliking Sheldon completely. And yet, there they are, kowtowing to his every wish. Again and again and again. I know it's a sitcom and you can't really stop and think about these things but it just becomes harder and harder to suspend my belief that people would willingly spend their lives with him, even people as often pathetic/socially inept as Howard and Raj and Leonard.

[SpaceChampion]

Sheldon is the villain. They need to kill him in the climax, but only after he fakes remorse for his actions and then turns on them at the last second to sink his fangs into Leonard's neck; Penny shoots him with a silver bullet, and the survivors ride off into the sunset on their spaceship robot kaiju.

[Datepalm]

I think he plays the character fantastically, but I hate the person Sheldon Cooper is. I think even though he is compelling from the standpoint of being so broken that my frustration at how he does behave to his friends overrides any appreciation I could have.

- last night with the table

- hacking Leonards FB account w/ Stephanie (he does the wrong thing - in every sense - yet they make him to be the hero)

- intentionally ruining Harry Potter for Leonard (that was purely out of spite)

- others I can't think of off the top of my head

The others definitely enable this behavior so it keeps repeating. The train trip to SF to meet Smoot. "We voted....3-1...so we're taking the train." Why not just say fine, you take the train, we'll fly. I know from the script sense this was what they wanted to have happen, but what stopped them from doing that? They showed they can and will do that when they decided that the only right decision because Sheldon couldn't get a slurpee was to go to the movies without him. Why not there?

I know "bully" gets thrown around a lot on the show, but really it seems to me like all he is trying to do many times is just be a bully to them. I understand that Leonard keeps him around like a dog, but some of the things they have had him do just seem to go too far.

I think that's the crux of it though - if he didn't behave that badly, he wouldn't be that broken. People who are good friends and good boyfriends and are kind appreciative of the people around them and sensitive to their needs and generally have happy, functional relationships and so on are...not very broken. "Broken" has kind of a sexy sound to it, but it really isn't in reality. That's why I appreciate Sheldon, I guess - his dysfunctionality has real consequences, going to far as to turn audience sympathy (which is perfectly capable of being all for total assholes) against him. He's obnoxious enough to actually be uncool.

For an any easy comparison, it's Community all over again - we're told over and over that these people are messed up and dysfunctional, but who doesn't want to be part of their study group? I sure do. It seems to be awesomely fun. But no one would aspire to be friends with the TBBT guys - and that's sad.

That said - I'll add to the list Sheldon blackmailing Priya into getting Leonard to back off the roommate agreement and essentially ending their relationship. He was pure mustache twirling villain there. I do think it was perfectly in character though.

[Crazydog7]

The more I think about it the more I realize the show just doesn't make me laugh like it used to. It can still have rare moments of an interesting idea I really liked the James Earl Jones epiosde but generally you have

Awkward stuff between Lenord and Penny

unrequited love the Amy has for Sheldon (for some reason its like Meg abuse at this point)

Creepy homoerotic stuff between Raji and Stewart

[Greywolf2375]

That's why I appreciate Sheldon, I guess - his dysfunctionality has real consequences, going to far as to turn audience sympathy (which is perfectly capable of being all for total assholes) against him. He's obnoxious enough to actually be uncool.

That said - I'll add to the list Sheldon blackmailing Priya into getting Leonard to back off the roommate agreement and essentially ending their relationship. He was pure mustache twirling villain there. I do think it was perfectly in character though.

I disagree with that, I don't think his behaviors really do have real consequences - whether "real" be the audience as we watch or "real" in the sitcom world. In the real world, the character and Parsons portrayal of it are winning awards and getting lauded. In the sitcom world, he acts like an ass and everyone just bows down to accept it.

THAT was the other one I really wanted to remember. He shows in that and some others (like last night) that he isn't just doing these things from a social awkwardness/not knowing how to deal with social situations but that he knows what his behaviour represents and relishes it. One part about that countdown email that bugged me as well...yes, Leonard unplugged it...he could have just takent the laptop and taken the battery out. Or, as I probably would have done, snapped the laptop in two.

That one though takes what Sheldon does and makes the focus on how Priya wants to hide the relationship, rather than Sheldon being horrible to the two of them when they beat him at his own game.