LordStoneheart Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 For the wiki, I feel that Rhaenyra should now be listed as a holder of the Iron Throne and not just a claimant. Before the P&tQ was released I don't think it was ever known that Rhaenyra held the throne, however brief a time period. Aegon II declared that she was never a queen but surely we should see this as a technicality. I vote for making Rhaenyra an official Queen and holder of the throne rather than claimant. Any disagreements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I disagree. Rhaenyra was never recorded as Queen nor, after her brief reign, known as Queen by anyone. She should remain Princess.Edit: A real life example, Lady Jane Grey was Queen of England for nine days, if memory serves, and yet she is not called "Queen Jane" is she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted December 22, 2013 Author Share Posted December 22, 2013 It was because of Aegon II that she wasn't called Queen and I find that not sufficient enough of a reason to say she wasn't a queen or a holder of the Iron Throne. Wikipedia lists LJG was Queen but with the parentheses (disputed). I mean, Robert didn't say Aerys wasn't a king after he took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Hammer Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I disagree as well. Martin did not list her as a monarch for a reason. When the history was told, she was not considered to be a Queen. In medieval history, there are a few claimants who managed to sit the throne for some time but never were recorded by history as actual monarchs. Sure, this is almost always due to political necessity from the next ass on the throne, but it is still the official story. There are also plenty of examples of monarchs who were overthrown and still acknowledged as official monarchs. If the histories of Westeros do not acknowledge her as a Queen, neither should the wiki. If Martin decides that she should be recognized as a Queen, she should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I think that the wiki should reflect the in-universe reality of Rhaenyra not being known as Queen. The wiki is a source of information and people will go there searching for Princess Rhaenyra, claimant to the Iron Throne, not Queen Rhaenyra. Contradicting the books will only confuse people. In my AGoT appendix, she is not listed as a holder of the Iron Throne and the wiki should reflect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted December 22, 2013 Author Share Posted December 22, 2013 I think that the wiki should reflect the in-universe reality of Rhaenyra not being known as Queen. The wiki is a source of information and people will go there searching for Princess Rhaenyra, claimant to the Iron Throne, not Queen Rhaenyra. Contradicting the books will only confuse people. In my AGoT appendix, she is not listed as a holder of the Iron Throne and the wiki should reflect that. I understand a bit better now, but some things on the wiki aren't strictly in-universe. How about something halfway? Like "while she did in fact hold the Iron Throne for a brief time period, she is not officially known as a Queen because of Aegon II's decree." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I understand a bit better now, but some things on the wiki aren't strictly in-universe. How about something halfway? Like "while she did in fact hold the Iron Throne for a brief time period, she is not officially known as a Queen because of Aegon II's decree."Yes by all means mention her brief reign on her page, but I don't think she belongs on any list of rulers anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 She lost, her son inherited as the heir of his uncle, by his law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 GRRM didn't list Rhaenyra in the list of monarchs either, in the appendix of Game.Granted, some details in that list have changed over time, but I think it shows that Rhaenyra was never meant to be seen as a monarch.We don't count Trystane as an actual monarch, do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Well, Myrcella never sat the Iron Throne, but Rhaenyra did, however short. I think that's the point I was getting at half a year ago, but disregard me. I was only a young boy and knew little. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I meant the squire Trystane during the Dance of the Dragons, who seems to have held KL while both Rhaenyra and Aegon weren't there. :P The boy who claimed he was Viserys I' bastard and who was declared king by a hedge knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Oh, whoops... :blushing: lol I haven't read it in a while. But for the wiki the monarchs are listed as "holders" of the IT and she definitely held it for a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceless Man Friday Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Whether she was Queen or not depends on who is writing the history. There may be someone in Dorne who would want it written that Rhaenyra was queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 It was because of Aegon II that she wasn't called Queen and I find that not sufficient enough of a reason to say she wasn't a queen or a holder of the Iron Throne. Wikipedia lists LJG was Queen but with the parentheses (disputed). I mean, Robert didn't say Aerys wasn't a king after he took over. It highlights that Aegon III was II's heir and succeed by his law. If Aegon won order the title of his mother, she would be remembered as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted September 6, 2014 Author Share Posted September 6, 2014 It highlights that Aegon III was II's heir and succeed by his law. If Aegon won order the title of his mother, she would be remembered as such.We don't know for sure if that's how Aegon III came to the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I agree, that the wiki should reflect the in-universe perspective that she was not a Queen, however, I have often wondered why she is not seen that way in that universe. I mean, who became the next monarch after her and Aegon II died? Her son. It kind of seems like the blacks won the war to me....so doesn't history usually reflect the winners perspectives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the kitten Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I agree that she should have been named a queen. Not on the wiki but in asoiaf history. Just because one king says one thing doesn't mean it's set forever. Aegon wasn't a good king he caused an unnecessary war because he was power hungry, his claim was weaker than rhaenyra's IMO. She sat the iron throne, ruled for long enough therefore she was queen. Same as Robert and Joffrey and Tommen, even though they're not targs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Rhaenyra not being listed as queen regnant in ASOIAF histories makes no sense, now that we know how the Dance ended. I think it's a relic of the time when GRRM first came up with the idea of Dance, but did not develop it yet. In the AGOT appendix, even in the newer editions, Rhaenyra is only a year older than Aegon (which means she's probably his full sibling) - obviously, GRRM didn't come up with the story details until very late. His early idea may have been that the Dance ended in a similar way to Anarchy, with Aegon II winning but then naming Rhaenyra's son as his heir before his death (Aegon II is even said to have died of his wounds in one of the season 4 DVD History and Lore videos - that may have been an earlier idea, possible even after the publication of tPatQ). In which case, it would make some sense that Rhaenyra is not listed as queen in histories. But, with the revelations from TWOAIF - that the Blacks were in fact winning the war after Rhaenyra's death, and that Aegon II was poisoned by his own men, who made Aegon III the king - which essentially means that Aegon III did not succeed Aegon II but gained the throne because the Blacks won, Rhaenyra not being listed as queen doesn't make sense. Unless it's Maesters' doing, and Aegon III never cared what they wrote in their histories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I think in Rhaenyra's case we should not consider her mere pretender. She was the chosen heir of her father, Viserys I, and she sat the Iron Throne for half a year. Gyldayn does not seem to care about Aegon's decree in his history, as he usually refers to Rhaenyra as 'Queen Rhaenyra' not as 'Princess Rhaenyra' following her coronation on Dragonstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittanian Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think in Rhaenyra's case we should not consider her mere pretender. She was the chosen heir of her father, Viserys I, and she sat the Iron Throne for half a year. Gyldayn does not seem to care about Aegon's decree in his history, as he usually refers to Rhaenyra as 'Queen Rhaenyra' not as 'Princess Rhaenyra' following her coronation on Dragonstone. Yandel also refers to her as Queen Rhaenyra several times in TWOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.