The "Everyone's going to die anyway" syndrome

[Joyful Union]

Next season will probably be the happiest season of the show (I know, not saying much but still). Episode 2 is surely going to make the Unsullied leap with joy.

[protar]

Next season will probably be the happiest season of the show (I know, not saying much but still). Episode 2 is surely going to make the Unsullied leap with joy.

It does help that the only two really big deaths (on par with Ned, Robb and Cat etc.) are villains this time around.

[Overlord of Skagos]

More likely,

Episode 8: FUCK THIS SHOW! Why did the cool guy need to die!

Episode 9: Noooo, Ygritte! But yay, Jon and co. defeat the wildlings! Stannis to the rescue! Eh, he's a good guy after all?

Episode 10: OMG Tyrion what are you doing?! Shae - no! ... - The dragons did WHAT? - YES YES TYRION KILL THAT ASSHOLE! Ha ha "he doesn't shit gold after all!"...- Yay, LORD SNOW! LORD SNOW!

you forgot Ep 10: OMG LF and Lysa did WHAT?? and then OMGGGGGGGGG! CAT!!!!

[Broken Fox]

Lysa's death reaction: "Lol"

[Ignorant Bog Woman]

you forgot Ep 10: OMG LF and Lysa did WHAT??

More like: "Wait, who is Jon Arryn?"

[Joseph Nobles]

More like: "Wait, who is Jon Arryn?"

Pretty much. The mystery the Unsullied didn't realize needed solving. But this may demonstrate the kind of long game GRRM is capable of playing - four full seasons to solve a death from the first episode? Yowsa.

[Broken Fox]

A lot of people won't even realize who Lysa is.

[Annara Snow]

A lot of people won't even realize who Lysa is.

More like: "Wait, who is Jon Arryn?"

They have lots of times to remind people of both these things. Basically, Sansa's entire time in the Vale this season. She'll be there since episode 3, probably, surely she can't spend all that time in the Vale with Lysa without people realizing who Lysa is.

Tyrion being again accused of something he didn't do may also be a nice moment to remember that time when he was accused of sending an assassin to kill Bran, was brought to the Vale and almost thrown out of the Moon Door by Lysa, who was accusing him of her husband's murder... Which happens to be the time when he first met his buddy Bronn.

And if some viewers can't remember something that was such a big part of season 1 (how many episodes did Ned spend looking for Jon's murderer) even after being reminded of it... well, there's nothing you can do. I don't believe that every TV viewer is that shallow. Remember how Lost fans used to go over every little detail of every episode?

[Rhaegar I Targaryen]

A lot of the unsullied viewers, frankly, don't put nearly enough effort into watching the show. Period.

And I'm not saying that they need to pour countless hours into studying the characters, but for God's sake rewatch some episodes. There are a lot of moving pieces in this series. It's not a show written specifically for TV like Dexter, House, Breaking Bad, etc--- it's a saga brought to life. It takes a little bit of work to keep up on the characters names, interactions, tendencies, rivalries, and motivations. People expect to just sit down and be entertained, because that's what they're used to. When a show is made for TV only, each episode is generally more riveting, but the long term structure is weaker. GoT is different, because the emphasis is on the long haul.

The worst, are the ones who fear any and all spoilers, no matter big or small, in any form, at any time. Some of them, I kid you not, fear spoilers to the point where they won't even let you add context to any of the characters. I had a roommate who refused to let me tell him who the Mountain was in the Season 3 episode where Sandor fights Beric Donderrian. Flat out refused. Started yelling and throwing shit across the room to make noise because I was gonna "spoil it" for him. The Mountain, as any educated show watcher knows, was introduced in season 1 and had some scenes in season 2. I wasn't "spoiling" anything, but in his eyes I was. When he finally calmed down and heard me out, he was still upset because "he didn't know he was cruel to everybody," maybe he just "didn't like Sandor" so I "ruined" that for him too. :bang: :bs:

I'm gonna back track now (sorry, I'm ranting), and return to the idea that maybe these people should rewatch some of the older episodes and try and capture some of the actual context. It's their own fault if they thought the story was all about the Starks vs the Lannisters and Danerys. Brings to mind the unsullied who could not for the life of them figure out who was holding Theon hostage in season 3, absolutely no clue. Well, if they paid attention to the Robb/Roose scene where Roose mentioned he was sending his bastard son to retake Winterfell, they would know. I don't think it would be too much to expect them to remember that Robb said the other Ironborn could go home if they turned over Theon. Nope, couldn't put two and two together.

I can't wait until the lazy show fans peel away and stop watching, because frankly they don't even deserve it. You just watch, if they don't change some of Dany's actions or speed up her plotline, they'll go away. Some people remain vigilant Dany fan's after reading the books, a lotta people get a bit tired of her eagerness to kill and willful ignorance. The show has done an outstanding job of making her appear to be the star, and the unsullied have bought into it hook, line and sinker. They will not stand for 2 more seasons of her not being in Westeros, you can count on it.

I apologize for the inherent aggressiveness in this post, but this is the only place I can talk to anybody who knows anything about the show :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Joseph Nobles]

I hear you, Rhaegar I Targaryen. That's why I think we see things like that dragon shadow over King's Landing in the Season 4 Trailer #1. I'm sure D&D mean that for us to know they haven't lost sight of the goal, but as soon as that popped across the screen, I looked at my Unsullied friend and said, "That's not going to happen this season. It has to be a dream." I'd rather spoil something like that up front than see the disappointment.

And it's funny that your roommate reacted like that to you "spoiling" the Mountain. What happened at the Red Wedding when he realized you really were holding back like mad?

[Rhaegar I Targaryen]

I hear you, Rhaegar I Targaryen. That's why I think we see things like that dragon shadow over King's Landing in the Season 4 Trailer #1. I'm sure D&D mean that for us to know they haven't lost sight of the goal, but as soon as that popped across the screen, I looked at my Unsullied friend and said, "That's not going to happen this season. It has to be a dream." I'd rather spoil something like that up front than see the disappointment.

And it's funny that your roommate reacted like that to you "spoiling" the Mountain. What happened at the Red Wedding when he realized you really were holding back like mad?

:lol: he was actually pretty grateful that I hadn't told him about it. Kinda funny actually, he'd had to work late the night of the Red Wedding so he didn't watch it until the next day. He knew something big happened in the episode because of the way the internet blew up after it aired, but he didn't know what.

When crossbows started firing...that was priceless.

[Tellus Explorer]

you forgot Ep 10: OMG LF and Lysa did WHAT?? and then OMGGGGGGGGG! CAT!!!!

Omg Cat? I was like Ahhhhhhhhhh *slit girls throat*

[Seneti]

The worst, are the ones who fear any and all spoilers, no matter big or small, in any form, at any time. Some of them, I kid you not, fear spoilers to the point where they won't even let you add context to any of the characters. I had a roommate who refused to let me tell him who the Mountain was in the Season 3 episode where Sandor fights Beric Donderrian. Flat out refused. Started yelling and throwing shit across the room to make noise because I was gonna "spoil it" for him. The Mountain, as any educated show watcher knows, was introduced in season 1 and had some scenes in season 2. I wasn't "spoiling" anything, but in his eyes I was. When he finally calmed down and heard me out, he was still upset because "he didn't know he was cruel to everybody," maybe he just "didn't like Sandor" so I "ruined" that for him too. :bang: :bs:

How about next time you just respect peoples' wishes and shut up when they tell you to? Sorry, for being so direct and blunt, but I can totally understand people who don't want ANY spoilers. TV, just like books, inspires hundreds of different interpretations of a single scene or character. Developing one's own interpretation and own predictions about where the scene/character is going, is part of what makes watching TV / reading books so enjoyable. For many people, spoiling (even minor details) takes the fun out of it. If I had been your roommate, I would have considered your persistence rude, unrespectful and uncaring and I would have called you out on it.

Back to topic: "I don't care what happens to these characters" is also known as the Eight Deadly Words in fiction land. For many people, ASOIAF causes exactly that reaction, because no matter which character readers get attached to - they are most likely going to be dead before the end of the next book. Why bother? The fact that AFFC and ADWD drag on like a snail on crutches isn't helping either...

[Broken Fox]

Yeah but his roommate in that case just sounds like he was being an idiot.

[The Dragon has three heads]

How about next time you just respect peoples' wishes and shut up when they tell you to? Sorry, for being so direct and blunt, but I can totally understand people who don't want ANY spoilers. TV, just like books, inspires hundreds of different interpretations of a single scene or character. Developing one's own interpretation and own predictions about where the scene/character is going, is part of what makes watching TV / reading books so enjoyable. For many people, spoiling (even minor details) takes the fun out of it. If I had been your roommate, I would have considered your persistence rude, unrespectful and uncaring and I would have called you out on it.

Back to topic: "I don't care what happens to these characters" is also known as the Eight Deadly Words in fiction land. For many people, ASOIAF causes exactly that reaction, because no matter which character readers get attached to - they are most likely going to be dead before the end of the next book. Why bother? The fact that AFFC and ADWD drag on like a snail on crutches isn't helping either...

No.

There is a difference between spoilers and filling in background on a character, like for example people who've forgotten he and sandor are even brothers. Come on.

That's not spoiling, it's reminding.

And in this case explained above this guy sounds like a total tool bag/man child.

Get a new roommate.

[Le Cygne]

Next season will probably be the happiest season of the show (I know, not saying much but still). Episode 2 is surely going to make the Unsullied leap with joy.

That's going to help lift their spirits, I think.

And then there's the new king, a sweetie pie, Tommen (who I suspect is not long for this world, however). Played by a new actor (16) this season:

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130502100743/gameofthrones/images/c/cc/Martyn-Lannister-3x05.jpg

[Rhaegar I Targaryen]

How about next time you just respect peoples' wishes and shut up when they tell you to? Sorry, for being so direct and blunt, but I can totally understand people who don't want ANY spoilers. TV, just like books, inspires hundreds of different interpretations of a single scene or character. Developing one's own interpretation and own predictions about where the scene/character is going, is part of what makes watching TV / reading books so enjoyable. For many people, spoiling (even minor details) takes the fun out of it. If I had been your roommate, I would have considered your persistence rude, unrespectful and uncaring and I would have called you out on it.

Back to topic: "I don't care what happens to these characters" is also known as the Eight Deadly Words in fiction land. For many people, ASOIAF causes exactly that reaction, because no matter which character readers get attached to - they are most likely going to be dead before the end of the next book. Why bother? The fact that AFFC and ADWD drag on like a snail on crutches isn't helping either...

Sorry for being so direct and blunt, but people who believe that the essence of this story is in the little surprises and not in understanding the context at all are idiots.

"I would have called you out on it" :lol: c'mon now, he was the one acting like a child.

The only reason I was "persistent" was because he was f'ucking wrong about it being a spoiler and I wasn't going to abide his ignorance. It wasn't a spoiler, that's my entire point. Frankly, I don't respect the people as show watchers who do nothing more than tune in for one hour, 10 times a year, then bitch about how people are spoiling it for them because they don't understand the context. What's the point of watching an enjoyable show if you can't even talk about it? Obviously I wouldn't be a d-bag and tell him or anybody else something big that is going to happen. What's your take on this: we're discussing a character that the show has depicted, but due to time restraints isn't going to get completely developed. Is it so wrong to fill in some of the background? Like I said earlier, I get people not wanting to have things spoiled, but to consider background information that the show isn't going to have time to address "spoilers" is irrational. It leads to further ignorance.

"Gee, thanks for spoiling that for me you jerk. Not only do I now know that Gregor Clegane, or the Mountain, is the Hounds brother, I also know that he is a complete monster. I might have only thought that he merely didn't enjoy his brother so he burned his face. I could have done without you reminding me of the scene in season 1 where Ned Stark sentences him to death (for committing violent attrocities against innocents), I didn't realize they were talking about THAT Gregor Clegane/Mountain." ---- that, in a nutshell, was the type of argument you are trying to defend, you should stop. The man was literally wrong on all counts, because of his phobia of any and all "spoilers."

A healthy fear of spoilers I can and will respect. Going out of your way to make sure you are surprised by every little thing? Nah, I don't got time to protect those people from all their phantom spoilers

[Seneti]

No.

There is a difference between spoilers and filling in background on a character, like for example people who've forgotten he and sandor are even brothers. Come on.

That's not spoiling, it's reminding.

And in this case explained above this guy sounds like a total tool bag/man child.

Get a new roommate.

Sorry for being so direct and blunt, but people who believe that the essence of this story is in the little surprises and not in understanding the context at all are idiots.

"I would have called you out on it" :lol: c'mon now, he was the one acting like a child.

The only reason I was "persistent" was because he was f'ucking wrong about it being a spoiler and I wasn't going to abide his ignorance. It wasn't a spoiler, that's my entire point. Frankly, I don't respect the people as show watchers who do nothing more than tune in for one hour, 10 times a year, then bitch about how people are spoiling it for them because they don't understand the context. What's the point of watching an enjoyable show if you can't even talk about it? Obviously I wouldn't be a d-bag and tell him or anybody else something big that is going to happen. What's your take on this: we're discussing a character that the show has depicted, but due to time restraints isn't going to get completely developed. Is it so wrong to fill in some of the background? Like I said earlier, I get people not wanting to have things spoiled, but to consider background information that the show isn't going to have time to address "spoilers" is irrational. It leads to further ignorance.

It's not about whether this is "spoiling" or "reminding", it is about being polite and respecting somebody's wish not be given any information. And while I agree that your roommates reaction was kind of harsh, it still comes down to not being a d*** by forcing your knowledge on people who have absolutely no interest in it. Live and let live.

Now, enough derailing the topic.

---

@LeCygne: I wanted to mention this before: You are right about "the absence of hope". On a purely subconscious level, ASOIAF really does give off this vibe occasionally. So does the show, but it usually recovers a lot faster, ironically, often thanks to cutting a lot of (horribly depressing) plot. Let's hope TWOW will give us some more hopeful material for a change (I dare not say "uplifting", because that would be tempting fate).

[Rhaegar I Targaryen]

It's not about whether this is "spoiling" or "reminding", it is about being polite and respecting somebody's wish not be given any information. And while I agree that your roommates reaction was kind of harsh, it still comes down to not being a d*** by forcing your knowledge on people who have absolutely no interest in it. Live and let live.

Now, enough derailing the topic.

---

Not the way it works, I get to respond to this. You're taking a principled stand on something you don't understand. I'm still great friends with the guy to this day, we get in debates all the time. That's just one of the things we do as friends, because both of us like to be right. He was wrong about it being a spoiler, I was right. I told him information that was explicitly stated in the show. There was no way I was gonna sit back on that one when such a sure victory was in my sights, and I can guarantee you he wouldn't have either.

Also, this isn't even derailing the topic. I don't want to paint with a broad brush and say every viewer who has the "everyone's gonna die anyway" syndrome is a lazy show watcher, but from my experience that is the case. Like I said earlier, this is not a show that was scripted specifically for TV-- it takes a little extra work to keep up on it. Learn about the characters, read their bios on the Game of Thrones wiki, they only update it after the episodes air. No spoilers there. The show is most enjoyable when understand what's going on.

Just don't cling to willful ignorance and make me rue the day I agreed to be your roommate.

[Daske]

You can watch this (and many other shows) without knowing all the details. A lot of people don't even know the names of many of the main characters beyond 'the little Stark girl' or 'the dragon lady' but they still enjoy it if they have a rough idea of what's going on. Nine months between seasons doesn't help either.

The thing is, without 'lazy' show watchers (let's call them 'casual viewers' maybe?) we simply wouldn't have the viewing figures and so not even have a show at all. It takes all sorts - not everyone wants to care exactly how many troops Robb had or exactly how everyone is related. But it's up to them - as long as they keep watching, great!