Why would Harry the heir marry a bastard?

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Never .

[Colonel Green]

We haven't heard much about the graftons, but gull town is bigger and wealthier than wh and closer to the free cities than any of the other cities in westerns so it stands to reason.

No, it doesn't stand to reason. The Graftons have never been accorded that level of status. Indeed, Littlefinger notes that his lordly friends (the Graftons, the Lynderlys, the Corbrays) are nowhere near as powerful as the houses that have banded against his rule. The Royces are, over and over again, cited in ways that suggest they are the #2 house in the Vale.

[Lee-Sensei]

No, it doesn't stand to reason. The Graftons have never been accorded that level of status. Indeed, Littlefinger notes that his lordly friends (the Graftons, the Lynderlys, the Corbrays) are nowhere near as powerful as the houses that have banded against his rule. The Royces are, over and over again, cited in ways that suggest they are the #2 house in the Vale.

Do you have a quote? From what I remember, he says the combined strength of the houses he has friends in are weaker than the combined lds. 6 vs. 3. Not that the Royce's are more powerful than the graftons. In every other region with a city, the house that rules over the city is second to The Lord paramount.

[Colonel Green]

In every other region with a city, the house that rules over the city is second to The Lord paramount.

Which doesn't mean it's the case everywhere (one would also note that King's Landing, the biggest city, has, per ACOK, basically no soldiers other than a few thousand professional Goldcloaks, so cities don't automatically equal power in the world of Westeros). The Royces have, amongst their banners, the knights of Gull Tower, which is either in Gulltown or right beside it, per GRRM, so they control lands around Gulltown, and the Coldwaters of Coldwater Burn, on the northern coast of the Vale (making them the only known noble house in the series with non-contiguous land holdings).

The Royces are the most famed house in the Vale other than the Arryns. They were, per TWOIAF, kings prior to the Andal conquest. They supply lords protector for the Eyrie, marry Targaryens (and Starks), are on the list of houses that Tywin tries to find brides for Tyrion from (alongside people like the Hightowers). The Graftons have never been ascribed any of that kind of influence or power.

Maybe it doesn't make sense, based on the setting, that the Graftons aren't a bigger deal than they've been shown to be, but that doesn't change that they have not been presented as a big deal. They're hardly ever discussed when the Vale's nobles are brought up.

[Lee-Sensei]

Which doesn't mean it's the case everywhere (one would also note that King's Landing, the biggest city, has, per ACOK, basically no soldiers other than a few thousand professional Goldcloaks, so cities don't automatically equal power in the world of Westeros). The Royces have, amongst their banners, the knights of Gull Tower, which is either in Gulltown or right beside it, per GRRM, so they control lands around Gulltown, and the Coldwaters of Coldwater Burn, on the northern coast of the Vale (making them the only known noble house in the series with non-contiguous land holdings).

The Royces are the most famed house in the Vale other than the Arryns. They were, per TWOIAF, kings prior to the Andal conquest. They supply lords protector for the Eyrie, marry Targaryens (and Starks), are on the list of houses that Tywin tries to find brides for Tyrion from (alongside people like the Hightowers). The Graftons have never been ascribed any of that kind of influence or power.

Maybe it doesn't make sense, based on the setting, that the Graftons aren't a bigger deal than they've been shown to be, but that doesn't change that they have not been presented as a big deal. They're hardly ever discussed when the Vale's nobles are brought up.

That's kind of the point. We don't know about the graftons, but that doesn't mean they aren't of comparable power to the Royce's or even possibly stronger. As for kings landing, the noble house that rules ove kings landing is the royal family that rules over the entirety of the crow lands and westerns itself. So yes, it is a very powerful family. As are the manderlys, high towers and lannisters.

[Colonel Green]

That's kind of the point. We don't know about the graftons, but that doesn't mean they aren't of comparable power to the Royce's or even possibly stronger.

If they were that powerful, it would surely have come up by now. The other houses that are at that level get mentioned far, far more than the Graftons do, and take more active roles in the realm. Grafton isn't even a notable figure in the current Vale politics.

As for kings landing, the noble house that rules ove kings landing is the royal family that rules over the entirety of the crow lands and westerns itself. So yes, it is a very powerful family.

Yes, but ruling the city itself is basically meaningless in terms of strength, as it apparently supplies no soldiers to speak of.

[Lee-Sensei]

If they were that powerful, it would surely have come up by now. The other houses that are at that level get mentioned far, far more than the Graftons do, and take more active roles in the realm. Grafton isn't even a notable figure in the current Vale politics.

Yes, but ruling the city itself is basically meaningless in terms of strength, as it apparently supplies no soldiers to speak of.

1) The graftons are clearly one of the most notable houses in the vale. If they're at the very least the 3rd strongest in the vale, but are mentioned less than houses that are weaker than them. In the earlier books, the manderlys were only give passing mention. The hightowers are only really entering the fray now.

2) I don't know about that, at the very least ruling a city probably means that they are wealthier and as such can hire more men to fight for them.

[Harry the Hair]

As far as anyone knows she's the only child of the Lord of Harrenhal thus making her his heir and she has a VERY large dowry, so while Sweetrobin is alive, he's actually marrying up, not down. Also Harry doesn't strike me as a picky suitor; he already has two bastards by some serving girls so he's not exactly an angel himself.

[the Scorpion Knight]

As far as anyone knows she's the only child of the Lord of Harrenhal thus making her his heir and she has a VERY large dowry, so while Sweetrobin is alive, he's actually marrying up, not down. Also Harry doesn't strike me as a picky suitor; he already has two bastards by some serving girls so he's not exactly an angel himself.

the lad seems to be worse than bob.

[Lee-Sensei]

As far as anyone knows she's the only child of the Lord of Harrenhal thus making her his heir and she has a VERY large dowry, so while Sweetrobin is alive, he's actually marrying up, not down. Also Harry doesn't strike me as a picky suitor; he already has two bastards by some serving girls so he's not exactly an angel himself.

He'd be marrying up if she's Sansa Stark. As Alayne Stone, he's marrying down.

[Universal Sword Donor]

He'd be marrying up if she's Sansa Stark. As Alayne Stone, he's marrying down.

He's the Lord of the Vale if/when SR dies. I don't think he'd really be marrying up to Sansa, either given everything we know or what the characters in the book know. Either Rickon is still alive and the Lord of WF and the North, or Sansa is an attainted traitor* (?) and Arya is married to the rightful lord of WF. If anything, given what we know, it's an appropriate marriage for his station. As Alayne Stone, though, he is definitely marrying down, even with the dower and possible heir status to HH.

* Not sure if she was condemned as part of Tyrion's trial or not, but rest assured I doubt the outcome would be different

[Alayne's Shadow.]

He'd be marrying up if she's Sansa Stark. As Alayne Stone, he's marrying down.

I think Baelish's plan doesn't rely on Harry thinking he's marrying up, but rather that Alayne Stone is one of the most beautiful women alive and in the possibility that she may charm him.

[Morgul-Blade]

Have you seen Alayne Stone? I mean, come on - I'd marry her - no doubt.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

This has probably already been said but...

1) Money. Bastard or not, Littlefinger can give her one heck of a dowry.

2) She can be legitimized and made heir to all of Littlefinger's money.

3) She's a fox.

[Morgul-Blade]

This has probably already been said but...

1) Money. Bastard or not, Littlefinger can give her one heck of a dowry.

2) She can be legitimized and made heir to all of Littlefinger's money.

3) She's a fox.

See: 3 (aka the only reason needed)

[Blow My Horn]

People always overthink Harry - Sansa. Her marriage to Tyrion will not hold up, septas can confirm the lack of consummation.

It also doesn't really matter whether Harry falls for her. He will marry who he is told to marry and do it with a smile. LF asking Sansa to "convince" Harry is more for her benefit after the KL ordeal. There is no real choice for either.

I have a feeling Lady Waynwood will regale Harry with vague statements like "there is more to Alayne than meets the eye" or some such. And it is my opinion that Sansa uses this marriage to turn the tables on LF. He sees her as a protege but also a pretty bird in his own style of cage. Thusly Sansa becomes LF's blind spot. He thinks he owns her but once the cat is out of the bag she becomes one of the most powerful people by bloodline/marriage in Westeros and there is no shortage of grievances to motivate lords to her side.

One other opinion: LF isn't looking to marry Sansa. He gets joy from twisting her into another version of himself. This is his vengeance on both Tully and Stark.

[Bironic]

See: 3 (aka the only reason needed)

From what we hear about Harry he seems the Brandon Stark type. I agree that he would want to bed Alayne, but does he want to wed her? I can't see the heir of the Vale marrying a bastard.

[Harry the Hair]

He'd be marrying up if she's Sansa Stark. As Alayne Stone, he's marrying down.

Sansa Stark has nothing but her name and even that is questionable thanks to her marriage to Tyrion.

As I said before, while Sweetrobin lives (which could actually be for a nice long while^{*see Walder Frey} unless killed) Harry has nothing but his status as Robert's heir and even that isn't set in stone; Sweetrobin could name a different heir from another branch of Arryns, Sweetrobin could actually live to see adulthood and have children (remember that the extent of Robert's illness is kept secret from the other lords, so as far as Harry knows his cousin could recover and have children), or someone with a better claim could be discovered, like Harry's aunt that was kidnapped by the burned men. Alayne however has quite a bit going for her; she's beautiful, rich and her father is Lord Protector of the Vale AND Lord of Harrenhal. Bastards can be legitimized so by marrying Alayne Baelish he's definitely marrying up.

[Harry the Hair]

From what we hear about Harry he seems the Brandon Stark type. I agree that he would want to bed Alayne, but does he want to wed her? I can't see the heir of the Vale marrying a bastard.

Brandon Stark seemed to be ok with marrying Catelyn, same could be valid for Harry.

[Lee-Sensei]

Sansa Stark has nothing but her name and even that is questionable thanks to her marriage to Tyrion.

As I said before, while Sweetrobin lives (which could actually be for a nice long while^{*see Walder Frey} unless killed) Harry has nothing but his status as Robert's heir and even that isn't set in stone; Sweetrobin could name a different heir from another branch of Arryns, Sweetrobin could actually live to see adulthood and have children (remember that the extent of Robert's illness is kept secret from the other lords, so as far as Harry knows his cousin could recover and have children), or someone with a better claim could be discovered, like Harry's aunt that was kidnapped by the burned men. Alayne however has quite a bit going for her; she's beautiful, rich and her father is Lord Protector of the Vale AND Lord of Harrenhal. Bastards can be legitimized so by marrying Alayne Baelish he's definitely marrying up.

No. He's marrying down. House Baelish is a very young House with a lot of nominal power. Harry is the heir to the Vale. SR may live to have children, but for now thats how it is. Jon Snow is the acknowledged bastard of one of the oldest Houses in Westeros, but I doubt he has great marriage prospects. Mya is a Kings bastard, and Sansa says that if she'd been officially acknowledged, Lothar Brune would be a good match for her. It's not about beauty or money. It's about prestige, and Baelish doesn't have it.