Leonardo Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Leonardo, I didn't get it my first read-through. I guess I'm a stupid, filthy pleb, eh? Course not ;D But you realized something was up right, otherwise you just weren't paying attention haha I didn't really get it until a show fan started asking me questions about where Jon came from and who his mother was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I used the pollination process as an analogy to human reproduction. And the troll didn't get it.So you already know that sperms develop in the male testes, then the prostate gland provides the semen in which the sperm swim through. It is "single- fertilization", while pollination is double-fertilization in that the male haploid plant fertilizes both the polar bodies and the ovum, forming the endosperm and the embryo.But the process of fertilization require both a male and a female compenent. So in that point it is valid in that to get Jon we need Rhaegar's sperm and Lyanna's ovum. I thought it was a legit analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Everyone I know who watches the show knows about it, along with everyone who has read the books. It's one of the first things to come up when people start talking about the series.You have very unique acquaintances, then. In the first season of "Game", Rhaegar's name is said exactly four times over ten episodes, and so is Lyanna's. Blink and you missed it. Hell, that's barely enough to even make a casual viewer aware that those two exist in the show's universe. It's not encrypted at all, it was easy to find and it just remains totally unstated in the series. You'd have to have awful reading comprehension to not notice the whole "Ned's secret" thing and not at least try and guess what his promise might be. It's pretty obvious from that scene something fishy is intended. Possible. Maybe it was obvious, and yet I missed it. Maybe my reading comprehension is indeed awful, but I'll say it's not worse than average Joe's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyse Stark Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 What, so the whole realm becomes the Wall then? He has the same choice when offered to become Lord of Winterfell, and denies it. He'd have had the whole North to man the wall (which is waaaay more than enough men) after Stannis' victory He'd have to essentially demolish the whole idea of the Iron Throne and make it into a new kingdom, and then what is the point of inheriting it lol? Jon kind of is an idiot in many people's eyes, but he's an idiot with honor.I actually think the throne will fall to Jon, after many of the previous claimants are dead, and there's only Cersei left. Many people and lords will see Jon as a better alternative to the Bitch Queen, and you already know how incompetent she is. I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei becomes very unpopular because of her constant lying, her incompetency, her power-thirst and the fact that she's a narcisstic bully.Jon, on the other hand, has spent his life protecting the realm from the true threat, and if he become King, he'll have better resources at his hand to protect Westeros from the Others. He would take the kingship if he see it as a route to help stop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt b Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Most importantly, Jon's HONOR is wrapped up in the NW; if he does take the throne, it's going to take one hell of a transformation and he'll be an oathbreaker and deserter - no matter what. Not unless he dies and is brought back to life. Death would relinquish him from his oath. And all of this assuming that Jon does in fact become king. Even if he is a Targaryen, circumstances could move the throne away from him, but there may be another use for someone with Targ blood. Perhaps as a dragonrider, perhaps as someone to continue the Targ line (assuming Dany is barren and unable to give birth to Targs herself). But there are other possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Not unless he dies and is brought back to life. Death would relinquish him from his oath. And all of this assuming that Jon does in fact become king. Even if he is a Targaryen, circumstances could move the throne away from him, but there may be another use for someone with Targ blood. Perhaps as a dragonrider, perhaps as someone to continue the Targ line (assuming Dany is barren and unable to give birth to Targs herself). But there are other possibilities. Eh but that is such a lame legal loophole haha I agree he'd still have uses, but I think by now it's clear even if it's true, Jon won't be king, not unless he goes through some drastic changes to his character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt b Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Eh but that is such a lame legal loophole haha If you say so, I don't agree. I agree he'd still have uses, but I think by now it's clear even if it's true, Jon won't be king, not unless he goes through some drastic changes to his character. Yeah, probably so. And? What's wrong with character growth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 If you say so, I don't agree. Yeah, probably so. And? What's wrong with character growth?Nothing, I'm just saying that's the only way I see it happening, and that it means Jon is essentially turning away from everything Ned ever taught him and turning into a character we won't recognize really. Any other way would be lame, so that is the way I see it going downHey it's all my opinion; I still see R+L as being one of the most likely options, but that is a big part of why I think it won't happen.Oh Jeez now I'll have to wade through 20 pages to get here lol, thanks for the merge though Ser Moddenstein ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 It definitely wasn't a birth, Lyanna didn't die during childbirth, she died of a fever.Puerperal fever. Google it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 And it just keeps going.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Oh dear...I was so hoping for a moment of sanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 How about going back to the question of how Ned and a few of his men knew where to find Lyanna. Who spilled the beans, (no pun intended) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Sorry, Alia...Most importantly, Jon's HONOR is wrapped up in the NW; if he does take the throne, it's going to take one hell of a transformation and he'll be an oathbreaker and deserter - no matter what. Jon kind of is an idiot in many people's eyes, but he's an idiot with honor. Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters. Whatever it takes to stop the Blight. Kill the boy and let the man be born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Okay..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Okay..... :-) To your previous question: any new suggestions to add to the usual list of suspects, i.e. Ashara, Ethan Glover and an Unnamed Person Yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubarey Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Is Reed a Warg? Could he have used his powers and some hints to fine the hiding place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyse Stark Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters. Hey that's Javik's line! And yes he is from Mass Effect 3, Ygrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Hey that's Javik's line! And yes he is from Mass Effect 3, Ygrain.Believe me, when I quote something, I know where it comes from :PME3, DA:O, ASOIAF. Hm, hm, what might those three have in common... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkbringer Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I scoff at your idea. I actually think Ashara Dayne is dead. She committed suicide, and I wouldn't be surprised if her body was washed out to sea, just like Harold Holt's was in 1967. Haha spot the Aussie. Of course, 'doing the Harry Holt' means doing a disappearing act... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenFire3 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 So, what happened? Threadinception? :wideeyed: Spanning from anatomy to botany with a nice ichthyology interlude, this topic is getting perilously similar to a National Geography doc :lol: I don't think he changed it because people figured it out, I think he changed it because it would have been pretty cliche and boring in comparison to some of the other things he's done in the series. What you call cliché, an author with a deep understanding of classical themes would call archetype. All stories have already been told, in a way or another. I could make a long list of classical tragedies and myths (not to mention hystorical events) that resonate strongly with 'the other things he's done in the series'. What distinguish a great author from a mediocre one is the way to sing the song, the emotion he/she infuses the story with, the ability to make variations on a given theme.I also don't fully comprehend this sort of 'proprietary feeling' some people display. That 'if the story doesn't go the way I prefer then it's a boring cliché' attitude. ASoIaF belongs exclusivey to GRRM to be told and sung the way he wishes and wills. We, as readers, can only decide to keep on reading or not. I for one am sure that wherever Martin will take us, it will be (it already is) an unforgettable ride. I trust his talent&genius and wouldn't presume to go and tell him how developing his story. Also: The fans use to come up with theories; lots of them are just speculative but some of them are in the right way. Before the Internet, one reader could guess the ending you wanna do for your novel, but the other 10.000 wouldn’t know anything and they would be surprised. However, now, those 10.000 people use the Internet and read the right theories. They say: “Oh God, the butler did it!”, to use an example of a mystery novel. Then, you think: “I have to change the ending! The maiden would be the criminal!” To my mind that way is a disaster because if you are doing well you work, the books are full of clues that point to the butler doing it and help you to figure up the butler did it, but if you change the ending to point the maiden, the clues make no sense anymore; they are wrong or are lies, and I am not a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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