True Detective V

[aceluby]

Meh. I didn't find any of those situations to be porny, nor did I find it objectifying women. And I'll reserve judgement on Beth until it's clear there is nothing else there. She was clearly going to some lengths to get Marty in bed and the pictures seemed unnecessary so early in the dalliance.

Yeah, I didn't either, especially given that she's a former prostitute, or that she went out of her way to hit on the 'hero' that personally reached out to her when she was being victimized. She's in there to show how weak willed Hart actually is, the bar scene, the sex scene, and the 'fuck me in the ass' scene all show that he can't control himself. It also parallels Cohle when Maggie throws herself at him when he's drunk. It's something they actually have in common that neither would admit to.

[Mark Antony]

Yeah, plus McConaughey got all that screen time with Ginger.

Which in all honesty is a totally valid reason to be upset.

I was under the impression that everything we see in the flashbacks really happened even if/when they were lying to the cops?

Re-watching last nights episode and gotta say my favorite scene by a decent margin was Rust at the Preachers house. Shea Whigham is just awesome. Both actors were brilliant in that scene imo.

[The Human Abstract]

Can I ask a dangerous question here safely?

Why is it wrong for shows to portray women being objectified? As they clearly are often so in real life.

Or is the argument that the woman is being objectified for *our* sakes by HBO's VP of T&A? THAT I can understand completely.

Although, as a southerner, I could probably go nuts with the amount of hick, idiot, racist, religious wacko, etc. stereotypes in all these shows. But, of course, those people really do exist in some numbers or the stereotypes probably would not.

[stinkfinger]

The preview showed a close up of one of the robbers and the face looked just like Rust.

[Kalbear]

Or is the argument that the woman is being objectified for *our* sakes by HBO's VP of T&A? THAT I can understand completely.

That would be it, yes.

It's also not 'wrong', it's just often so very one-sided. We don't see the objectification of the men. We don't see the porn side for the men.

Basically, what we're asking for is shots of Ginger's ass. And we got none.

[Mexal]

That would be it, yes.

It's also not 'wrong', it's just often so very one-sides. We don't see the objectification of the men. We don't see the porn side for the men.

Basically, what we're asking for is shots of Ginger's ass. And we got none.

Can you elaborate on the porn side? I mean, women having sex on top then leaning down into their partner isn't what I'd consider porn sex since well, I have sex like that and I'm no porn star. Or is it just because you see their breasts but not Marty's?

[The Human Abstract]

That would be it, yes.

It's also not 'wrong', it's just often so very one-sided. We don't see the objectification of the men. We don't see the porn side for the men.

Basically, what we're asking for is shots of Ginger's ass. And we got none.

That's fair enough.

HBO does it in pretty much every show too.

[Maithanet]

Can I ask a dangerous question here safely?

Why is it wrong for shows to portray women being objectified? As they clearly are often so in real life.

Or is the argument that the woman is being objectified for *our* sakes by HBO's VP of T&A? THAT I can understand completely.

Although, as a southerner, I could probably go nuts with the amount of hick, idiot, racist, religious wacko, etc. stereotypes in all these shows. But, of course, those people really do exist in some numbers or the stereotypes probably would not.

You can ask that question, but it doesn't have a simple answer. There are a lot of feminism discussions in gen chat that might help you understand the issue of the objectification of women in pop culture. If you want to discuss HBO's need for T&A in most of their shows, that probably needs a separate thread.

[Anatúrinbor]

Could someone listen to this song from the 6th episode and tell me what is said at about 30 seconds, "I just had to let the (...)"

I swear I can hear her saying 'Ginger' there. Or this Ginger stuff is really starting to mess with my head...

[Jabronius Maximus]

Wasn't Rust also a victim in this episode? I mean Maggie basically used him to get out of her marriage.

I get that it's not objectification in any sense, but throws a bit of a counter in there at least.

[Francis Buck]

The preview showed a close up of one of the robbers and the face looked just like Rust.

I think it's definitely Rust, but what's interesting is that there are three robbers shown. I believe we're going to see Marty put his resources to use (doesn't he run a private security agency or something?).

[Kalbear]

Can you elaborate on the porn side? I mean, women having sex on top then leaning down into their partner isn't what I'd consider porn sex since well, I have sex like that and I'm no porn star. Or is it just because you see their breasts but not Marty's?

Okay, think about the ep 2 scene with Lisa and Marty. He's handcuffed and barely in the frame. We have a long shot of her slowly taking off her shirt. Then we see briefly Marty's face. Then it goes back to her turning around, and taking off her shorts while bending over. Her breasts remain in frame virtually the entire time. She then proceeds to get on top of Marty - again, breasts in frame - and slowly go down him while rubbing her breasts against him.

Heck, describing it sounds porny.

The woman on top to show her boobs and ass is similarly revealing. Lots of long shots of her full body, not a remote shot of his. (note in both cases Marty isn't naked or even topless as far as we can tell). This is a pretty common way to show off women's goods in TV and movies. It's a softcore porn staple, if you've ever watched that stuff on Cinemax. It's not hardcore porn, but it's about as close to softcore porn as they come.

What's funny is that in the same ep we get a sex scene that is decidedly not porny and not objectifying. Yeah, we get Maggie's ass, but we get Rust's too. Her pulling down her panties isn't sexy; it's vulnerable and unkempt. their sex is raw and passionate but not particularly sexy to watch. It's sad and gruesome to some degree. And it focuses on Maggie's reaction, not Rust's. It was very well filmed and did a great job of showing us how the people feel and think.

Wasn't Rust also a victim in this episode? I mean Maggie basically used him to get out of her marriage.

Absolutely, and Maggie admits to this as well in her apology.

[Mexal]

Okay, think about the ep 2 scene with Lisa and Marty. He's handcuffed and barely in the frame. We have a long shot of her slowly taking off her shirt. Then we see briefly Marty's face. Then it goes back to her turning around, and taking off her shorts while bending over. Her breasts remain in frame virtually the entire time. She then proceeds to get on top of Marty - again, breasts in frame - and slowly go down him while rubbing her breasts against him.

Heck, describing it sounds porny.

The woman on top to show her boobs and ass is similarly revealing. Lots of long shots of her full body, not a remote shot of his. (note in both cases Marty isn't naked or even topless as far as we can tell). This is a pretty common way to show off women's goods in TV and movies. It's a softcore porn staple, if you've ever watched that stuff on Cinemax. It's not hardcore porn, but it's about as close to softcore porn as they come.

What's funny is that in the same ep we get a sex scene that is decidedly not porny and not objectifying. Yeah, we get Maggie's ass, but we get Rust's too. Her pulling down her panties isn't sexy; it's vulnerable and unkempt. their sex is raw and passionate but not particularly sexy to watch. It's sad and gruesome to some degree. And it focuses on Maggie's reaction, not Rust's. It was very well filmed and did a great job of showing us how the people feel and think.

Don't you think that it was purposely done to show the contrast between the two types of sex on display? One fun, exciting and engaging for both partners and another vulnerable, unkempt, raw and hurtful? The difference between the way Marty treats sex with someone other than Maggie and the way Maggie treats it?

I don't know. I guess given the lack of gratuitous sex scenes in this show (no 4 minute lesbian scene just for Littlefinger to lay out his entire plan), I'd think we'd give the filmmakers a bit more benefit of the doubt other than just T&A.

[stinkfinger]

I would say it's too risky for that but episode 6 did leave it open to the fact the drunk preacher might be willing to make things right. After his conversation with Rust, I would rule him out of too much involvement with the 5 horseman / yellow king / spaghetti man / etc. I can't really think of another good candidate for the 2nd an 3rd people in mask that would not only have motive but could be trusted and would be willing to risk so much.

[aceluby]

Don't you think that it was purposely done to show the contrast between the two types of sex on display? One fun, exciting and engaging for both partners and another vulnerable, unkempt, raw and hurtful?

I'd also say the raw unkempt sex scene was miles more erotic than any of the 'porny' scenes involving Marty. The one thing that popped out to me is that the 'porny' scenes were compared to cinemax, and if you've watched it ever I think we can all agree that it's some of the most fake stuff out there. The scene with Rust was raw and real. I think there's a purpose for that and without the comparison the sex scene between Rust and Maggie isn't as impactful, IMO.

[Maithanet]

Don't you think that it was purposely done to show the contrast between the two types of sex on display? One fun, exciting and engaging for both partners and another vulnerable, unkempt, raw and hurtful? The difference between the way Marty treats sex with someone other than Maggie and the way Maggie treats it?

I think you're letting your own male gaze get the better of you. Do you think that a woman would find the description Kal provided as of the ep. 2 scene as "fun exciting and engaging for both partners"?

Even if Woody Harrelson were replaced with Channing Tatum, it is hard to imagine the Marty-Beth sex scene as "engaging for both partners", as the he essentially isn't even in the shot.

[Kalbear]

Don't you think that it was purposely done to show the contrast between the two types of sex on display? One fun, exciting and engaging for both partners and another vulnerable, unkempt, raw and hurtful? The difference between the way Marty treats sex with someone other than Maggie and the way Maggie treats it?

Not really because we didn't get that dichotomy in ep 2. Nor did we get it with the random gratuitous stripper parts when Marty is going to interview folks in eps 3 and 4. Just this one. I think we were meant to see the emotional instability and massive inconsistency in Marty's protectiveness towards women combined with how he actually treats them, but that's been a theme for a while; this doesn't cover anything new.

And I don't think this is how Maggie treats sex; we've seen her have sex with Marty, after all, and that wasn't treated that way then. This is how she gets revenge and closure. How she makes sure that Marty never, ever tries to come after her again. How she makes herself damaged goods. This is how Lisa did it too, if you recall.

[Mark Antony]

Once again

is definitely worth a watch.

[kairparavel]

What about the portrayal of sex from two different vantage points: Maggie's broken emotional state and Marty's bagging a hottie? The porn is built into his reflection upon it. It's porny because that is how he remembers it?

I feel like that is an important factor in reflecting how these characters are portrayed. Much of Maggie is presented via Marty's POV and he was clearly only semi present in their marriage, so we never get all of her.

Dunno.

[Mexal]

I think you're letting your own male gaze get the better of you. Do you think that a woman would find the description Kal provided as of the ep. 2 scene as "fun exciting and engaging for both partners"?

Even if Woody Harrelson were replaced with Channing Tatum, it is hard to imagine the Marty-Beth sex scene as "engaging for both partners", as the he essentially isn't even in the shot.

As a description, maybe not, but you're telling me that women don't have sex like that and that Beth wasn't enjoying herself? I'm not looking at this from the point of view of an audience member but more Marty/Beth's feelings during the act. And if you ask me, they looked like they were having a pretty good time.

Not really because we didn't get that dichotomy in ep 2. Nor did we get it with the random gratuitous stripper parts when Marty is going to interview folks in eps 3 and 4. Just this one. I think we were meant to see the emotional instability and massive inconsistency in Marty's protectiveness towards women combined with how he actually treats them, but that's been a theme for a while; this doesn't cover anything new.

And I don't think this is how Maggie treats sex; we've seen her have sex with Marty, after all, and that wasn't treated that way then. This is how she gets revenge and closure. How she makes sure that Marty never, ever tries to come after her again. How she makes herself damaged goods. This is how Lisa did it too, if you recall.

Does the dichotomy have to be in every episode for it to exist? That wasn't the point in episode 2. And random gratuitous stripper parts in a show that deals with the murder of prostitutes. Eh. Color me surprised that ended up in the show.

Sorry, how Maggie treated sex in that instant, not her overall view of sex.