King Robert Baratheon, an underrated king?

[Lee-Sensei]

Cause his reign, family, advisers, guard all played a part in TWot5Ks. And him letting corrupt people into the Kingdom and not doing his job played a part in TWot5Ks which has weakened the realm for a ice zombie invasion.

And yes I blame Ned for the rebellion also along with Arryn, Hoster, Tywin and Rhaegar too

He can't be held responsible for what his family have done. He was dead. How can you blame him for that? You know what. Then let's blame Jaeherys and Aegon IV for the things that Aerys did. They're family so it's okay, right? Not to mention one of the two leading figures in causing the war was brought over by Aerys.

And you don't blame Aerys for the Rebellion? Even though he's more at fault then anyone else?

[The guy from the Vale]

Robert is not responsible directly for what happened after his death. But he is responsible for letting the people who made the Wot5K possible in the first place near the levers of power. He rewarded the Lannisters for their crimes by keeping Jaime in the KG (instead of having him take the black) and marrying Cersei (subsequently enabling the incest). He promoted LF to Master of Coin. He kept Varys and Pycelle in the council. He showed obvious favoritism to0 Renly, so much that the latter thought he was fit to be king (although he was fit to be a better king than Robert, granted).

[The Marquis de Leech]

Robert was an abysmal King.

- He is partly responsible for turning Joffrey into the person he became.

- He let Balon Greyjoy keep his lordship.

- He kept Varys and Jaime around.

- His bankruptcy of the crown left him dangerously dependent on Tywin Lannister and Littlefinger.

- He alienated Stannis.

- He thought Ned Stark would be a good idea.

Robert's neglect of his heir, his duties, and the realm led to untold bloodshed, strife, and suffering.

[Minsc]

All Robert did with his dynasty was let people like the Lannisters, Littlefinger, Varys and other monsters gain control when they shouldn't have, Robert opened doors and gave massive power out to people who wanted to burn cities I don't think he's much better than Aerys.

Aerys gave power to the Lannisters and Varys also, thus only LF can be blamed on Robert and Jon.

[Lee-Sensei]

Robert is not responsible directly for what happened after his death. But he is responsible for letting the people who made the Wot5K possible in the first place near the levers of power. He rewarded the Lannisters for their crimes by keeping Jaime in the KG (instead of having him take the black) and marrying Cersei (subsequently enabling the incest). He promoted LF to Master of Coin. He kept Varys and Pycelle in the council. He showed obvious favoritism to0 Renly, so much that the latter thought he was fit to be king (although he was fit to be a better king than Robert, granted).

How is he supposed to know what they're thinking? Keeing Jaime in the KG and marring Cersei was Jon Arryn's idea. Jon Arryn let LF on the Small Council (at Lysa's request). GRRM himself has said that Robert giving Renly Storms End and Stannis Dragonstone wasn't a slight. He gave Stannis dragonstone because Stannis was his heir until Joffrey was born.

Robert wasn't a good king, but he can't be blamed for what others have done. Blame him for his spending and ignoring matters of state. We can't blame him for the actions of the Lannisters, Varys, Pycelle, LF, Renly or any other noble that played a part in bringing about the War.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Robert was a charismatic leader, he was able to turn enemies to loyal friends who would die by his side. He didn't used his power to masaccre people who opposed him as he could have done notable examples: Raynes, Tarbeck, Darklyn, Hollard. He didn't put villages to the sword like what happened to Goodbrook's villages. It’s funny to see people claiming that he should be Tywinlike cruel and had destroyed the Greyjoys but when it comes to the Targs he should had be all lovable and kind and when it comes to Tywin he should be condemned for being cruel. Robert gets all the blame for killing Rhaegar and for what Tywin did which is completely and utterly :bs:

[The guy from the Vale]

How is he supposed to know what they're thinking? Keeing Jaime in the KG and marring Cersei was Jon Arryn's idea. Jon Arryn let LF on the Small Council (at Lysa's request). GRRM himself has said that Robert giving Renly Storms End and Stannis Dragonstone wasn't a slight. He gave Stannis dragonstone because Stannis was his heir until Joffrey was born.

Robert wasn't a good king, but he can't be blamed for what others have done. Blame him for his spending and ignoring matters of state. We can't blame him for the actions of the Lannisters, Varys, Pycelle, LF, Renly or any other noble that played a part in bringing about the War.

He's not supposed to know what they are thinking, but he is responsible for giving them as much power as he did. A more hands-on king would have noticed some shenenigans way earlier (like for example the incest, which seems to have been almost common knowledge at court...) His indifference in fiscal matters empowered Littlefinger. And so on.

He could have married Cersei and still sent Jaime to the Wall, for example. He could have noticed Littlefinger's corrupt schemes. He had no need to keep Varys. There's so much he could have done if he had just been paying a shred of attention.

And the problem with Robert is that his neglect of the matters of state directly led to the Lannisters, Varys, Pycelle, Renly and Baelish to have the power they had. A stronger king's will would not have been ignored like Robert's was. A more attentive king would have noticed the incest. A more fiscally responsible king would have had more control over Littlefinger. And so on.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I don't think a Tywinesque solution would have been appropriate in dealing with the Ironborn, but really there is no excuse for allowing Balon to keep his lordship. Either give the Iron Islands to a different family, or axe Balon, Victarion, and Euron, and install Theon as a boy lord with oversight from, say, the Blackfish or Kevan Lannister.

[C0bR]

Generally underrated - yes, even though he really does not have much going for him.

He saved the world from Rhaegar Targaryen though and for that he'll always have place in my book of bros.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Generally underrated - yes, even though he really does not have much going for him.

He saved the world from Rhaegar Targaryen though and for that he'll always have place in my book of bros.

Agree. Robert is generally underrated. He is a good person, most of the times, and people keep blaming him for killing the silver emo prince and for what Tywin did.

He wasn't a great King but he wasn't a bad King either he was an indiferent just ok King.

[Ingelheim]

I don't think a Tywinesque solution would have been appropriate in dealing with the Ironborn, but really there is no excuse for allowing Balon to keep his lordship. Either give the Iron Islands to a different family, or axe Balon, Victarion, and Euron, and install Theon as a boy lord with oversight from, say, the Blackfish or Kevan Lannister.

I would have made Balon and his brothers take the black.

For the Robert thing...neither him or Aerys were good kings. Both did terrible things:

-His bankruptcy of the crown left him dependent on Tywin Lannister and the Iron Bank

-He kept Varys and Jaime around. I love both of them, but it wasn't smart

-Made Cersei hate him (although she's a bitch)

-Made Renly and Stannis enemies of each other

-He didn't care about his sons, and we all know how that ended.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

-Made Cersei hate him (although she's a bitch)

That would mean that Cersei was at some point willing to be his wife, which she was not. Melara made Cersei to hate her, is that her mistake? Baby Tyrion made Cersei to hate him, is that his mistake?

[AintNoStark]

Made Cersei hate him? Whoever said this doesn't have the right to claim they've read the books.

Cersei was continuing her incest with Jaime before and after marrying Robert; she was in no position to hate anyone. Other way around. This despicable woman would've not been happy with any husband short of a totally whipped lackey, which Robert was not going to be.

[Ingelheim]

That would mean that Cersei was at some point willing to be his wife, which she was not. Melara made Cersei to hate her, is that her mistake? Baby Tyrion made Cersei to hate him, is that his mistake?

She was very excited at first (Even if her illusions were because of Robert, the crown, or whatever). But neither she nor Robert did nothing for the marriage.

It's the eternal debate over whether Robert raped Cersei. You can argue that he did (my personal opinion is yes), he didn't, etc.. But you can not deny that Robert AT NO TIME tried to love Cersei. His love was finished when Lyanna died. Both were guilty.

[AintNoStark]

Cersei was a psychopath long before she married Robert.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

She was very excited at first (Even if her illusions were because of Robert, the crown, or whatever). But neither she nor Robert did nothing for the marriage.

It's the eternal debate over whether Robert raped Cersei. You can argue that he did (my personal opinion is yes), he didn't, etc.. But you can not deny that Robert AT NO TIME tried to love Cersei. His love was finished when Lyanna died. Both were guilty.

I was thinking more of the fact that as she said she f***ed Jaime the morning before her marriage. She was excited to be the Queen not because of her husband. You would be wrong tho, Robert did tried in his own way to, not love, but get closer to Cersei.

Cersei was a psychopath long before she married Robert.

True.

[AintNoStark]

Cersei can have sex with Jaime on the morning of her wedding day, but Robert can't speak his true love's name during the wedding night.

Beautiful equality right there.

[Waylin Stark]

He was a good leader and a warrior. But a bad ruler and a King.

Sure, he appointed smart people to look after the realm, but he shirked his responsibilities and never even tried to learn how to rule or become a better king. And he worked up such a huge debt.

Also, his Small Council wasn't that great. Littlefinger was a plotter, who managed to plant his people everywhere and become too powerful. Also he borrowed money from everywhere and did nothing to quell the debt.

Varys too was a plotter.

He alienated Stannis by taking away Storm's End and blaming him.

Only one rebellion during his rule, but he should have seen that he didn't exactly win over Balon Greyjoy, and should have executed him.

[Steinnis]

A drunken lout.

''If he couldn't fight it, fuck it, or drink it, it bored him.''

^ sums him up pretty much ^

he wasnt fit to rule.

[Ingelheim]

I was thinking more of the fact that as she said she f***ed Jaime the morning before her marriage. She was excited to be the Queen not because of her husband. You would be wrong tho, Robert did tried in his own way to, not love, but get closer to Cersei.

I don't think that he tried to approach Cersei. At least, I don't remember reading that. But I do remember reading that the day Cersei conceived Joffrey, Robert was f **** with another woman. Or that he hit her(on more than one occasion).

I'm not trying to justify Cersei. That, never. But I can't understand people who claim that the fact that the marriage between them was terrible was 100% Cersei's fault.