Frey Pie Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 "Joffrey, when your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you." And again, that's only if he can beat him at sea.Ha sorry but you realise that Tywin is the one of the biggest hypocrites in the series? Balon has rebelled twice and made a fool of him once. Tywin would destroy Balon with the full power of the arbor. He's destroyed two houses for rebelling once. He was part of the destruction of the darklyns also. Tywin hates Tyrion whoring yet he uses them himself. He hated his father giving jewels to his woman yet allows shae to wear his own. Talks about sparing ten thousand men by taking down Robb but is party to the death of thousands at the wedding as well as spreading destruction on a huge scale in the Riverlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Two isn't enough? Do we have any one else alive at beginning of the series that has wiped out even a single house? It wouldn't be practical, or even possible, to wipe out every House that defies you. But it would be even less practical to leave a man who has started two rebellions in power. It would be completely out of character for Tywin to spare Balon, and Balon would have to be an even bigger idiot than he seems to think Tywin would spare even if he surrendered. Tywin might not wipe out his entire line sense Asha could be the Sansa equivalent of the Greyjoys and used to marry in someone that Tywin trusts, but Balon has to die. That means no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco_Dracul Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Exactly I dont understand why people on here think it was a better idea for him to attack the Westerlands, the North was depleted and had a boy for its King. If he's declaring independence it would secure the support of the North, a group that likewise want independence and the Westerlands are the richest part of the seven kingdoms. On the other hand the Iron Throne will not offer independence and the westcoast of the the North is one of the single poorest regions in the seven kingdoms. Attacking the Westerlands gains an ally and huge amounts of wealth, attacking the North gets jack. If he wanted to get revenge against the North and win favor with Tywin it would have been a great plan. As it stands it the single most counter productive plan in the series and would have never work as who ever held the Iron Throne would give everything to bring the Iron Born to heel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 That means no. I had already said no in a previous post. How many Houses does he need to wipe out for you to believe he would kill Balon for rebelling twice and burning his fleet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I would think he would be more likely to deal with Balon like he did the Reynes and Tarbecks but to each his own. That's a faulty comparison. The Reynes and Tarbecks didn't simply rebel, they threatened the existance of Tywin and his house directly. Balon has done no such thing (he would have, had he attacked the Westerlands). Furthermore, the Reynes and Tarbecks never sent ravens with offers of peace (which Balon did), it seems very much as if Tywin was in a "kill or be killed" situation there. Naturally, he killed. With Balon, that's simply not the case, so I really don't see what relevance those examples bear, when compared with his actual advice to the King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 That's a faulty comparison. The Reynes and Tarbecks didn't simply rebel, they threatened the existance of Tywin and his house directly. Balon has done no such thing (he would have, had he attacked the Westerlands). Furthermore, the Reynes and Tarbecks never sent ravens with offers of peace (which Balon did), it seems very much as if Tywin was in a "kill or be killed" situation there. Naturally, he killed. With Balon, that's simply not the case, so I really don't see what relevance those examples bear, when compared with his actual advice to the King. He did attack the Westerlands, he had the Lannister fleet burned at anchor. You think Tywin has forgotten that? If Balon wanted to be a king he picked the wrong man to make try and make an alliance with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 That's a faulty comparison. The Reynes and Tarbecks didn't simply rebel, they threatened the existance of Tywin and his house directly. Balon has done no such thing (he would have, had he attacked the Westerlands).Furthermore, the Reynes and Tarbecks never sent ravens with offers of peace (which Balon did), it seems very much as if Tywin was in a "kill or be killed" situation there. Naturally, he killed. With Balon, that's simply not the case, so I really don't see what relevance those examples bear, when compared with his actual advice to the King.Balon had rebelled twice now, once directly against Tywin's regime. He cannot be trusted and Tywin is smart enough to realise this. His head would role and some Lannister friend would get Balon role as leader of the Isles. Not to mention the whole loss of face he suffered to Balon during his first rebellion. Tywin doesn't suffer slights - Aerys, Elia, Robb Stark, the Riverlands etc etc. Seriously how do people still take Tywin at his word? It's well established he's a huge hypocrite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegon the Great Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Maybe he wanted vengeance against the Starks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 He did attack the Westerlands, he had the Lannister fleet burned at anchor. These two things are not the same. You cannot compare the Reynes and Tarbecks trying to take over the Westerlands to Balon burning some ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Seriously how do people still take Tywin at his word? It's well established he's a huge hypocrite Him being a hypochrite does not mean every word out of his mouth is a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Him being a hypochrite does not mean every word out of his mouth is a lie.No but such a pretentious statement from someone with Tywin's history. ... come on. When he had trouble from another bannerman he sent a musician to play the rains of Castamere ie keep going the way you are and I will destroy your house. That's Tywin's diplomacy with those who cross him which Balon has done twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 What a naive statement, the entire continent is not united and never will be, the only people who care about the North is Northmen, and some Rivermen but they will look out for #1 everytime.The continent doesn't need to be united to piss them all off.He's pissed off the North/ Riverlands by attacking the NorthHe's posses off the Lannisters, Renly/Tyrells, and Stannis by crowning himself.Only Dorne and the Veil are not mad at him.No matter who wins the war, they're coming tor him. Stannis, Renly, and Lannisters will not allow him to stay independent, Robb and the Northerners will want revenge. By allowing his pride to take over and deny an alliance while also crowning himself, he's lost. Either independence with a Northern alliance or attack the North with no crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 He's posses off the Lannisters, Renly/Tyrells, and Stannis by crowning himself. Got any textual backup for this statement ? Because Tywin's response to him crowning himself says otherwise. He was dismissive for the moment, as long as Balon is fighting the Northmen, but he certainly didn't seem pissed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Got any textual backup for this statement ? Because Tywin's response to him crowning himself says otherwise. He was dismissive for the moment, as long as Balon is fighting the Northmen, but he certainly didn't seem pissed off.I think it's pretty clear Tywin would not allow Balon to keep his crown. Yes, allow Balon to do his dirty work up north for awhile until he's taken care of Robb down south, but as soon as he's done dealing with Robb, Stannis and Renly, no way Balon doesn't go for the jugular with Balon. Yes, I know Tywin says you should be merciful to those who bend the knee, but after 2 rebellions in 10-11 years, Tywin would not be keen on showing mercy. Maybe he'd allow Ash's and Theon to live, that would show mercy, but given Tywin 's character, Balon would be dead. I don't think there's anything to make us think otherwise.Edit :spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I don't think there's anything to make us think otherwise. Other than Tywin's own words, you mean. Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Also, how does Balon think he's going to keep his people independent? He's on the wrong side of the continent to get supplies from Essos, no one in Westeros would want to trade with him. His only choice is pillaging Westeros for supplies, and as soon as the war is over there's no way the Lords would allow that to go unchecked. So even if Tywin allows him to keep his crown (yes, allows, Balon wouldn't keep that thing on his own very long) as soon as Balon attacks the Westerlands, Tywin would rain down death and destruction to the Iron Islands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Other than Tywin's own words, you mean. Right.The word of a man that's already killed off 2 entire families and threatened a third? They men? You think he's going to show Balon mercy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Lannister Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Maybe he wanted vengeance against the Starks? He'd get that a lot quicker if he actually had the manpower and wealth to fight the Starks though. If he'd at least seized Lannisport first then his chances would have improved. I mean, the Ironborn are a nuisance. They were a nuisance to Ned and a nuisance to Robb and a nuisance to Roose. The only successes they've achieved were capricious swerves (Theon taking Winterfell) that were never ordered in the first place. Their entire plan for the North amounted to petty harassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Their entire plan for the North amounted to petty harassment. So Robb turned away from near victory in the south because of "petty harassment" eh ? Man, he was stupider than I thought, even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Golden Wolf Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 So Robb turned away from near victory in the south because of "petty harassment" eh ? Man, he was stupider than I thought, even. He said their, meaning Balon's, entire plan. Theon went rogue when he decided to take Winterfell. if not for the taking, sacking, and killing of the Starks-in-Winterfell Robb would have let his lords like Lord Manderly and Lady Dustin take care of the Ironborn. Winterfell falling is why Robb needed to return North as the Ironborn went from a nuisance to a legitimate threat. If not for that, Bolton would have remained loyal and the Dreadfort's men would have been on the side of Rodrick not against him. of course Ramsey would be dead or rotting in the Winterfell dungeons right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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