College Basketball - Final Four and Beyond

[Ramsay B.]

Early spreads: Florida -6. Kentucky -2. I love being the underdog.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

In other news: in women's basketball, UNC (4 seed) beat SC (1 seed) to advance to the Elite Eight, where we will be facing Stanford.

[Rhom]

Also in other news: Cal's Mike Montgomery is retiring. It was rumored but now appears to be official.

How long was he there? Wasn't long was it?

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

Also in other news: Cal's Mike Montgomery is retiring. It was rumored but now appears to be official.

Cal has a coach? I even went to game and kept forgetting that they had a team by the way they were playing.

[davos]

Davos, everything you love and despise will be on display next Saturday!

May the best team win! :box:

(And clearly, by best team... I'm referring to the Wildcats!!!). ;)

First, congrats on UK making it. They played a hell of a game against Michigan.

And yes, the WI-UK match-up will be an intense one for me.

Honestly, its not so much a hatred of Kentucky itself (I didn't have a problem with them during the Patino or Smith years) but a hatred of the one and done system and what it has done to college basketball. No team has embraced it as deeply as Calipari and UK, seeming to every year field of a team built around freshmen who will likely be NBA lottery picks the following summer. The whole thing doesn't sit right with me. It makes the whole game much more transient. A number of top programs have brought in elite talent short term players. It would appear that generally the boost that players ability gives is balanced out by their lack of experience. In other words, a top program is going to be successful in a given year because the bulk of its team is long-term players who they have developed over a few years.

With KU, its a different story. It seems that when you can gather that much talent on one team, that the lack of experience is more than compensated for by the raw ability of the players. It might take them most of the year to figure out how to play together at the college level, but a group of that potential has a high probability of contending by the time march rolls around. I could go on about how other schools have to make investments in their players, building teams up over several years, having to balance upper class experience with bring underclassmen along to keep the program solid. And I could rant about how Kentucky doesn't have to make a huge commitment its short term players and the players don't have to make that big a commitment to UK. I could also go on about how the contrast couldn't be more reflected than in the coming WI-KU game.

It also bears mentioning that it makes for bad basketball. Watching the UK-MIch game, there were so many points that Kentucky simply made bad decisions that a more experienced team wouldn't. and most teams would not have survived those kind of repeated lapses. They can play flawed basketball and get away with it because of their talent level. Its honestly frustrating to watch the team make far more correct basketball decisions lose because of the talent differential.

These are reasons I loathe Kentucky. Maybe it isn't fair to them. After all, they are simply playing the game by the rules as they currently exist. The players are stuck spending a year in college rather they want to or not so why shouldn't they go somewhere a bunch of others in the same boat are going and try to win a national title? This is all true. Doesn't diminish my hatred for the situation, and by extension, my dislike of KU.

All that off my chest, there is still a game to play. Unlike the last 3 games, where commentators have blathered about how WI opponent that round had more significantly athletic ability than Bucky, when that simply not the case, KU really does have a huge edge in that department. They have come together nicely as a team, are playing extremely confident, aggressive ball, and seem to be able to put games away far better than one would expect from a team that starts 5 freshmen. With how KU is playing right how, I honestly have a hard time picking WI.

There are plenty of reasons, though, for me to keep to my prediction of a Florida-WI championship. First, of the teams WI has played in the tourney so far, UK most closely resembles Baylor, who WI destroyed. UK is significantly more talented and better couched than BU, but its still comforting to know that in that clash of styles, Bucky came out decisively on top. UK, though, is not likely to make the mistake of staying in a zone for long, if at all, given how effective WI shooters have proven to be against such a defense. Two, UK doesn't have a good answer for Kaminsky. He's hard to guard in the paint and unlike most big men can both put it on the floor and step out to the perimeter and rain down pain on WI opponents. From what I've seen of KU, their big men are not good perimeter defenders. He's a nightmare to figure out and I fully expect UK to have fits with him. Three, the only team that plays defense on the level that WI has been that Kentucky has seen is Florida and they've beaten KU 3 times this season. Four, WI can shoot the lights out from beyond the arc arc. 5. Same Dekker. Despite the MOP level tourney Kaminsky has been having, Dekker is WI's best player. He's yet to put up a big game this post-season and he's due.

In the end, though, this is going to be a game about tempo. A great deal has been made to Bucky opening it up more on the offensive end this season. Its true this is a much more explosive team than Bo Ryan has had since he came to Madison. They can't run with Kentucky though. Expect when a situation demands pushing the ball up the court or taking a shot in transition, they need to slow things down when they have the ball and limit UK's opportunities in transition. If they do the advantages WI has can be emphasized. Make UK grind out points, make they defend for 30 seconds every trip on the other end of the floor.. Wear them down mentally and emotionally. If they can do this, the Badgers can be playing Monday night. If UK can run when they want, its going to be a difficult game for me to watch.

[RedEyedGhost]

Cal has a coach? I even went to game and kept forgetting that they had a team by the way they were playing.

I guess Montgomery should have slapped a player on court again this season.

KU KU KU KU KU KU KU KU

:(

[davos]

:(

Oh, fuck. I've been a following college basketball closely for damn near half a century. Can't believe I made that bloody mistake. I've gone back and fixed it. My apologies to Kentucky fans.

[sperry]

I think Wisconsins absolutely miserable take the air out of the basketball offense is a much bigger cause for concern for college basketball than the one and does. College ball needs to go to the 24 second clock. It would help a sporty that is really hurting outside of the tournament.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

Because we need college basketball to become the NBA.

[RedEyedGhost]

I think 24 seconds is way too short for the college game, but I do think they need to lower it to 30 seconds. It's 30 seconds in the women's game FFS. I would also love it if the moved the three point line back to the NBA distance (or at least the FIBA distance).

[Ramsay B.]

I think 24 seconds is way too short for the college game, but I do think they need to lower it to 30 seconds. It's 30 seconds in the women's game FFS. I would also love it if the moved the three point line back to the NBA distance (or at least the FIBA distance).

I agree, 30 seconds would be perfect. Remember the days of the 45 second shot clock? That was awful.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

I watched clips of Phil Ford running the Four Corners offense. That was awful.

[sperry]

Marquette hired Steve Wocjiehwehraewrheski as head coach. Seems like an odd hire, since if he does well there he's almost certainly jumping for Dook when coach J retires.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

Marquette hired Steve Wocjiehwehraewrheski as head coach. Seems like an odd hire, since if he does well there he's almost certainly jumping for Dook when coach J retires.

They went after Cuonzo Martin first, which is kind of a head scratcher considering how he's underachieved at TN (I know, Sweet Sixteen run...but 3 weeks ago their fans were ready to run him out of town).

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I think Wisconsins absolutely miserable take the air out of the basketball offense is a much bigger cause for concern for college basketball than the one and does. College ball needs to go to the 24 second clock. It would help a sporty that is really hurting outside of the tournament.

Eh, I'd say they are both just examples of playing to your strengths. I suppose that the Wisconsin example has more slightly impact on the fan in terms of enjoying the game, but hey, whatever it takes to cut down the nets, ya know?

[sperry]

Eh, I'd say they are both just examples of playing to your strengths. I suppose that the Wisconsin example has more slightly impact on the fan in terms of enjoying the game, but hey, whatever it takes to cut down the nets, ya know?

Absolutely. It's an effective strategy for Wisconsin, and they'd be well advised to keep doing it so long as it's within the rules. And it's absolutely brutal to watch.

[davos]

I think Wisconsins absolutely miserable take the air out of the basketball offense is a much bigger cause for concern for college basketball than the one and does. College ball needs to go to the 24 second clock. It would help a sporty that is really hurting outside of the tournament.

Absolutely. It's an effective strategy for Wisconsin, and they'd be well advised to keep doing it so long as it's within the rules. And it's absolutely brutal to watch.

The beauty of the college game is that the rules allow for the use of a wide range of strategies and playing styles. It adds depth and complexity to the game. It also means that a game is not simply a measure of the talent levels of the respective teams. Frankly, I find the NBA dull. If they shortened the shot clock to try to increase scoring in the college game I would almost certainly lose interest.

You don't have to have each team putting 80 or 90 pts on the board to have a thrilling contest. The AZ-WI game was one of the most exciting in the tournament, partly because both teams put on a breath-taking defensive display. Every point was hard fought and earned, and meant more for it. If you came away from that contest without deep admiration for both teams, go watch rich guys run up and down the court in the pros while paying the barest of lip service to defense. That product already exists and the college game would be greatly diminished if they tried to duplicate it.

And specifically, in regards to WI, this is the most aggressive offensive team Bo Ryan has had in Madison. Yeah, they ground it out against AZ, and destroyed Baylor by completely taking away their game buthey ran with Oregon in the round of 32 and won doing it. I will readily admit that some of of the Badger teams in past years may have been a bit challenging for some to watch, but this team is markedly different from past editions.

[Rhom]

Ironically, most of the stats show that scoring drastically decreased when the clock was shortened from 45 to 35. :dunno:

I got a welcome surprise tonight. My SportsCenter app sent me a push notification to let me know that Murray State was playing a game in the CIT and to tune to CBS Sports Net to watch. Low and Behold I do in fact have that channel. Since I don't live in Murray, it's not the kind of news I get generally and didn't know they played tonight. Definitely bonus basketball for me.

I think the CIT and the CBI are probably good tournaments for the smaller schools that just can't make either of the big tournies. I'm sure most of the games are probably pretty entertaining.

[Rhom]

Hey Davos... here's a peek at what college basketball would look like if you had your way.

As a Wisconsin fan, you might want to be glad that the game stands as it currently does. :lol:

Edit: Here's something baffling. Graduation rates for all 68 tournament teams.

Good on ya Harvard, Villanova, Duke, and Kansas for graduating 100% of both white and black players.

The big WTF for me goes out to Wisconsin. You graduate 100% of white players but 0% of black players?!!?

I will readily admit that I do not know the methodology for computing these graduation rates. I know that for purposes of players leaving early for the draft, it asks if they were on pace to graduate. But no matter the way these stats are compiled, its at the very least shameful and embarrassing to see that sort of performance from the schools near the bottom of the list.

[sperry]

Hey Davos... here's a peek at what college basketball would look like if you had your way.

As a Wisconsin fan, you might want to be glad that the game stands as it currently does. :lol:

Edit: Here's something baffling. Graduation rates for all 68 tournament teams.

Good on ya Harvard, Villanova, Duke, and Kansas for graduating 100% of both white and black players.

The big WTF for me goes out to Wisconsin. You graduate 100% of white players but 0% of black players?!!?

I will readily admit that I do not know the methodology for computing these graduation rates. I know that for purposes of players leaving early for the draft, it asks if they were on pace to graduate. But no matter the way these stats are compiled, its at the very least shameful and embarrassing to see that sort of performance from the schools near the bottom of the list.

Honestly, I think these statistics are meaningless, and I think the focus should very much be on what kind of support the departments are putting in place for student athletes. I know for a fact that Oklahoma has had issues with graduating players in the past, but I also know that the academic support, including free tutors any time, access to special study rooms, and things of that nature are top notch for the athletes.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I also think the focus on athletes in this regard is disingenous, because at the large public schools that tend to excel at sports, the regular student body graduation rate isn't great. Athletes aren't the only ones who are sent to college ill-prepared, but unlike the athletes, regular students aren't given teh support system that athletes are.

Even at places like Harvard, students don't make it academically. Most of them will transfer somewhere less demanding and still graduate, but being unprepared for college is not unique to athletes, nor is it unique to mediocre public institutions, and I think a lot of this is lost in the rhetoric about student graduation rates. Yes, the 9% figure at UCONN is an absolute travesty, but for those sitting in the 50% range I think it's a lot of "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".