R+L =J, v. 77

[Ahai I'm Jon Snow]

Jon already has Longclaw why would GRRM give him more dragonsteel?

Blackfyre (if it shows up at all) will be (f)Aegon's

[Chebyshov]

Jon already has Longclaw why would GRRM give him more dragonsteel?

Blackfyre (if it shows up at all) will be (f)Aegon's

I just can't see the ancestral sword of House Mormont being the one Jon ends up with. Though I agree that Dark Sister is more likely for Jon than Blackfyre.

[Alia of the knife]

Dark Sister:

"Dark Sister is a famous Valyrian steel longsword, one of two ancestral swords of House Targaryen (the other being Blackfyre). Dark Sister was wielded by at least one woman during its history and may have been forged for a woman warrior originally as its slender blade is designed for a woman's hand. ^[1] The sword is last known to have been wielded by Brynden Rivers."

Note the parallel between this and "Needle," with Jon commissioning it's forging for Arya. (Very Targaryen of him). :cool4:

[Chebyshov]

I'd actually really like to have Jon somehow end up with Ice 2.0 (if it's possible to reforge).

[Ghost's Shadow]

It's pretty likely he already has 2 ancestral swords. Why does he need the Stark one on top of those, and for the moment he has Longclaw?

[Chebyshov]

It's just my own preference. I'd like Longclaw to go back to the Mormonts (it was theirs for 500 years). And assuming the 3 heads of the dragon stuff is true, give the other two Targs their ancestral swords, and let Jon have Ice.

[Ygrain]

Well, Jon used to dream of getting his father's ancestral blade... I guess the dream might come true, though not the way he wants.

[Ghost's Shadow]

I'd like to see Dany standing on a battlefield with Dark Sister drawn. She wouldn't last 3 seconds.

Blades are wasted on the non-fighters.

And I don't believe fAegon is going to make it that long. He will end when Dany comes.

[Alia of the knife]

Well, Jon used to dream of getting his father's ancestral blade... I guess the dream might come true, though not the way he wants.

Exactly so.

Just like Cersei and her prophesy, "you will marry the king, but not the prince."

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Dark Sister:

"Dark Sister is a famous Valyrian steel longsword, one of two ancestral swords of House Targaryen (the other being Blackfyre). Dark Sister was wielded by at least one woman during its history and may have been forged for a woman warrior originally as its slender blade is designed for a woman's hand. ^[1] The sword is last known to have been wielded by Brynden Rivers."

Note the parallel between this and "Needle," with Jon commissioning it's forging for Arya. (Very Targaryen of him). :cool4:

Interesting. If Dark Sister is really hidden in there, it might reinforce the idea Rhaegar was expecting a girl, not a boy. A Visenya, after the original owner of Dark Sister.

[Mithras]

And yet… old as he was, Cressen had never seen a comet half so bright, nor yet that color, that terrible color, the color of blood and flame and sunsets.

The comet was splendid and scary all at once. “The Red Sword,” the Bull named it; he claimed it looked like a sword, the blade still red-hot from the forge. When Arya squinted the right way she could see the sword too, only it wasn’t a new sword, it was Ice, her father’s greatsword, all ripply Valyrian steel, and the red was Lord Eddard’s blood on the blade after Ser Ilyn the King’s Justice had cut off his head. Yoren had made her look away when it happened, yet it seemed to her that the comet looked like Ice must have, after.

“I’ve heard servants calling it the Dragon’s Tail.”

“In the streets, they call it the Red Messenger,” Varys said. “They say it comes as a herald before a king, to warn of fire and blood to follow.”

“Blood and fire, boy, and nothing sweet.”

“It is the sword that slays the season,”

“Dragons,” she said, lifting her head and sniffing. She was near blind and could not see the comet, yet she claimed she could smell it. “It be dragons, boy,” she insisted.

“The Greatjon told Robb that the old gods have unfurled a red flag of vengeance for Ned. Edmure thinks it’s an omen of victory for Riverrun—he sees a fish with a long tail, in the Tully colors, red against blue.” She sighed. “I wish I had their faith. Crimson is a Lannister color.”

“That thing’s not crimson,” Ser Brynden said. “Nor Tully red, the mud red of the river. That’s blood up there, child, smeared across the sky.”

The Dothraki named the comet shierak qiya, the Bleeding Star.

I think Ned being beheaded by Ice had a magical consequence which triggered the Red Comet. If we bring together different accounts, the comet is Targaryen Red. Arya's account and Gendry calling it the Red Sword is very interesting. I think when Ice was joined with Ned's blood, the metal of Oathkeeper was created, which was announced by the Red Comet.

Almost every person in the books speculates about the meaning of the comet except Jon.

Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head. But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes, and she remembered what Lord Petyr had said to her, here in this very hall. “Life is not a song, sweetling,” he’d told her. “You may learn that one day to your sorrow.”

The smile that Lord Janos Slynt smiled then had all the sweetness of rancid butter. Until Jon said, “Edd, fetch me a block,” and unsheathed Longclaw.

There is a hero and he has a song. He is the prince that was promised, his is the song of ice and fire.

When she slid Oathkeeper from the ornate scabbard, Brienne’s breath caught in her throat. Black and red the ripples ran, deep within the steel. Valyrian steel, spell-forged. It was a sword fit for a hero. When she was small, her nurse had filled her ears with tales of valor, regaling her with the noble exploits of Ser Galladon of Morne, Florian the Fool, Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, and other champions. Each man bore a famous sword, and surely Oathkeeper belonged in their company, even if she herself did not.

Black and Red are the colors of Targaryens. Jon and Robb used to take the names of the legendary heroes while they were training together. Jon is foreshadowed by Sansa as a hero. I think Jon’s ultimate sword is Oathkeeper. He may have the scabbard reworked and get rid of the lions to have dragons with ruby eyes. I don’t think he would give a new name to the sword just like he kept the name of the Longclaw.

Tyrion put down Joffrey’s sword and took up the other. If not twins, the two were at least close cousins. This one was thicker and heavier, a half-inch wider and three inches longer, but they shared the same fine clean lines and the same distinctive color, the ripples of blood and night. Three fullers, deeply incised, ran down the second blade from hilt to point; the king’s sword had only two. Joff’s hilt was a good deal more ornate, the arms of its crossguard done as lions’ paws with ruby claws unsheathed, but both swords had grips of finely tooled red leather and gold lions’ heads for pommels.

Jon and Arya look like each other. If they were at the same age, they could have been like twins. But Jon is bigger than Arya, same as Oathkeeper is bigger than Widow's Wail. And they are close cousins. Arya already disarmed Joff and took his sword (Lion's Tooth). I think she will end up with the Widow's Wail and Jon will have Oathkeeper.

“The colors are strange,” he commented as he turned the blade in the sunlight. Most Valyrian steel was a grey so dark it looked almost black, as was true here as well. But blended into the folds was a red as deep as the grey. The two colors lapped over one another without ever touching, each ripple distinct, like waves of night and blood upon some steely shore. “How did you get this patterning? I’ve never seen anything like it.”

“Nor I, my lord,” said the armorer. “I confess, these colors were not what I intended, and I do not know that I could duplicate them. Your lord father had asked for the crimson of your House, and it was that color I set out to infuse into the metal. But Valyrian steel is stubborn. These old swords remember, it is said, and they do not change easily. I worked half a hundred spells and brightened the red time and time again, but always the color would darken, as if the blade was drinking the sun from it. And some folds would not take the red at all, as you can see.”

“A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame.”

Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Yup, Jon will end up with Longclaw, Blackfyre, Dark Sister, Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail. Boy's going to be needing a lot of hands. ;)

[Alia of the knife]

Interesting. If Dark Sister is really hidden in there, it might reinforce the idea Rhaegar was expecting a girl, not a boy. A Visenya, after the original owner of Dark Sister.

Could be, but since it has been primarily handled by males, (Brynden Rivers most notably), it could go either way.

I tend not to think Rhaegar deliberately intended to get Lyanna pregnant, (though I don't think he discounted it), but think Jon was the result and joy of his love for Lyanna and the fact he was living for perhaps the first time in his life.

Then prophesy was fulfilled.

Dark Sister AND Brynden Rivers point to two things:

~ Jons Targaryen heritage.

~ Jons legitimacy given Rivers love and loyalty to his TRUE born brother and king.

I speculate that BR sees faegon rising and he is making his loyalty known through his machinations.

[lareine]

A possible addition to the previously discussed topic of Pycelle's hypothetical betrayal of Prince Rhaegar:

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Asshai.com_Forum_Chat

[Why is Pycelle so loyal to the Lannisters?]

There´s backstory yet to be revealed, certainly, but if you asked Pycelle he would insist that he was acting in the best interests of the realm.

Interesting! Thanks for pointing that out Ygrain.

That was before ADwD came out... but I don't think we got much of Pycelle's backstory in ADwD. Curious. Although... some musings on his life after his death might be forthcoming.

I agree. I think that exchange between Pycelle and Tyrion strongly hints at this. It would be fascinating to know more. Like Tyrion asks, "where does it begin, Pycelle?"

[Jon Icefyre]

I've always been under the impression that Dark Sister was hidden by Bloodraven somehwere close to the wall, seeing as though he was the last confirmed owner of the sword, and there's no mention whatsoever, of it being taken from him when he was sentenced to the wall. As we all know, Jon is currently at the wall, so it seems a though it would make sense for Jon(most likely with help of Bloodraven) to find Dark Sister somehwere near the wall.....

[Alia of the knife]

I've always been under the impression that Dark Sister was hidden by Bloodraven somehwere close to the wall, seeing as though he was the last confirmed owner of the sword, and there's no mention whatsoever, of it being taken from him when he was sentenced to the wall. As we all know, Jon is currently at the wall, so it seems a though it would make sense for Jon(most likely with help of Bloodraven) to find Dark Sister somehwere near the wall.....

I agree with this as well, no matter how he gets it, I think he is intended to have it.

It may be that Bloodraven will tell him his heritage since he would have seen it play out.

[Jon Icefyre]

I agree with this as well, no matter how he gets it, I think he is intended to have it.

It may be that Bloodraven will tell him his heritage since he would have seen it play out.

:agree: Also from a writers standpoint, if GRRM is indeed going to have Jon embrace his Targaryen heritage and make it public knowledge to the rest of Westeros, then you gotta think having him wield a Targ sword is almost a necessity at this point. I only say this because Jon has none of the stereotypical Targ physical features, nor does he have any dragons at the moment lol, but GRRM's definitely gonna want him to have at least one thing that is a clear symbol of his Targayen heritage, for the rest of Westeros to see, and since Blackfyre was last known to be with the Golden Company, I'd say it's out of the running for Jon at least lol. So ya, I agree, to me it seems like Jon is intended to wield Dark Sister, which again, is most likely somewhere near the wall, which conveniently happens to be where Jon is currently located, hmmmmm. :cool4:

[Alia of the knife]

:agree: Also from a writers standpoint, if GRRM is indeed going to have Jon embrace his Targaryen heritage and make it public knowledge to the rest of Westeros, then you gotta think having him wield a Targ sword is almost a necessity at this point. I only say this because Jon has none of the stereotypical Targ physical features, nor does he have any dragons at the moment lol, but GRRM's definitely gonna want him to have at least one thing that is a clear symbol of his Targayen heritage, for the rest of Westeros to see, and since Blackfyre was last known to be with the Golden Company, I'd say it's out of the running for Jon at least lol. So ya, I agree, to me it seems like Jon is intended to wield Dark Sister, which again, is most likely somewhere near the wall, which conveniently happens to be where Jon is currently located, hmmmmm. :cool4:

True, and I think there is something very fluid and poetic in the similarity of Dark Sister and Needle, for most certainly it was a Targaryen who commissioned the forging of Dark Sister for a "dark" sister. :)

[Jon Icefyre]

True, and I think there is something very fluid and poetic in the similarity of Dark Sister and Needle, for most certainly it was a Targaryen who commissioned the forging of Dark Sister for a "dark" sister. :)

Very true! Hope Arya doesn't get too jealous!

[King Benjen II]

He's dead, Jim.

Beam him up, Scotty.