House of the Undying - Cast no Shadow

[The Dames do Moan]

So I have done a good amount of reading on the visions in the house of the Undying but never fully bought in to some of the idea's about the "cast no shadow" portion of the vision below.

a blue-eyed king with a red sword in his hand who cast no shadow;

So I believe like many that the above vision is referencing Stannis and his (f)Lightbringer. I never really bought into the fact that the cast no shadow was due to the shadow babies he created or variations of that.

Could it be that it is referencing Stannis and that he is no longer with Mel or Mel has given up on the idea he is AA? Jon references Mel being his "Red Shadow" a few times in ADWD and that she goes everywhere with him.

Apologies if that portion has been discussed relentlessly, at work right now and can't really search the threads.

[Lyse Stark]

So I have done a good amount of reading on the visions in the house of the Undying but never fully bought in to some of the idea's about the "cast no shadow" portion of the vision below.

a blue-eyed king with a red sword in his hand who cast no shadow;

So I believe like many that the above vision is referencing Stannis and his (f)Lightbringer. I never really bought into the fact that the cast no shadow was due to the shadow babies he created or variations of that.

Could it be that it is referencing Stannis and that he is no longer with Mel or Mel has given up on the idea he is AA? Jon references Mel being his "Red Shadow" a few times in ADWD and that she goes everywhere with him.

Apologies if that portion has been discussed relentlessly, at work right now and can't really search the threads.

I think you had the right idea. Stannis sacrificed his life essence to kill Renly and Ser Penrose, so the vision of the blue-eyed king with no shadow can foreshadow that he is not the real Azor Ahai.

[ghosts in winterfell]

Yeah this vision from the Slayer of Lies part of the prophecy is about Stannis not being AA. I actually forgot about the whole shadow baby thing too so I always assumed he cast no shadow because Lightbringer was fake.

[Dornish Whine]

I always thought the 'no more shadow babies' thing was a little too cute of an explanation for the vision. However, I do think that section is about Stannis.

I think Stannis' "light bringer" does cast shadows... the only thing it seems to do is glow prettily. So 'Casting Shadows' must mean something else here. This phrase has been used a few times in the books (apologies; no quotes at the moment) in reference to Jon Snow (by Mel) and in reference to Tyrion, to whom I think Aemon says something like "even a small man can cast a large Shadow." In these cases the phrase seems to mean the person's influence or lasting effect on the world.

.... But I cannot bring myself to believe that Stannis hasn't had, or will not have, a lasting effect on Westeros. Killing Renly and Stopping Mance are pretty big contributions to the shape of Westeros "today".

[Not Dead Just Broken]

The lack of shadow is describing Stannis not his fake sword. I've always thought it refers to his shadow being separated from himself to kill Renly.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I think it had to do with the events surrounding Stannis and his current position in Clash.

"Cast no shadow" was lightly referenced before by Varys and his "cast a long shadow" analogy and saying where power resides, saying that a small man could be able to cast a large shadow. First, we know Stannis is Robert's real heir, he is the King. We see in the scene that the guy with the wolf head has a crown, but it's the crown of the KotN and he's not called a King but "held a leg of lamb in one hand as a king might hold a scepter". Robb was not a real King, he proclaimed himself (or his men did) such. Then, we see Aerys, who was a King and then, Aegon who was meant to be a King. Stannis is referred as another King, a real one because Dany recognises him as such. And he cast no shadow because no one cared nor accept him as such, and he eventually loses in Blackwater, meaning, he didn't actually affected the situation and the fake King is still on the Throne.

[Leonardo]

I always thought the 'no more shadow babies' thing was a little too cute of an explanation for the vision. However, I do think that section is about Stannis.

I think Stannis' "light bringer" does cast shadows... the only thing it seems to do is glow prettily. So 'Casting Shadows' must mean something else here. This phrase has been used a few times in the books (apologies; no quotes at the moment) in reference to Jon Snow (by Mel) and in reference to Tyrion, to whom I think Aemon says something like "even a small man can cast a large Shadow." In these cases the phrase seems to mean the person's influence or lasting effect on the world.

.... But I cannot bring myself to believe that Stannis hasn't had, or will not have, a lasting effect on Westeros. Killing Renly and Stopping Mance are pretty big contributions to the shape of Westeros "today".

Don't forget Tyrion's first appearance, where he casts a huge shadow in front of Jon when rejoining the feast

[Ragnorak]

The lack of shadow is describing Stannis not his fake sword. I've always thought it refers to his shadow being separated from himself to kill Renly.

This was my take as well, at least at the more literal level. His shadow is absent because it is off killing Renly.

So I have done a good amount of reading on the visions in the house of the Undying but never fully bought in to some of the idea's about the "cast no shadow" portion of the vision below.

a blue-eyed king with a red sword in his hand who cast no shadow;

So I believe like many that the above vision is referencing Stannis and his (f)Lightbringer. I never really bought into the fact that the cast no shadow was due to the shadow babies he created or variations of that.

Could it be that it is referencing Stannis and that he is no longer with Mel or Mel has given up on the idea he is AA? Jon references Mel being his "Red Shadow" a few times in ADWD and that she goes everywhere with him.

Apologies if that portion has been discussed relentlessly, at work right now and can't really search the threads.

If you're looking for a deeper meaning or symbolism it is powerlessness. Varys says power is a mummer's trick a shadow on the wall. There's tons of shadows as power references and images throughout the books. Power is a projected shadow and Dany is foreseeing a Stannis who wears a crown, wields a magic sword, yet projects no power.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

I've never posted before, but I keep reading the passage from the House of the Undying about the blue eyed king who cast no shadow. I thought about Stannis & his murderous shadow, but then, doesn't that mean he doesn't only cast a shadow but has it do his bidding as well? I'm not very schooled on theories here, but I was wondering if anyone else thought that a blue eyed king might refer to the Night's Watch Commander who married the blue eyed other and took her for his queen? I mean they say the visions could be from the past, present or future right? The scarier thought I have, and I truly hope I am wrong about this one, is that Jon Snow becomes the blue eyed king if he comes back to life as an Other. Unclench my heart! Its just something that came to my mind and I would love everyone who knows this forum & the books better than I do to tell me just how wrong I am. I too remember how Tyrion's shadow was so very tall. Right after the vision of the blue eyed king, which I must admit, I thought might also be Gendry, there was the blue rose in the chink in the Wall. So Jon in symbolism came up with this vision. What a jumble Georgie threw at us! Love it!

[Nictarion]

It's definitely Stannis. There's no way Jon will come back as a WW. His story has too much left to address. Especially his parentage, which I believe GRRM has said Jon will learn of. I doubt WW Jon would really care who his parents were.

[Mithras]

It is Stannis. I think the red sword in his hand is not fLightbringer but a shadow dragon summoned by Mel. If the Lightbringer is a dragon (which is a good bet), then the fake Lightbringer should be a fake dragon, a creature of shadow that will probably have an icy breath to fight Dany's firebreathing dragons.

I wonder if Stannis sacrifices his remaining life force to summon that shadow dragon (hence casting no more shadows) and then being revived by Mel or the Others to ride that creature.

[Random BWB Member #1]

Up until my third re-read, I was convinced this vision concerned Stannis. But then I started to doubt it, because it was simply too easy. I just didn't believe GRRM would make it this clear when he never does so in his prophecies. Which is why now I want to examine the different meanings this prophecy could have by breaking it up in 3 parts and looking at each part on its own before tying it up.

What blue-eyed kings do we know?

- Robb Stark (dead)
- Euron Greyjoy (only 1 blue eye - plus eyepatch)

- Renly Baratheon (I think, could someone clarify? I believe in AGOT it said green, but I'd swear I read somewhere else he had blue eyes :dunno: Aaanyway: dead)

- Stannis Baratheon (dark blue eyes)

That's it, IIRC. Unless we count in potential kings:

- Bran Stark (potential KitN after Robb)

- Jon Snow (if you believe R+L=J, and of course there's also the possibility of him becoming KitN through Robb's will)

- Aegon Targaryen IV (described as dark blue, almost black AND light purple [by Tyrion and JonCon] I believe)

Got this info from the wiki. It doesn't tell the eye color of all characters, so for some, so there MIGHT be more. For example, I didn't find anything on Theon's or Victarion's eyes, although they're potential candidates for the Seastone Chair after Euron bites it...


That's not too many people. And if we look at the second part of this vision, we see that this king needs to have a red sword in his hand.
And how many of those do we know?

- The obvious: fLightbringer, wielded by Stanny-B (I lol'd when I accidentally read "Flightbringer")
- Oathkeeper (reforged from Ice by Tobho Mott, said to have a red glow/shine on the blade, currently in possession of Brienne the Beauty)

- Widow's Wail (same as Oathkeeper, location unknown, although possibly given to Loras Tyrell by Tommen before the siege of Dragonstone)

- Red Rain (in possession of House Drumm, possibly the former sword of House Reyne)

Again, I had some research problems, but the only other sword I could imagine is Heartsbane of House Tarly... Anybody know the colors of Blackfyre and Dark Sister?


So far so good, but we're far from done. Even if we COULD leave part 3 of the vision aside, there wouldn't be many plausible combinations of one of those blue eyed kings and these red swords... The way I see it, these might be possible:

- Obviously: Stannis and fLightbringer

- MAYBE: Ice reforged by Gendry (with Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail) and given to Jon Targaryen/Stark, either KitN or sitting the IT

- MAYBE: Euron Greyjoy takes Red Rain from House Drumm

And now to the part that kills it. The "who cast no shadow" part...

- Yeah, I have no idea who that could refer to besides Stannis and his shadow babies with Mel. Although I like Ragnorak's idea of a cast shadow symbolizing power, therefore Stannis having no shadow = no power.
- Mayhaps Euron, since he's into magic as well? But he seems to maintain a different style when it comes to magical powers, so this is too much of a stretch, even for me :D


Still, I have a very strong feeling that there's something to this part of the prophecy that we (or at least I) have not quite grasped...
Please, feel free to correct me or add to my lists since I'm sure I didn't get everything, because I used my memory (and the wiki) and don't have the books at hand.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Firespider, I can't tell you your wrong because we just don't know what's going to happen, but I can tell you that there is a fairly popular theory about Stannis becoming the Nightking, which is the character you referenced.

[sarah.jenice]

I know sometimes it's hard to accept a prophecy feeling too easy, but I think when it comes to Dany being called Slayer of Lies and her unveiling Stannis as not being AA, this makes the most sense as being Stannis.

I really like the interpretation of him casting no shadow referring to him having no power/influence.

[ummester]

I thought it was Stannis at first also - but what if it's an other, or the king of the Others, casting no shadow because he is in the land of always winter, where the sun don't shine.