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Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP402 Discussion

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- Is this the end of Tyrion the white washed? Here was saw a bit of Holier Than Thou and Better Than Thou attitude a la my Lord of Lannister just like his self-deceptive relationship with Shae in the novels.






Where? With Shae? Not really. I doubt that that'll be seen as anything other than him Nymeria-ing her-for her own good of course.It's not like the idea of him settling down with Sansa is even slightly credible.



Joff? Nah, he's just an idiot there and has always been.


Edited by Castel

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No one missed that scene - you could see that all the stones were still there.

Unless that was the reason they changed the stones to pale blue instead of deep purple, so we would miss the fact a stone was missing.

I am fairly certain that the last blue stone, closesest to sansas left was missing, my brother and me where watching like hawks.

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http://imgur.com/gallery/0EQr6

This link clearly shows missing stone in sansas necklace!!!!

Thanks for this. I was looking hard in the show at the part where QoT plucked the crystal, but the TV did not show it clearly. So the years old "mystery" is solved then. Read a GRRM interview and he (kinda) confirmed it's QoT as well.

On reflection, it's really funny how GRRM decided to reveal the plot to the reader through Littlefinger's conversation to Sansa in the books. But as readers, we did not really believe Littlefinger and it became a mystery to be speculated on for years instead. Hah. I'm glad I'm getting some closure on this issue! *tears up*

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http://imgur.com/gallery/0EQr6

This link clearly shows missing stone in sansas necklace!!!!

It really doesn't, it could easily be in the top left corner(her right) of her neckline hidden behind her robe + hair.

So who do we think spoke to Bran? I hope it was CH.

Edited by Barbossa

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Quick question. Is the blonde chap sitting beside Tyrion at the feast supposed to be Tommen or Lancel? I thought he might be too old for Tommen but have they aged him up?


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It really doesn't, it could easily be in the top left corner(her right) of her neckline hidden behind her robe + hair.

So who do we think spoke to Bran? I hope it was CH.

Watching again last night I could finally see the necklace retainers for that gem were clearly empty.

Missed that totally first viewing.

I am still confused about who put the Strangler stone in the cup , I swear it looks like both Marg or Sansa could have done from hand movements. Olenna because of looks and body language , but her deed is off screen.

I will note this.

Huffpost TV ... Interview:

Q:So you think that if we rewatch the episode, we’ll be able to catch who the murderer is?

Alan Taylor : No, if you watch it again you won’t catch it. But if you analyze it, and you know who did it and how they did it -- which is another whole thing -- it tracks. And that’s all I can say.

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So, I have finally managed to read pretty much the entire thread (still 10 pages left :)) and here are the things I liked about the episode, more or less in the order the scenes appeared in the show.



1. Ramsay/Reek/Bolton/Locke/Wanda/Miranda interaction. I am not a fan of the whole Dreadfort subplot. I care very little about book Theon and even less about show Theon-I don´t understand the whole Alfie!!!!!!!! thing. And I think that Ramsey is creepy as hell. He may be even worse than Jeoffrey. But I liked the Dreadfort scenes in this episode. The chase in the woods was sinister. So was Ramsey´s smile when he greeted Wanda (who was actually kind of sweet). The interaction between Ramsey and Locke was very good- two creepy guys, of course they would get alone very well. The scene where Ramsey shows his power over Reek was brilliantly written and acted. And I LOVED Reek´s face when he finds out Robb is dead. I loved this moment. Especially since we didn’t get to see Jon´s first reaction to this death, I love that we at least could see Reek´s reaction. And the fact that he did care about Robb. I also thought it did some more justice to Robb´s character. To see that he has been loved. Miss him; beautiful, sweet boy.


2. STANNIS.


Oh yes, I know that his fans are outraged and speak of his character´s assassination. But I like him in the show. Even more than in the books. The scenes in episode 2 were very nice. I liked the expression of Stannis´s face during the entire scene. You could actually see that he was not into the burning stuff. It is just another thing that he has to endure because, well, he is Stannis and he is stern as hell. Has to do whatever it takes to reach his objective. I liked the part where he defends Shireen. I liked the sarcasm of Davos- simply love him. And I think that Selyse is creepy as hell. I don´t like her in the books and even less in the show. So yes, Stannis was great this episode. I also find interesting how every time we move to Dragonstone everything is so dark and gloomy. And yes, Shireen rocks. Such a nice girl.



3. Jaime/Tyrion. I liked their dynamic. I liked that for all of Jaime´s bravado in front of Jeoffrey and Tywin last episode, he is aware that he can no longer fight and Tyrion is the only one in whom he trusts with this piece of information. I liked seeing how depressed Jaime is because of this situation; because he is so getting down until he reaches bottom in the next episode with the sept scene and then he will start to raise again. I´ve loved to see Tyrion being protective and supportive of Jaime. Because from now on we will see the exact opposite: Jaime defending Tyrion. Also, a nice parallel: Tyrion serves Jaime wine out of his own initiative. Minutes later Jeoffrey orders Tyrion to pours him wine.



4. Brienne/Jaime. I loved that she acknowledged the fact that he saved her twice. I loved her smile when she spoke of Jaime and their "adventures" as if it was a private joke they had. And I loved seeing Cercei getting jealous.



5. Loras/Jaime. I loved the interaction, although generally I want Jaime to be the one who gets the upper hand. But they have done such a terrible job with show Loras, that I liked seeing him get the final word this time. I also liked the fact that Jaime does not threaten Loras directly. he says that Cercei will be the one to murder Loras. Also, I found nice the reference to Cercei murdering any children she might have with Loras. Didn´t she do the same thing with her child with Robert? I don´t remember exactly.



6. OBERYN. He simply rocked.



7. Sansa. very nice acting. I felt so badly for her. And I cheered up when she managed to remain composed throughout the entire 5 kings scene.



8. Jaime/Jeoffrey. I liked that he was there when Jeoffrey died. I didn´t like very much the way the "rushing to his side" scene was filmed. But it think it was a nice touch that both parents were there when he died.



9. CERCEI. So in book character during the entire episode. Finally we get to the insane Cercei part. The fact that she prefers the food being given to the dogs, just so that Margaery doesn´t do what she wants- who cares about the starved people, right?. Her dialogue with Brienne. The fact that even in her pain for her son´s death, she is still overcome by hate and vanity, and jealousy. She turns immediately on Tyrion instead of just crying for her child. And she shouts to Jaime to stay away from Jeoffrey. Why was that? Such a bitch! I can’t stand her.

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I also liked the mention of wolfsbane as a possible name for Joffrey's sword. Wolfsbane is a poison mentioned in the books but its function is not explained. It is a real poison and I suspect we may have some uses of it in the books.


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Two things I liked the most in this episode were the dwarf performance and Joffrey's purple face when he started to choke.


Lady Olena really exposed to risk, when she put a poison in Joffrey's cup. Margery could also drink from it. I wonder if Sansa will be accused for poisoning, too.


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Quick question. Is the blonde chap sitting beside Tyrion at the feast supposed to be Tommen or Lancel? I thought he might be too old for Tommen but have they aged him up?

Tommen --new actor. He does look older than the last boy, but perhaps they felt it was better to have a slightly older boy to marry Marg (particularly since she is played by an actress who is 30--I think). I think he's meant to be 11-12 in the show.

Edited by nara

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Ha, Alan Taylor is building up the mystery of the poisoner while GRRM just spills the beans!

Also note this:

Huffpost:What would you say is the most challenging episode you’ve shot between the two you did in Season 3 and the four in this season?

Alan Taylor :"There’s no question, the most challenging episode was Episode 10 [of Season 4]. Not only because it’s by far the largest episode that they’ve ever made, but the tectonics and the story are the largest that have ever happened, and that’s not counting the x-number of battle sequences, x-number of gigantic digital effects sequences, and x-number of how many characters are alive and standing and even on the continent when it’s over. It’s a big one. The other thing I’ll say is that every time we went into to do a scene from Episode 10 it was harder, and there was a lot more conversation, a lot more growing pains because things are really beginning to change and it was in the writing. People were having to go places they’ve never gone and did things they’ve never done in extraordinary circumstances. It was really hard and really fun."

Since episode 9 is the battle for the Wall and apparently cost more than Blackwater, I don't know what this means.

Dave and Dan also mentioned that episode 10 was the most CGI-VFX thing they have ever done... which is so odd since I would think S4E9 would be that!

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Oh a rewatch.... it looks like Marg is sort of washing her hand. She also points out the goblet to Tyrion. Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet.


Edited by Fool of a Book

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Also note this:

Huffpost:What would you say is the most challenging episode you’ve shot between the two you did in Season 3 and the four in this season?

Alan Taylor :"There’s no question, the most challenging episode was Episode 10 [of Season 4]. Not only because it’s by far the largest episode that they’ve ever made, but the tectonics and the story are the largest that have ever happened, and that’s not counting the x-number of battle sequences, x-number of gigantic digital effects sequences, and x-number of how many characters are alive and standing and even on the continent when it’s over. It’s a big one. The other thing I’ll say is that every time we went into to do a scene from Episode 10 it was harder, and there was a lot more conversation, a lot more growing pains because things are really beginning to change and it was in the writing. People were having to go places they’ve never gone and did things they’ve never done in extraordinary circumstances. It was really hard and really fun."

Since episode 9 is the battle for the Wall and apparently cost more than Blackwater, I don't know what this means.

Dave and Dan also mentioned that episode 10 was the most CGI-VFX thing they have ever done... which is so odd since I would think S4E9 would be that!

what can happen in episode 10 that isso effects heavy? The stuff at The Vale?

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The Episode 10 stuff would have to deal with the caging of the dragons, so they may cause a bit of trouble in or around Meereen too. Also, I don't know how crazy they're going to go with Leaf and Bloodraven either, but perhaps it could have a bit to do with Bran's story - a vision maybe?


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Need to recheck this, but in S04E01, the scene where the QoT throws a neclace into the bushes (dismissing it as not nice enough) couldn't that have been her way of leaving it there for Dontos to retrieve it. That way noone could have seen Qot/Donto/Sansa together with the necklace...

I wondered about that too

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Maybe it's the combination of stuff that makes it so complicated: The dragons getting out of control, probably still some Wall stuff that just involves tons of people, Bran can get very CGI-intensive I guess, also depending if they maybe open up the "door to the past" as one could call it, a certain Lady will probably also show up and should need some serious make-up :D , Arya probably needs a ship, maybe the Eyrie needs to be in, too.


I can't actually think of ONE big event that would be so complicated, but I guess, getting everything in, with each of the stories being not so straight forward or some of them being CGI intensive or just a location that has not been used so far or not in a long time, might add up from the prodcution point of view


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