Twatbeards conspiracy Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I just had a complete crack pot thought, and rather than starting another thread since it does have to do with r+l=j maybe I can get a few thoughts. It's said that Starks are just wildings who were on the right side of the wall (both fm blood) wilding women are stolen away by worthy men and that's typically how their marriages I guess take place. What if the practice of saying vows in front of a weir wood isn't the only way of sealing a marriage in the north it's just something to placate the southrons since stealing a woman is probably more barbaric, and what if r really did kidnap l and by doing so inadvertently became in essence her husband as she recognized him as such? Completely out there but just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 With the current ToJ threads, something occured to me, but I think it's better to post it in here where it won't get lost and I don't have to explain the obvious :-): “Tommen is your king, not your squire. You are to fight for him and die for him, if need be.” “I never thought he’d hurt them.” Jaime’s sword was burning less brightly now. “I was with the king... “Killing the king,” said Ser Arthur. “Cutting his throat,” said Prince Lewyn. “The king you had sworn to die for,” said the White Bull. He had asked Lord Eddard if the Kingsguard were truly the finest knights in the Seven Kingdoms. “No longer,” he answered, “but once they were a marvel, a shining lesson to the world.”“Was there one who was best of all?”“The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne, who fought with a blade called Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star. They called him the Sword of the Morning, and he would have killed me but for Howland Reed.” Father had gotten sad then, and he would say no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I just had a complete crack pot thought, and rather than starting another thread since it does have to do with r+l=j maybe I can get a few thoughts. It's said that Starks are just wildings who were on the right side of the wall (both fm blood) wilding women are stolen away by worthy men and that's typically how their marriages I guess take place. What if the practice of saying vows in front of a weir wood isn't the only way of sealing a marriage in the north it's just something to placate the southrons since stealing a woman is probably more barbaric, and what if r really did kidnap l and by doing so inadvertently became in essence her husband as she recognized him as such? Completely out there but just a thought. Marriage has several aspects, it can be considered in social, religious and legal terms.The wildlings consider a kidnapping to be a marriage in a social sense, but they have no laws and so do not recognise the legal validity of that kind of marriage. If they do not consider kidnap-marriage as a legal marriage, why would people from south of the wall recognise it as a legal form of marriage? After all they have laws about marriage - and we have every indication that they only accept religious marriages as legal marriages.(I guess wildings would also sometimes choose religious marriage. I suspect wildlings would consider these more permanent that kidnap-marriage because although there is no legal bar to ending marriages they are probably reluctant to break marriage oaths sworn to the gods). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twatbeards conspiracy Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Marriage has several aspects, it can be considered in social, religious and legal terms.The wildlings consider a kidnapping to be a marriage in a social sense, but they have no laws and so do not recognise the legal validity of that kind of marriage. If they do not consider kidnap-marriage as a legal marriage, why would people from south of the wall recognise it as a legal form of marriage? After all they have laws about marriage - and we have every indication that they only accept religious marriages as legal marriages.(I guess wildings would also sometimes choose religious marriage. I suspect wildlings would consider these more permanent that kidnap-marriage because although there is no legal bar to ending marriages they are probably reluctant to break marriage oaths sworn to the gods).I disagree slightly, because if that were the case, when Jon and Stannis are discussing marriage to Val, Jon specifically states that whomever takes the offer best be prepared to scale a castle wall and steal her, also iirc Ygritte says something to the effect that if a man cannot fight off a woman and the men of the family he's weak and wouldn't make a good mate.Eta: I think it quantifies as something more than social marriage espeacially wrt what Jon said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I disagree slightly, because if that were the case, when Jon and Stannis are discussing marriage to Val, Jon specifically states that whomever takes the offer best be prepared to scale a castle wall and steal her, also iirc Ygritte says something to the effect that if a man cannot fight off a woman and the men of the family he's weak and wouldn't make a good mate.Eta: I think it quantifies as something more than social marriage espeacially wrt what Jon said. That's the political aspect, the wildlings won't respect a man who does not take a wife that way. But importantly Jon is not advocating they abandon the religious/legal aspect, stealing Val would need be in addition to a formal marriage for recognition south of the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twatbeards conspiracy Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 That's the political aspect, the wildlings won't respect a man who does not take a wife that way. But importantly Jon is not advocating they abandon the religious/legal aspect, stealing Val would need be in addition to a formal marriage for recognition south of the Wall. Point made, thx, like I initially said, total crackpot :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 "It should have been you [Jon]," she [Catelyn] said. "It should have been you," the Sea Snake shouted at Her Grace [Rhaenyra]. A little hint from TPaTQ about Jon's identity? Rhaenyra is his forebear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondancer Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 So I gather GRRM's extended tidbits from Rolling Stone interview haven't been posted? :) On the parentage of Jon Snow: Benioff and Weiss later said that during that meeting you asked them who they think Jon Snow's mother was, which is one of the earliest and seemingly one of the central mysteries in A Song of Ice and Fire. I did ask that at one point, just to see how closely they'd read the text. Did they get it right? They answered correctly. Some readers, I think, would also ask who Jon Snow's father truly is, even though Jon was always claimed to be Ned Stark's bastard son. [Martin smiles]On this I shall not speak. I shall maintain my enigmatic silence, until I get to it in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyCat Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Pfft. Confirmed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 So I gather GRRM's extended tidbits from Rolling Stone interview haven't been posted? :) That was what basically confirmed it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenFire3 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 In case there was still any doubt ;) ETA Btw, very nice catch on the TV series twin thread. I'm sure many of you will love it ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 In case there was still any doubt ;) ETA Btw, very nice catch on the TV series twin thread. I'm sure many of you will love it ;) There was ever any doubt? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenFire3 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 There was ever any doubt? :D I don't know about doubts. As for doubters, well... :leer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Well this fits in with the Rhaegar+Ashara=Jon theory that was recently floating around :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shk12344 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I don't know about doubts. As for doubters, well... :leer:For whatever reason, there is always going to be those who will prefer fan mad theories and storylines over truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondancer Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 THIS THREAD IS VERY SMUG. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 THIS THREAD IS VERY SMUG. :lol:this is one of the most sensible threads on the forum, has been for a very long time, smugness just comes along with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyron Stark Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 "It should have been you [Jon]," she [Catelyn] said. "It should have been you," the Sea Snake shouted at Her Grace [Rhaenyra]. A little hint from TPaTQ about Jon's identity? Rhaenyra is his forebear.Woah. GRRM doesn't do anything by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gash Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 assuming R + L = J is true, why would lyanna stay silent about her lover, happy to let everyone think he is a thieving raping monster? and possibly might have prevented a war in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 She must have dropped her cellphone somewhere during the kidnapping/elopement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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