[Book Spoilers] Jojen's Burning Hand

[Blazfemur]

Ok, being totally serial right now. totally serial.

Jojen's burning hand is, just liek the weirwood ont he hill, a vision.

If you notice, in these scenes and int he books, he's dying. Fever, burning up. Definitely a correlation there.

He wont die by fire, he wont die by dragonfire. He dies by fever, ironically enough, the closer they get to Bloodraven.

One could theorize the closer the get, the closer to death he gets.

But it's nothing mroe than a vision, this isn't a subject that needs 1100 posts and two threads. The fever in him, is burning him up, and getting stronger. He's heating up, and he knows the end is coming, he knows he's going to die.

That is all. What he saw is bittersweet, and he can probably predict the fever takes him at this point.

[gash]

dieing by fire is pretty spoliery imo. to me it clearly points to bran ending up on the side of the white walkers.

[Schokolade!]

Ok, being totally serial right now. totally serial.

Jojen's burning hand is, just liek the weirwood ont he hill, a vision.

If you notice, in these scenes and int he books, he's dying. Fever, burning up. Definitely a correlation there.

He wont die by fire, he wont die by dragonfire. He dies by fever, ironically enough, the closer they get to Bloodraven.

One could theorize the closer the get, the closer to death he gets.

But it's nothing mroe than a vision, this isn't a subject that needs 1100 posts and two threads. The fever in him, is burning him up, and getting stronger. He's heating up, and he knows the end is coming, he knows he's going to die.

That is all. What he saw is bittersweet, and he can probably predict the fever takes him at this point.

Lol we know it's a vision! But how do we know the vision is about him? I agree with you when you say Jojen will die of a fever it does look like this is what will kill him. Where I disagree is that the vision is of his own death because to me it came off as he was talking about Bran's journey and the role his companion will play rather then his/their death

[Blazfemur]

Lol we know it's a vision! But how do we know the vision is about him? I agree with you when you say Jojen will die of a fever it does look like this is what will kill him. Where I disagree is that the vision is of his own death because to me it came off as he was talking about Bran's journey and the role his companion will play rather then his/their death

"But how will we know,"

"Oh, you'll know" said Jojen, staring at his blatantly burning hand. He's blatantly telling them he's dying, in not so many words.

[Envie]

Lol we know it's a vision! But how do we know the vision is about him? I agree with you when you say Jojen will die of a fever it does look like this is what will kill him. Where I disagree is that the vision is of his own death because to me it came off as he was talking about Bran's journey and the role his companion will play rather then his/their death

This scene, though very well done on the actor's part was very misleading and vague. I think we all knew it was a vision of dying by fire but exactly who or what causes the fire (fever?) isn't really clear or if he's in fact talking about himself, Meera (who asks him) or all of them. It's purposely very vague. Color me annoyed that everything D&D writes from here going forward I am highly skeptical of because I don't know if they're drawing on real book facts or making it up for special effects and television drama!

[Onna Lewyys]

"But how will we know,"

"Oh, you'll know" said Jojen, staring at his blatantly burning hand. He's blatantly telling them he's dying, in not so many words.

Allow me to quote myself:

Jojen isn't referring to himself; he's referring to Bran's destiny.

"This...this isn't the end [of the journey]. Not for you [bran]. Not yet."

"How...will we know the end [of Bran's journey]?"

"You'll know." [fire]

He was talking about Bran.

[Shebara]

ok lets add another crackpot here: Jojen is a secret Targaryen and Melisandre will burn him for the power in the kings blood :devil:

[Blazfemur]

Allow me to quote myself:

He was talking about Bran.

while referencing his journey, yes, youre right. As Jojen's dying (by fever, symbolized here, as flame), i take it, using your exact quotes, he's telling bran he'll know when his journey comes to an end, for the blatant visions he's seeing. Clearly Bran isnt having those visions, and thus, his journey isnt ending.

It's more of a warning, to me at least.

[Blazfemur]

ok lets add another crackpot here: Jojen is a secret Targaryen and Melisandre will burn him for the power in the kings blood :devil:

ugh... not another one. Yes, youre exactly right, im sure of it. Everyone's a secret targ. Tyrion, Craster, Cersei/Jaime, and now even Jojen. Those targs get around, dont they?

[Shebara]

ugh... not another one. Yes, youre exactly right, im sure of it. Everyone's a secret targ. Tyrion, Craster, Cersei/Jaime, and now even Jojen. Those targs get around, dont they?

Yeyy beware of Targaryens...they are everywhere ...not to speak of their dragon eggs hidden everywhere...I look under my bed every night before I go to sleep!

[Blazfemur]

Yeyy beware of Targaryens...they are everywhere ...not to speak of their dragon eggs hidden everywhere...I look under my bed every night before I go to sleep!

The pastel dragon, comes but once a year. And leaves a basket full of dragons eggs for all the good boys and girls of westeros. The twist of it is, in their sleep, the pastel dragon touches their cheek, and their eyes turn a fiery red, and they become targaryen.

Unfortunately, this makes westeros a targaryen nation.

[Schokolade!]

This scene, though very well done on the actor's part was very misleading and vague. I think we all knew it was a vision of dying by fire but exactly who or what causes the fire (fever?) isn't really clear or if he's in fact talking about himself, Meera (who asks him) or all of them. It's purposely very vague. Color me annoyed that everything D&D writes from here going forward I am highly skeptical of because I don't know if they're drawing on real book facts or making it up for special effects and television drama!

I don't think their doing it only for shock value or at least I hope their not lol!

This reminds me of an interview with GRRM when he said that Bran's story is the hardest to write not only because of how young the character is but also because he's the most rooted in magic.

And since D&D know how the books will end I trust they're taking a hint from GRRM and are thinking really carefully when they are writing Bran's scenes to make all his magic stuff coherent by the end. Nothing would piss me off more then if they mess it up

[Pure Guava]

Chiming in here just to say I interpreted the burning hand as a metaphor, and I doubt very much Jojenpaste is a thing. Why wouldn't the weirwood paste give him more power than Jojen?? That's just silly.

[Blazfemur]

Chiming in here just to say I interpreted the burning hand as a metaphor, and I doubt very much Jojenpaste is a thing. Why wouldn't the weirwood paste give him more power than Jojen?? That's just silly.

jojenpaste doesnt exist. it never did. it's a fan thing, and in no way supports the story. jojen had power, but certainly not all powerful. definitely not even a fraction, to what power a weirwood could unlock. i wouldnt buy into jojenpaste theory.

[Schokolade!]

"But how will we know,"

"Oh, you'll know" said Jojen, staring at his blatantly burning hand. He's blatantly telling them he's dying, in not so many words.

Humm, I don't know I'm still skeptical, to me it didn't seem like Meera was asking about Jojen specifically but about the journey.

Jojen talking about his own death only works if he's not answering Meera's direct question.

I think the problem is that we've read the books... If we hadn't read them then we wouldn't know that Jojen had a vision about his own death and knows exactly when it'll happen.

So maybe because we've read the books we tend to assume this is what this vision was about but it seems odd to me that he wouldn't answer Meera's question at all.

[Aerys Vengeance]

My first thought of Jojen's burning hand was: "Does he predict the burning of the Tower of the Hand?" lol

[lostinwesteros]

What I understood from Jojen speech is that Bran will out live them all... With him constantly repeating that it isn't the end of Bran.

His hand burning was very ambiguous, it could mean many things.

The most plausible IMO is that Bran's journey will end with fire maybe he'll fight against Rhor'll or he'll wrag/mount a dragon (didn't the 3EC tell Bran in the books that he'll never walk again but he will fly?)

Or it could mean that Jojen will die and they'll have to burn him

And as you said maybe he'll bring back summer Bran seems to be linked to summer a lot. Old Nan keeps calling him a child of summer if I remember correctly because he's born in summer and has never known winter or something like that? He also takes an awful lot of time to name his direwolf and ends up naming him summer, his house saying is winter is coming, the last book will be call "A dream of summer"... Coincidence?

I think you're right on the mark here. Think also of the rest of the dream that Bran had (when the 3EC told Bran about flying). That whole dream chapter is one of the most significant in the series IMO (the Bran POV begins on p.160 in paperback version). Bran looks east, south, and across the Dothraki Sea, and what he sees moves increasingly beyond 'current events' until he finally looks north, beyond the wall. "North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep, into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks. 'Now you know,' the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. 'Now you know why you must live.' ". When Bran didn't understand and asked why, the crow had replied, 'Because winter is coming.' When Bran then looked at the crow, he saw it had 3 eyes, "and the third eye was full of a terrible knowledge." Etc, etc. and it was just after this dream that Bran woke up and immediately knew his direwolf's name was Summer.

Kudos, great post!

Yeah, Bran will be there right up to the end.

[CandleWisps]

ugh... not another one. Yes, youre exactly right, im sure of it. Everyone's a secret targ. Tyrion, Craster, Cersei/Jaime, and now even Jojen. Those targs get around, dont they?

Woah, woah, woah, this alters the whole game. This means that Hot Pies claim to the Throne is legitimate :blink:

Also the fact it could represent Jojen's fever didn't even cross my mind, glad you brought it up

[Schokolade!]

Chiming in here just to say I interpreted the burning hand as a metaphor, and I doubt very much Jojenpaste is a thing. Why wouldn't the weirwood paste give him more power than Jojen?? That's just silly.

jojenpaste doesnt exist. it never did. it's a fan thing, and in no way supports the story. jojen had power, but certainly not all powerful. definitely not even a fraction, to what power a weirwood could unlock. i wouldnt buy into jojenpaste theory.

Finally!!! Someone else thinks Jojen's paste is bullshit!! I don't know why most fans I've ever talked to before always acted like this THEORY is book canon!

[Blazfemur]

Woah, woah, woah, this alters the whole game. This means that Hot Pies claim to the Throne is legitimate :blink:

Also the fact it could represent Jojen's fever didn't even cross my mind, glad you brought it up

He's constantly sick, his skin is sweaty, he even seizured two episodes ago. He's dying. In the books, it's by fever. Fever is excessive heat, which was interpreted as fire. I may be wrong, but thats what I got from it. He knows hes dying, he can openly see it in his visions. Also, excessive fever can cause hallucinations. Maybe it wasnt even his greensight.

But it was, and it was his subconscious saying, "Ok, your time is running out, this is whats going to kill you" i.e. fever and burning up.