[Book Spoilers] Jojen's Burning Hand

[evita mgfs]

In the television series, Jojen speaks to the novels when he says to Bran that NOONE - no other greenseer - has ever skinchanged another human as does Bran with Hodor. Bran's ability to do so is a gift unique to his powers. Case in point: V6S's failed attempt to skinchange Thistle.

[Blazfemur]

In the television series, Jojen speaks to the novels when he says to Bran that NOONE - no other greenseer - has ever skinchanged another human as does Bran with Hodor. Bran's ability to do so is a gift unique to his powers. Case in point: V6S's failed attempt to skinchange Thistle.

and why is that? How did he fail? She fought him internally, they struggled, and if i recall correctly, she died.

perhaps like the other corpses strewn about the cave.

im hellbent and determined on this, it all adds up, and im calling out the twist at the end of next season ;)

[StrollofShame]

Jojenpaste is not a thing. That was the first thing i thought. It looks like Jojen dies of illness and gets burned as to not become a wight. Hes seeing his own death.

[The Dragon has three heads]

"You're not here" was IMO the most interesting part.

Added to the "the raven is you" could mean a lot about bran being time lord bran.

[StrollofShame]

What Florina said about Jojenpaste not being a thing, & the boy seeing only his own death & burning--absolutely!

[Bowen]

Could be he ends up a wight for sure and is burned.

[Blazfemur]

"You're not here" was IMO the most interesting part.

Added to the "the raven is you" could mean a lot about bran being time lord bran.

Almost chilling, how that line, foreshadows my theory.

[Moon-Pale Maiden]

This. This. Jojen isn't referring to himself; he's referring to Bran's destiny.

"This...this isn't the end [of the journey]. Not for you [bran]. Not yet."

"How...will we know the end [of Bran's journey]?"

"You'll know." [fire]

Bran is going to play a big role in the War for the Dawn, which will involve a lot of fire.

Perhaps this refers to what happens when Bran and co make it to the cave and battle all the wights. The survive that battle because of fire. If we take that to mean the end of Bran's journey, then his journey ends with fire - the fire in the great battle against the wights to get to the 3 eyed crow/raven. Maybe?

[evita mgfs]

LORD BLAZEMUR:

and why is that? How did he fail? She fought him internally, they struggled, and if i recall correctly, she died.

perhaps like the other corpses strewn about the cave.

im hellbent and determined on this, it all adds up, and im calling out the twist at the end of next season ;)

I am not discounting your premise - one greenseer skinchanging with another- may or may not influence the "take-over". My crazy, crackpot theory revolved around Jon's death and BR. So much had been made on threads about how if Jon's body dies, this and that force will reanimate him - but that in order for this magic to work, there is a cost. Only death pays for life. The consensus for the life paying for death is Ghost - everyone seems to want Ghost to die! Well, I will not go into my entire theory about Ghost, but it does not involve his death. No - I toyed with the idea that BR would "give" what life he has left as a gift so that Jon may live.

But that is one of my silly ideas - I am sharing it so that you understand that I seldom ever "rain" on someone else's ideas. I am merely hoping that BR and the Children do not mean to harm Bran.

[Blazfemur]

I am not discounting your premise - one greenseer skinchanging with another- may or may not influence the "take-over". My crazy, crackpot theory revolved around Jon's death and BR. So much had been made on threads about how if Jon's body dies, this and that force will reanimate him - but that in order for this magic to work, there is a cost. Only death pays for life. The consensus for the life paying for death is Ghost - everyone seems to want Ghost to die! Well, I will not go into my entire theory about Ghost, but it does not involve his death. No - I toyed with the idea that BR would "give" what life he has left as a gift so that Jon may live.

But that is one of my silly ideas - I am sharing it so that you understand that I seldom ever "rain" on someone else's ideas. I am merely hoping that BR and the Children do not mean to harm Bran.

It's all good, no offense given, and none taken.

Now this is full crack pottery, then again, i do speak only in blasphemies:

Jon dies, out of respect, they lay him out, his longclaw in his arms as they often do.

Melisandre, sacrifices Craster's baby, not the king-beyond-the-wall's baby (since sam and gilly took the wrong baby)

Since that baby belonged to the Others, there is some, Other, intervention in the sacrifice.

Jon opens his eyes, his glowing, blue eyes.

Jon sits up, longclaw in his gloved hands

Jon stabs Melisandre with Longclaw

Based on Melisandre's element, warm body, fiery personality, and jons opposite, the blade spark during the stab, and takes flame, with her blood.

Jon, The Other, is reborn, with a flaming sword...

Now thats NEVER going to happen. I dont support that theory at all, its openly crackpot. But, it makes sense.

[CandleWisps]

It's all good, no offense given, and none taken.

Now this is full crack pottery, then again, i do speak only in blasphemies:

Jon dies, out of respect, they lay him out, his longclaw in his arms as they often do.

Melisandre, sacrifices Craster's baby, not the king-beyond-the-wall's baby (since sam and gilly took the wrong baby)

Since that baby belonged to the Others, there is some, Other, intervention in the sacrifice.

Jon opens his eyes, his glowing, blue eyes.

Jon sits up, longclaw in his gloved hands

Jon stabs Melisandre with Longclaw

Based on Melisandre's element, warm body, fiery personality, and jons opposite, the blade spark during the stab, and takes flame, with her blood.

Jon, The Other, is reborn, with a flaming sword...

Now thats NEVER going to happen. I dont support that theory at all, its openly crackpot. But, it makes sense.

Jon for Great Other 2014 :commie:

[binga]

Fire could symbolize or suggest practically anything depending on how you want to interpret it.

[Toft]

We may not have to wait for too long to find out what this burning hand symbolises.

The show has continually deferred things until slightly before they matter, whereas the books have seeds sown for decades.

Where do you think this series will end when it comes to Bran's storyline? Do you think they will leave his journey... "incomplete"? We might find out a bit more about Jojen's fate sooner than we think, if the burning hand references an event due to take place in this series.

In my view, Jojen is a sacrificial character who understands precisely the role he must play, and the last Bran chapter is so sinister that it would be absurd to deny the possibility of awful things going on in the background.

I must say, the way the Hodor warging was portrayed was perfect. Then there was a line along the lines of "Who could do such a thing to a man?" - well, Bran did. So judge and read.

Anyway, I'm really enjoying the TV series. It is fantastic.

[CandleWisps]

We may not have to wait for too long to find out what this burning hand symbolises.

The show has continually deferred things until slightly before they matter, whereas the books have seeds sown for decades.

Where do you think this series will end when it comes to Bran's storyline? Do you think they will leave his journey... "incomplete"? We might find out a bit more about Jojen's fate sooner than we think, if the burning hand references an event due to take place in this series.

In my view, Jojen is a sacrificial character who understands precisely the role he must play, and the last Bran chapter is so sinister that it would be absurd to deny the possibility of awful things going on in the background.

I must say, the way the Hodor warging was portrayed was perfect. Then there was a line along the lines of "Who could do such a thing to a man?" - well, Bran did. So judge and read.

Anyway, I'm really enjoying the TV series. It is fantastic.

Just curious, but when you say series are you referring to the season? Cuz I know some places other than the US address seasons as series, so I was wondering if that's what you meant because the context would make much more sense

[Toft]

Just curious, but when you say series are you referring to the season? Cuz I know some places other than the US address seasons as series, so I was wondering if that's what you meant because the context would make much more sense

Oh sorry, yes, I meant TV season. I'm not American. But that might also just have been a bit of a sloppy use of English ;-)

[CandleWisps]

Oh sorry, yes, I meant TV season. I'm not American. But that might also have been a bit of a sloppy use of English ;-)

Haha no need to apologize, I was just clarifying that I understood your question correctly :) And to answer your question, I hope we don't find out too soon. Brodie-Sangster is a great actor, and I would hate to see him go so quickly. But if he doesn't end up serving any other purpose than to get Bran to Bloodraven and ultimately sacrifice himself (or die of fever), it would make sense that they kill him off by the end of the season, assuming they're gonna be dropping more Unsullied things on us. Bran's last chapter was indeed sinister and doesn't bode well. Personally, I always hoped Jojen would have a bit more of a role to play, he is such a fascinating character. I would say he's not gonna be killed off, but at this point its really impossible to tell :dunno:

[Toft]

Haha no need to apologize, I was just clarifying that I understood your question correctly :) And to answer your question, I hope we don't find out too soon. Brodie-Sangster is a great actor, and I would hate to see him go so quickly. But if he doesn't end up serving any other purpose than to get Bran to Bloodraven and ultimately sacrifice himself (or die of fever), it would make sense that they kill him off by the end of the season, assuming they're gonna be dropping more Unsullied things on us. Bran's last chapter was indeed sinister and doesn't bode well. Personally, I always hoped Jojen would have a bit more of a role to play, he is such a fascinating character. I would say he's not gonna be killed off, but at this point its really impossible to tell :dunno:

It's precisely the ambiguity of it all that I'm enjoying. Awaiting the gusts of The Winds of Winter may take years - but we have hints of what may come and can still enjoy this world and speculate on where this is all leading right now. I posted a few days ago about whether I would choose to ignore the TV series in favour of the books. But I just can't. The imagination behind the two is the same. I've decided now. I am going to continue with the TV series even if it goes further than the books and I don't for one instant think it will diminish the quality of the prose I enjoy when the books are completed.

To return to the topic of the thread, the burning hand is mysterious but it's wrong to use it as a means to discredit inferences concerning Jojen's blood. Blood magic. Scythes in the sky. Characters mumbling about death not being today but not managing to mumble such words recently. Jojen awaits a hideous fate and he knows it.

Also, I think the idea of Bran becoming a tree is quite beautiful. I'd happily be a tree if it meant I could see the world as it was and as it will be, and also get to warg a dragon.

[Cold Crashing Waves]

Would have been funny if instead of a burning hand Jojen just saw a bowl of oatmeal.

[Toft]

Would have been funny if instead of a burning hand Jojen just saw a bowl of oatmeal.

There's a "Report" button which I could use to signal that this remark is distasteful ;-) While being drained of blood to channel some power into a cripple, of course, wouldn't be at all so.

[When Harry met Sansa]

I posted in the Episode thread that I thought this might mean that Jojen is killed by Mel, either by sacrificing himself for Bran's cause or by being captured and sacrificed by Mel. We know that Mel has seen Bran, BR and co. in her flames and thinks that they represent servants of the Great Other.

However, the more I think about it the more it makes sense that regardless of how Jojen dies, and illness is certainly extremely likely, he sees his hand burning because his body will be burned so as to not become a wight. I think that makes more sense than anything else. I'm still not even 100% convinced Dany ever makes it beyond the Wall so I can't get on board the dragon theory, though it does have some merit.