[Book Spoilers] The Duel

[AIex]

Does anyone else think that Oberyns death was a bit too extreme? I'm ok with some of the gore, I remember Gregor gouging one of his eyes out while crushing his head with the other one in the books, so that's ok I guess, but it was the screaming and that exploding head which almost made me vomit if I'm honest.

The battle itself was really cool imo, but they shouldve had Oberyn stay quiet during his death.. wouldve been pretty awesome if had they changed the plot a bit and made him say something like "have fun dying" right before he dies... it felt so bad watching a badass like Oberyn scream like a little girl, I mean of course that shit hurts and everyone would scream, but I'm sure a little lack of realism wouldnt have hurt anyone at that point.

Second thing I didnt like was the head explosion... its definitely possible for a head to explode like that, but not the way Gregor killed him. It would certainly explode like that if Gregor punched him with all of his strength or really slammed his head onto the ground, but as far as I can tell he just squashed his head gradually.. you can literally see his fingers slowly sinking in. The skull shouldve just broken, not exploded like a damn firecracker.

Pretty weird how everyone only started screaming after Oberyns head exploded... I'd be screaming like a baby if my husband's eyes were being gouged out, but overall I really liked the fight. Don't think I'll watch it entirely again though because it makes me wanna cry how this brilliant scene just turns into the most disgusting and brutal death within a matter of seconds... Oberyn is just such an amazing character.

One more thing though: I really hope we'll get to see atleast one scene of Gregor slowly dying because of the poison and screaming loud enough for the whole red keep to hear it.. that would be pretty satisfying.

[of man and wolf]

Jaime does say that there are probably 3 people in the 7 kingdoms who could beat him in a fight...

assuming one is Barristan

at that time when he said it, there was a lot of hype about Loras Tyrell, so it is possible he's the second

no idea who the third could have been...i would like to say Oberyn, but Jaime confessed to having no idea of his skill...

The Mountain or the Hound. I doubt he even thought of Oberyn, and aside from that, acting cocky like Oberyn does against a smarter and quicker fighter in Jamie would get him dealt with rather easily anyway.

[DaveyJoe]

Does anyone else think that Oberyns death was a bit too extreme? I'm ok with some of the gore, I remember Gregor gouging one of his eyes out while crushing his head with the other one in the books, so that's ok I guess, but it was the screaming and that exploding head which almost made me vomit if I'm honest.

Nope, violence should be off putting. When you water it down and take away the severity is when it becomes irresponsible.

[trgryn-strk-lnstr-mrtell]

The Mountain or the Hound. I doubt he even thought of Oberyn, and aside from that, acting cocky like Oberyn does against a smarter and quicker fighter in Jamie would get him dealt with rather easily anyway.

i cant really say....Jaime's pretty cocky too if you remember from his fight with Ned...as for speed, again Oberyn's pretty fast, especially at dodging..

both of them with swords, jaime might have the drop on Oberyn...but jaime's sword vs. vipers spear...Oberyn might have had the better of Jaime since he's more patient than Jaime

[sj4iy]

Nope, violence should be off putting. When you water it down and take away the severity is when it becomes irresponsible.

Agreed. Also, I don't think it was gore for the sake of gore like we see in horror films...this was a character we cared about fighting on behalf of another character we care about.

Admittedly, I was queasy afterwards and would never wish to watch that scene again, but I don't think it was done in bad taste or anything like that. And it will be the start of a massive change in the entire story, so I'm fine with it.

[Ser Not Appearing]

I've rewatched the duel once now. Satisfying overall.

Only major gripe is aesthetic - didn't like how absolutely still the Mountain was, then he's full of life and his voice is strong, then he rolled over and is so still again. Effect was something of a brief full resurrection instead of pained, labored and powerful last gasp/grasp.

Minor gripes to the way Oberyn was knocked down a few times, the dramatic fall before he was crushed and the curled-hands-clutching-at-face, full-on 70's horror movie scream from his lady as his head was crushed. Again, mostly aesthetics.

The tone and overall fight was ok, I didn't mind the editing and was surprisingly OK with the twirly flamboyance of Oberyn. I give their portrayal a "good enough" grade.

Much of the rest of the episode was blah.

[AIex]

Agreed. Also, I don't think it was gore for the sake of gore like we see in horror films...this was a character we cared about fighting on behalf of another character we care about.

Admittedly, I was queasy afterwards and would never wish to watch that scene again, but I don't think it was done in bad taste or anything like that. And it will be the start of a massive change in the entire story, so I'm fine with it.

I agree.

I really hope they'll stay close to the books when it comes to Cersei's and Jaime's chapters during AffC and AdwD and include that one scene of Arienne and Doran though. Fighting, gore and all that stuff is cool, but those really deep dialogues are just great, in the books and the show. As of now, Oberyn and Tyrion talking in the dungeon is probably my favourite moment in this season because it is so emotional and brilliantly done by the actors.

[ALAPHD]

I really wanted him to scream EELLLIIAAAA when he went for the big stabbing leap.

[Follmann]

I really wanted him to scream EELLLIIAAAA when he went for the big stabbing leap.

This. I really liked the visuals on that scene, though. Also, I missed the "If you die before you say her name, ser, I will hunt you through all seven hells" line a lot.

[Onion Seaworth]

So some people are disappointed....what a shock, :bang:

I think it was done atleast 10 times better in the show then the book...and I have read the book before this season even started

Why?

1. The fight

It was awesome and REALISTIC believe it or not, the reason it was ''short'' was because you cant fight someone as large as Gregor or someone as fast as Oberyn without getting tired, every time Oberyn dodged he must have really gotten tired, and The mountain swinging his sword would have been one thing if he hit but let me tell you missing a target drains more stamina then actually hitting your target. I have been in fights since a young age and I know that the majority of fights lasts about 2-4 minutes in real life, it should be even shorter with weapons...but I dont fight with weapons. the reason is simply that during bar fights, you just wail on eachother, during MMA and Boxing you got rules to follow and you fight someone equal to you. But the fight between Oberyn and the mountain are not between Equals, Lightweight champion vs Heavyweight Champion.

2. More brutality. The book disappointed here when I re read it just for this purpose. Gregor Grabs him and punches him a few times untill his head is crushed. (which you don't get detail on FTM. It just said that after Gregor hit Oberyn Tyrion throws up, and Ellaria screams. The show made this so much better, up cloes disturbing footage of oberyns head getting crushed, it made me wish for more like this in Mortal Kombats Fatalities

3. The scream, I am impervious to gore pretty much, During Ramsays torture scenes on Theon I found myself smiling, during the Flaying on the Ironborn I smiled, Why cause I think it's cool. But this head crushing was beyond words... I went from :D to D: in a few seconds the gore, i could handle, but Oberyns scream made this scene so much more powerful then the book did. and guess what, If you got eye gouged by a man who is the 2nd strongest man in the world and weighs more then 5 of you, and whos hands are as big as your face, your head would be a fucking paste, within seconds, and guess what it hurts, and guess what, you would cry and piss yourself and scream like a girl.

It's realistic as fuck for that matter, Now In the book The Mountain is Bigger and Stronger then Thor is no? so Guess what, the pressure from his weight and strength woulf pop your head like a zit, not even that but Thor could probably do the same.

So please get of your horses,

(complaints i have heard from random people)

the camera angles, i agree with, it skipped to much between cameras, but they did not break the 180 rule, so i can live with it.

The ineffective armor, well... sure... But it did still show that he could not pierce his armor unless oberyn used his full weight on his spear.

The many cuts: -.- really.... The many cuts is there for a reason, it's there so people will think Oberyn will prevail, and defeat the mountain with ease.

The mountain Surviving the spear thrust: It happens EXACTLY LIKE THAT IN THE BOOKS he gets pinned to the ground.

Give credit where credit is due, I know most of you see the book as a bible, but seriously, I re read and rewatched this enough times to know that this time the show triumphed.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion... but some of you seem to bash this for something that was unreallistic just to find flaws.

And you should not care about realism in a show with magic and dragons...and even if you do THIS WAS REALISTIC, if you are comparing it to what happens in the books and what would happen in actual real life.

Image 1 (Book Cover)

http://i.gyazo.com/d209e8b9a3f5c519b54a6efd43890a61.png

Image 2 (Book Backside)

http://i.gyazo.com/225215ff0ad46b8fd99a8c7b2a391bbd.png

This is my proof I am not some Show troll who simply read the fight chapter, here to bash you.

If you can't read the Title it's because I am swedish and in swedish the book is titled Svärdets makt (translates to the might of the sword even though the actual title is a storm of swords)

I have also read the Book in english online, but it's harder to follow when i must both translate and read, which makes it harder to get caught up in the book.

[Relic]

Oh wow you actually read the book before the season? Crrraaaazy.

[MyLittleFinger]

So some people are disappointed....what a shock, :bang:

I think it was done atleast 10 times better in the show then the book...and I have read the book before this season even started

Why?

1. The fight

It was awesome and REALISTIC believe it or not, the reason it was ''short'' was because you cant fight someone as large as Gregor or someone as fast as Oberyn without getting tired, every time Oberyn dodged he must have really gotten tired, and The mountain swinging his sword would have been one thing if he hit but let me tell you missing a target drains more stamina then actually hitting your target. I have been in fights since a young age and I know that the majority of fights lasts about 2-4 minutes in real life, it should be even shorter with weapons...but I dont fight with weapons. the reason is simply that during bar fights, you just wail on eachother, during MMA and Boxing you got rules to follow and you fight someone equal to you. But the fight between Oberyn and the mountain are not between Equals, Lightweight champion vs Heavyweight Champion.

2. More brutality. The book disappointed here when I re read it just for this purpose. Gregor Grabs him and punches him a few times untill his head is crushed. (which you don't get detail on FTM. It just said that after Gregor hit Oberyn Tyrion throws up, and Ellaria screams. The show made this so much better, up cloes disturbing footage of oberyns head getting crushed, it made me wish for more like this in Mortal Kombats Fatalities

3. The scream, I am impervious to gore pretty much, During Ramsays torture scenes on Theon I found myself smiling, during the Flaying on the Ironborn I smiled, Why cause I think it's cool. But this head crushing was beyond words... I went from :D to D: in a few seconds the gore, i could handle, but Oberyns scream made this scene so much more powerful then the book did. and guess what, If you got eye gouged by a man who is the 2nd strongest man in the world and weighs more then 5 of you, and whos hands are as big as your face, your head would be a fucking paste, within seconds, and guess what it hurts, and guess what, you would cry and piss yourself and scream like a girl.

It's realistic as fuck for that matter, Now In the book The Mountain is Bigger and Stronger then Thor is no? so Guess what, the pressure from his weight and strength woulf pop your head like a zit, not even that but Thor could probably do the same.

So please get of your horses,

(complaints i have heard from random people)

the camera angles, i agree with, it skipped to much between cameras, but they did not break the 180 rule, so i can live with it.

The ineffective armor, well... sure... But it did still show that he could not pierce his armor unless oberyn used his full weight on his spear.

The many cuts: -.- really.... The many cuts is there for a reason, it's there so people will think Oberyn will prevail, and defeat the mountain with ease.

The mountain Surviving the spear thrust: It happens EXACTLY LIKE THAT IN THE BOOKS he gets pinned to the ground.

Give credit where credit is due, I know most of you see the book as a bible, but seriously, I re read and rewatched this enough times to know that this time the show triumphed.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion... but some of you seem to bash this for something that was unreallistic just to find flaws.

And you should not care about realism in a show with magic and dragons...and even if you do THIS WAS REALISTIC, if you are comparing it to what happens in the books and what would happen in actual real life.

Image 1 (Book Cover)

http://i.gyazo.com/d209e8b9a3f5c519b54a6efd43890a61.png

Image 2 (Book Backside)

http://i.gyazo.com/225215ff0ad46b8fd99a8c7b2a391bbd.png

This is my proof I am not some Show troll who simply read the fight chapter, here to bash you.

If you can't read the Title it's because I am swedish and in swedish the book is titled Svärdets makt (translates to the might of the sword even though the actual title is a storm of swords)

I have also read the Book in english online, but it's harder to follow when i must both translate and read, which makes it harder to get caught up in the book.

Brienne? :eek:

[Onion Seaworth]

Oh wow you actually read the book before the season? Crrraaaazy.

I read them well before that, I just wanted to clairify. I read them all after Season 1 of Game of thrones. What you're doing now is just being an ass.

Brienne? :eek:

You mean to say I look female... Well that hurts, but I don't photograph well so i don't blame you.

[Relic]

I read them well before that, I just wanted to clairify. I read them all after Season 1 of Game of thrones. What you're doing now is just being an ass.

I just don't know what that adds to the conversation. Honestly the moment you mentioned you enjoy gore, it makes you smile, i pretty much wrote you off as a nut job. But hey, at least you can read.

[Ser Not Appearing]

HOW DARE NOT EVERYONE AGREE WITH ME EXACTLY? MY PERSPECTIVE IS THE ONLY ONE I LIKE!

Chill people. Variety of thought, experience and response adds beauty to our world. Listen and learn. You don't have to agree in order to grow from hearing another perspective.

[trgryn-strk-lnstr-mrtell]

HOW DARE NOT EVERYONE AGREE WITH ME EXACTLY? MY PERSPECTIVE IS THE ONLY ONE I LIKE!

:fencing:

[Onion Seaworth]

I just don't know what that adds to the conversation. Honestly the moment you mentioned you enjoy gore, it makes you smile, i pretty much wrote you off as a nut job. But hey, at least you can read.

Damn right i enjoy gore in Video games and movies.

It's Gritty, dark and powerful.

There are ofcourse limits to what even I can endure. Guro for example makes me sick to my stomach. But when Gorey violence is done right it's a pure bliss.

And anything tha hurts me or makes me a bit horrified, scared, angry makes me smile... i dunno why. defense mechanism perhaps? (works well during fights lemme tell you)

But enough psychology.

I gave my opinions why I think the show did it better.

[Onion Seaworth]

HOW DARE NOT EVERYONE AGREE WITH ME EXACTLY? MY PERSPECTIVE IS THE ONLY ONE I LIKE!

Chill people. Variety of thought, experience and response adds beauty to our world. Listen and learn. You don't have to agree in order to grow from hearing another perspective.

I did not mean it like that. I just meant that it's astonishing how people can't seem to enjoy something so masterfully improved as what GoT did with Oberyns death.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I did not mean it like that. I just meant that it's astonishing how people can't seem to enjoy something so masterfully improved as what GoT did with Oberyns death.

The majority of this board complained about Season 1 which was about as close to the books you can possibly get. Go read the Season 1 threads, at least people now bring up decent points rather than complain about hair or eye color. It's just the nature of the fandom, best ignore it if you can't stand it.

[petertel123]

The Mountain or the Hound. I doubt he even thought of Oberyn, and aside from that, acting cocky like Oberyn does against a smarter and quicker fighter in Jamie would get him dealt with rather easily anyway.

jaime quicker? in the books perhaps but in the series he's not even close to oberyn