Peter George Stewart Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I have found a much better version of the Mountain vs. Oberyn online :D The guy who made this is brilliant, though the cuts are still annoying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwPvGezWrVY PS after this fight, you can really see where the choreographers got their inspiration from. There's a recent HBO vid about the choreography that tells you exactly where they got it from - from Wushu spear forms (there's even a clip of a Chinese expert helping out). But of course, the same influence is obviously part of the lightsabre choreography too (at least in the prequels, where the lightsabre stuff is light years ahead of the original trilogy in complexity and sophistication). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7th-key Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwPvGezWrVY PS after this fight, you can really see where the choreographers got their inspiration from. Yep, from the prequels containing the least emotionally involving fights in movie history... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I have found a much better version of the Mountain vs. Oberyn online :D The guy who made this is brilliant, though the cuts are still annoying. PS after this fight, you can really see where the choreographers got their inspiration from.Thats perfect. And you and I both know that Bjornsson will likely have a future on "Vikings." :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggsy Cyvasse Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 http://m.theepochtimes.com/n3/715324-oberyn-martell-vs-the-mountain-gregor-clegane-fight-scene-could-season-4-episode-8-death-happen-in-real-life/ We all know it's fantasy but still an interesting read and kind of counters a few of the assertions made in this discussion. Though they were kind of scant on actual figures or math to back it up, seems like we're supposed to just read their opinions knowing what their professions are and take it as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta11 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Yeah, that's what I thought. The skull is the thickest, most reinforced part of your skeleton. Even if you're an incredibly strong man, simply crushing it with your bare hands (after receiving a crippling wound, no less) seem a bit ridiculous. You have little pressure points yet must apply it to a very tough, smooth and relatively small surface. I'm no expert but I always thought it was highly implausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilúvatar Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 http://m.theepochtimes.com/n3/715324-oberyn-martell-vs-the-mountain-gregor-clegane-fight-scene-could-season-4-episode-8-death-happen-in-real-life/We all know it's fantasy but still an interesting read and kind of counters a few of the assertions made in this discussion. Though they were kind of scant on actual figures or math to back it up, seems like we're supposed to just read their opinions knowing what their professions are and take it as fact.I still think a Mythbusters special is called for. :D They should first test if it's humanly possible, and if that fails, they should increase the force based on what they think a fantasy freak of nature like the Mountain may be capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why So Serious? Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I still think a Mythbusters special is called for. :D They should first test if it's humanly possible, and if that fails, they should increase the force based on what they think a fantasy freak of nature like the Mountain may be capable of. A friend of mine and me were debating this actually. I think the force is something akin to 520 lbs necessary to crush a human skull without any interior pressure. Not sure what a "full" and skinned skull would allow for, maybe an extra hundred? Bjornsson, himself, can bench 507 lbs clean and that's at an upward angle....now add in downward force, the assistance of plate gloves, the angle he took (inside of the orbital), and the fact that his character is substantially larger and stronger.....yeah I think it's possible. Yeah....spent alot of time debating how to make a head explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastactionhero Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 In a universe where there's a red god who can ressurect the dead, dragons exist, and evil zombie ghouls threaten to destroy the world, does it really make sense to debate on the physics of whether or not Gregor could have actually made Oberyn's head explode? It was a little over the top, but the eye gouging, though horrifying, was thematically and emotionally powerful, which is a hell of a lot more important than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankou Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I just wish Karl Tanner could've had a shot at him. Fookin' coward! Drinking out of the skull o' Gregor fookin' Clegane in no time, he'd tell you all the skull physics you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenyatta Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Two problems I had with the duel: 1) Oberyn's scream at the end. Understandable given the eye gouging thing, but he deserved better than that. He didn't get his vengeance (or ,forgive the pun, he didn't live to see his vengeance), but give the guy the gosh darn courtesy to not go out screaming like a little bitch. And now I'm left with that as my lasting memory of Oberyn. Thanks a lot HBO!! Assholes... 2) With all the agility and reflexes of a ninja, you mean to tell me Oberyn gets knocked on his back and doesn't have the quicks to roll away from his opponent? Don't they teach you that the first day of martial arts? And don't get me started about the Mountain rolling over and grabbing him with a spear in his chest...let me repeat...HE HAD A SPEAR IN HIS CHEST!! I understand the "suspension of disbelief" that goes with watching tv and film but this is asking a whole hell of a lot from me. AND HOW DO YOU KNOCK SOMEONE'S TEETH OUT WHILE LYING ON YOUR BACK???? You can't possibly cock your arm back far enough to get the power you need to do such a thing. Really? Come on Man... Edited to add: I guess that's three problems I had with the duel. LOL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankbuster Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Actually, Oberyn pulls the spear out while saying "no, no, no...", and steps over him and I am sure if the mountain punches you with a mailed fist, you may lose a few teeth, just look at what happens to Pia. The only way it could have been better was if Oberyn was on top and the mountain was holding him in a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenyatta Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Actually, Oberyn pulls the spear out while saying "no, no, no...", and steps over him and I am sure if the mountain punches you with a mailed fist, you may lose a few teeth, just look at what happens to Pia. The only way it could have been better was if Oberyn was on top and the mountain was holding him in a grip. I stand corrected. In the tv show Oberyn pulls the spear out....but the point remains valid. It's a severe chest wound, and I don't care who you are, you don't get up and act like everything is okay after that. And my second point remains valid as well punching someone's teeth out require you to cock your fist back well behind your head, which is something lying on the ground doesn't allow. Try it. You're punching from AT LEAST twelve inches from your chest. Edited to add: I'm not saying you couldn't knock someone's tooth out with only...what. six, seven inches of room to work with, but you definitely couldn't bust someone's grill open from that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankbuster Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 As I said, Oberyn being on top would solve the problem. The mountain will drag him close, punch him with the mailed fist, then gouge his eyes out. It would look more feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenyatta Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 As I said, Oberyn being on top would solve the problem. The mountain will drag him close, punch him with the mailed fist, then gouge his eyes out. It would look more feasible. I don't get what your saying. Oberyn was on top when the Mountain punched him in the mouth, which is my whole point entirely. The Mountain being on top and punching him in the grill is much more realistic and is how I read it in the book. If i missed it then I call "bullshit" post facto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggsy Cyvasse Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 In a universe where there's a red god who can ressurect the dead, dragons exist, and evil zombie ghouls threaten to destroy the world, does it really make sense to debate on the physics of whether or not Gregor could have actually made Oberyn's head explode? It was a little over the top, but the eye gouging, though horrifying, was thematically and emotionally powerful, which is a hell of a lot more important than anything else. Yup, completely acknowledged that it's a fantasy world... in fact, it was the first thing I said after the link...Really, it's not that I'm arguing that it shouldn't have been done in the show because " we needs teh realisms"', as much as it is "on a side note, I wonder if that's humanly possible". Man, people feel the need to attack every sort of analysis of the scene that isn't "twas the best that ever was". No need for you to huff, and puff, and take me down a peg. Just thought the article was relevant, seeing how the possibility of this scenario playing out in reality was mentioned more than a few times. I wasn't dissatisfied with him crushing his head, though. Yeah- it probably wouldn't have popped like a balloon, but no biggie. Though I'm starting to come around to seeing why people thought the screaming from Oberyn worked, I still think him dying in such a brutal manner was visceral and sickening enough, but to each his own. It obviously worked in disgusting the bejeesus out of even the more hardened and desensitized individuals among the fandom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggsy Cyvasse Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I don't get what your saying. Oberyn was on top when the Mountain punched him in the mouth, which is my whole point entirely. The Mountain being on top and punching him in the grill is much more realistic and is how I read it in the book. If i missed it then I call "bullshit" post facto. I'm pretty sure Oberyn was on top through the whole thing, in the books. Correct me if I'm wrong, somebody. It's been a while since I read the chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why So Serious? Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Two problems I had with the duel: 1) Oberyn's scream at the end. Understandable given the eye gouging thing, but he deserved better than that. He didn't get his vengeance (or ,forgive the pun, he didn't live to see his vengeance), but give the guy the gosh darn courtesy to not go out screaming like a little bitch. And now I'm left with that as my lasting memory of Oberyn. Thanks a lot HBO!! Assholes... 2) With all the agility and reflexes of a ninja, you mean to tell me Oberyn gets knocked on his back and doesn't have the quicks to roll away from his opponent? Don't they teach you that the first day of martial arts? And don't get me started about the Mountain rolling over and grabbing him with a spear in his chest...let me repeat...HE HAD A SPEAR IN HIS CHEST!! I understand the "suspension of disbelief" that goes with watching tv and film but this is asking a whole hell of a lot from me. AND HOW DO YOU KNOCK SOMEONE'S TEETH OUT WHILE LYING ON YOUR BACK???? You can't possibly cock your arm back far enough to get the power you need to do such a thing. Really? Come on Man... Edited to add: I guess that's three problems I had with the duel. LOL!! LOL. He totally did go out screaming like a little bitch. How embarassing to be sitting in the driver's seat, ready to call down the thunder on this family you've been plotting against for years....and then you die screaming your head off in front of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why So Serious? Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I'm pretty sure Oberyn was on top through the whole thing, in the books. Correct me if I'm wrong, somebody. It's been a while since I read the chapter. I don't recall, but I thought he pole vaulted over the mountain in the book and broke the spear off in him. He was holding the mountain's sword when he got surprised, so maybe it was a ground punch in the book. All I know is the Red Viper became the Red Mist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter George Stewart Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 In a universe where there's a red god who can ressurect the dead, dragons exist, and evil zombie ghouls threaten to destroy the world, does it really make sense to debate on the physics of whether or not Gregor could have actually made Oberyn's head explode? It was a little over the top, but the eye gouging, though horrifying, was thematically and emotionally powerful, which is a hell of a lot more important than anything else. Whoa! Physics is physics, physiology is physiology, even in a fantasy world with magic. In fact, GRRM's very careful to avoid his magic being such that anything that happens in the world you can say "derp, magic". That said, given the parameters of the Mountain's strength, his mass, weight and armor, and his leveraged "grip" in the eye-sockets, the tv version of headsplat is definitely possible, physics-wise. Also re. the teeth punching from the ground, you don't need to "chamber" a punch for it to be quite hard, and especially not, given that the solidity of the ground is right behind you - there's a knack to it, not many people know it, but it's quite possible (again, especially given the stipulations of freakish strength and an armoured fist). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 I have found a much better version of the Mountain vs. Oberyn online :D The guy who made this is brilliant, though the cuts are still annoying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwPvGezWrVY PS after this fight, you can really see where the choreographers got their inspiration from. Yes, wushu became a big part of what they envisioned lightsaber combat as involving during the prequels. In part because Ray Park (Maul) was a wushu expert and was capable of all those moves. So when he somersaults and the like, that's him actually doing it, so the camera stays close in... Not-so-random fact: the average shot length of the "Duel of the Fates" is 2.2 seconds (from its start to the point where Maul and Qui-gon are separated by the force field), and features a lot of medium long shots featuring the full bodies of the performers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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