BearQueen87 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I have an idea about Prologue of TWOW/ADOS.We see a boy reading some scrolls with cryptic messages and maybe some dream/prophecy stuff in coded language (we readers already know the essentials, so no need for full reveal). Afterwards the boy leaves library, walks through the courtyard,where knights are practicing (maybe through some names like White Bull, Barristan the Bold). Boy walks to Master at Arms and says "Sir DarryIt seems I must be a warrior". How is that for a prologue? One of my wishes is for a prologue that is set in the past, so I'm in.In my head, TWOW is just what you describe and ADOS is the Rhaegar/Lyanna/Elia talking about what must be done for the prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I agree with this. I think the "promise me, Ned" is more than just "look after the baby." 1) don't let them kill my son 2) raise him as your own 3) Tell him someday. It's the third one that he couldn't keep. When Ned was in the Black Dungeons and Varys tells him that Cersei was going to let him take the Black, Ned thinks about Jon and how it would be good to sit and talk with him, tell him everything. I think he knew, at that point, that he had never fulfilled Lyanna's request, not all of them. But by taking the black, he could keep his promise and honor in regards to his sister. I agree with this, except since he clearly thinks of broken promises, I would add that I believe Ned felt conflicted about the second promise. He was painfully aware of Cat's rejection of Jon, recall his thoughts in the godswood with Cersei: "what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon’s life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would" Surely Ned would realize that this was falling tragically short of a pledge to raise the child as his own :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Earlier in AGoT, Ned thinks of the the prices he paid to keep the promises he made to Lyanna. It's only after he's arrested that he thinks of "blood and broken promises." I think the broken promises partially refers to Robert. He promised to raise his bastards as if they were his own, which he can't do from the black cells. Also, he's been hiding the Targaryen heir Robert's entire reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theon {HUNGRY WOLF} Stark Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 One of my wishes is for a prologue that is set in the past, so I'm in.In my head, TWOW is just what you describe and ADOS is the Rhaegar/Lyanna/Elia talking about what must be done for the prophecy.If Library scene fits TWOW, then we can expect the reveal of AAR/PTWP in that book. Also others must come in TWOW so that makes more sense, if Wall is breached halfway through the book,so that after some chapters AA can be revealed.And I have another scenes in mind. Bran having,some visions. One in Harrenhal near weirwood tree,one somewhere in Riverlands to show what happened when Lyanna disappeared, and if there are any weirwood,trees near ToJ, one vision showing convo between Hightower and Rhaegar. That convo is the biggest puzzle in figuring out why Hightower stayed back despite a war going on. I mean KG follow orders directly from king & Aerys aint,gonna order LC to stay,out,of war. Other two quite understandable.All three visions can fit nicely in one chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Earlier in AGoT, Ned thinks of the the prices he paid to keep the promises he made to Lyanna. It's only after he's arrested that he thinks of "blood and broken promises." I think the broken promises partially refers to Robert. He promised to raise his bastards as if they were his own, which he can't do from the black cells. Also, he's been hiding the Targaryen heir Robert's entire reign. Very good point! Of course this parallels the guilt he may be feeling over Jon... these children that he can neither raise as his own, nor inform of their true parentage. Interesting thing is that when he wakes from his dreams of blood and broken promises, he thinks of Cat. A pdf search of AGoT for "promises" reveals only 9 instances-- three are in Eddard POVs and one in Catelyn who recalls Ned riding off to war after their marriage with "promises on his lips." One has to wonder whether those promises are in play here as well ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Very good point! Of course this parallels the guilt he may be feeling over Jon... these children that he can neither raise as his own, nor inform of their true parentage. Interesting thing is that when he wakes from his dreams of blood and broken promises, he thinks of Cat. A pdf search of AGoT for "promises" reveals only 9 instances-- three are in Eddard POVs and one in Catelyn who recalls Ned riding off to war after their marriage with "promises on his lips." One has to wonder whether those promises are in play here as well ;) I think they could well be. If you take a look at the scene from Robert's death bed, there are some definite R+L=J parallels/linguistic similarities. Including the fact that Robert himself is in a bloody bed, though nothing like that phrase is used. When you think about it, Ned promises to care for the children of Lyanna and Robert, while they both are dying in beds of blood. Also, we shouldn't forget that this is the chapter (Eddard XIII) that begins with Ned's dream of the Winterfell crypts. He was walking through the crypts beneath Winterfell, as he he had walked a thousand times before. The Kings of Winter watched him pass with eyes of ice, and the direwolves at their feet turned their great stone heads and snarled. Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. “Promise me, Ned,” Lyanna’s statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood. Then, look at the dialogue from later on in the chapter. “Serve the boar at my funeral feast,” Robert rasped. “Apple in its mouth, skin seared crisp. Eat the bastard. Don’t care if you choke on him. Promise me, Ned.”“I promise.” Promise me, Ned, Lyanna’s voice echoed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I'd say that the promises were all meant for Lyanna. For instance, "Promise me he will live, promise me he will live the life he was meant to, promise me he will live as if he were your child". The first he kept, but the expense were the others - he would never live as a king, Cat despises him, he went to the wall, he never learned his heritage. She never knew about the Targ children, so she could've thought that Jon could live as a legitimate heir, but that was impossible, but Ned still promised. Something like that... ETA: Promise me to reveal him to his real brother and sister (especially if she was on with the prophecy), but no, they're dead. So this promise was broken from the beginning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I'd say that the promises were all meant for Lyanna. For instance, "Promise me he will live, promise me he will live the life he was meant to, promise me he will live as if he were your child". The first he kept, but the expense were the others - he would never live as a king, Cat despises him, he went to the wall, he never learned his heritage. She never knew about the Targ children, so she could've thought that Jon could live as a legitimate heir, but that was impossible, but Ned still promised. Something like that... ETA: Promise me to reveal him to his real brother and sister (especially if she was on with the prophecy), but no, they're dead. So this promise was broken from the beginning... Did Lyanna know that Elia and her children were killed? The fact that three KG's stayed at the Tower of Joy suggests to me that 1) the baby was not a bastard (marriage) and 2) that they were getting news somehow and knew that all the heirs were slain, thus baby boy "Jon" was now the heir apparent and they have their vows to keep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I agree with this, except since he clearly thinks of broken promises, I would add that I believe Ned felt conflicted about the second promise. He was painfully aware of Cat's rejection of Jon, recall his thoughts in the godswood with Cersei: "what would Catelyn do, if it were Jons life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would" Surely Ned would realize that this was falling tragically short of a pledge to raise the child as his own :(Agreed. (Has your project gone live yet)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I'd say that the promises were all meant for Lyanna. For instance, "Promise me he will live, promise me he will live the life he was meant to, promise me he will live as if he were your child". The first he kept, but the expense were the others - he would never live as a king, Cat despises him, he went to the wall, he never learned his heritage. She never knew about the Targ children, so she could've thought that Jon could live as a legitimate heir, but that was impossible, but Ned still promised. Something like that... ETA: Promise me to reveal him to his real brother and sister (especially if she was on with the prophecy), but no, they're dead. So this promise was broken from the beginning... Ned strikes me as the type of man to regret any broken promise. And though Lyanna was his blood, Robert had been his closest friend. I can't see him just shrugging off the promise to protect Robert's children without regret. Also, I believe Lyanna knew that Aegon and Rhaenys had been murdered. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister’s eyes. - AGoT, Eddard I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Did Lyanna know that Elia and her children were killed? The fact that three KG's stayed at the Tower of Joy suggests to me that 1) the baby was not a bastard (marriage) and 2) that they were getting news somehow and knew that all the heirs were slain, thus baby boy "Jon" was now the heir apparent and they have their vows to keep I totally agree with both 1 and 2 of your statements, I just think that Lyanna in her condition could never care nor would be told of those specifics... Ned strikes me as the type of man to regret any broken promise. And though Lyanna was his blood, Robert had been his closest friend. I can't see him just shrugging off the promise to protect Robert's children without regret. Also, I believe Lyanna knew that Aegon and Rhaenys had been murdered. - AGoT, Eddard I Well, but the Robert promises are not broken yet at this point, if Ned makes it out alive and sound, he could still keep them. And the whole feeling makes me think about old promises. It could just be me. I do understand your point, though. About Lyanna knowing, I'm skeptical. She could've suspected, but I doubt she'd really care or be told, even if they received that info. It would be cruel, really, to tell her that her child would probably be killed in those circumstances, even if they knew. I guess it was more a mother's instinct of "You're the only one who could do this, please", than a full awareness of the real dangers and the whole scope of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Well, but the Robert promises are not broken yet at this point, if Ned makes it out alive and sound, he could still keep them. And the whole feeling makes me think about old promises. It could just be me. I do understand your point, though. The same logic can be applied to the promises he made to Lyanna. About Lyanna knowing, I'm skeptical. She could've suspected, but I doubt she'd really care or be told, even if they received that info. It would be cruel, really, to tell her that her child would probably be killed in those circumstances, even if they knew. I guess it was more a mother's instinct of "You're the only one who could do this, please", than a full awareness of the real dangers and the whole scope of the situation. I think she'd care a great deal. The rebels murdered Aegon and Rhaenys because they were Rhaegar's children, just like Jon. So, their fate could well be his. Which is why she was afraid, until Ned gave her his word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Agreed.(Has your project gone live yet)? :D Not yet, but we've wrapped episode one and have a teaser! Looking to the future now and planning some very special episodes to come ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 The same logic can be applied to the promises he made to Lyanna. I think she'd care a great deal. The rebels murdered Aegon and Rhaenys because they were Rhaegar's children, just like Jon. So, their fate could well be his. Which is why she was afraid, until Ned gave her his word. I think she'd care. Wasn't one of the reasons (well to us, over the past 10 pages or so...) that Lyanna struck up with Rhaegar was to bring the prophecy into being? It may not have been her main reason, or evenher secondary reason (if love and getting away from Robert were those), but if she knew Rhaegar's plans for "there must be a third" then she'd be upset to learn that not only was her now-husband slain on the Trident but that all their plans were slain as well with the death of the other two children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I think she'd care. Wasn't one of the reasons (well to us, over the past 10 pages or so...) that Lyanna struck up with Rhaegar was to bring the prophecy into being? It may not have been her main reason, or evenher secondary reason (if love and getting away from Robert were those), but if she knew Rhaegar's plans for "there must be a third" then she'd be upset to learn that not only was her now-husband slain on the Trident but that all their plans were slain as well with the death of the other two children. It's not clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 It's not clear. Right that's why I put in the "to us..." since it has been discussed a lot lately in this and the previous thread. I'm going to to go on the assumption that she did know. So that, plus love for her husband, plus fear for her new baby I think she'd care if his other two children died. But I know we agree on that :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Right that's why I put in the "to us..." since it has been discussed a lot lately in this and the previous thread. I'm going to to go on the assumption that she did know. So that, plus love for her husband, plus fear for her new baby I think she'd care if his other two children died. But I know we agree on that :) Yeah, I think it's likely that Rhaegar told her about the prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 :D Not yet, but we've wrapped episode one and have a teaser! Looking to the future now and planning some very special episodes to come ;)Was that "Yolkboy" too?OMG Lady G, if the teaser is anything to go by, WELL DONE!!I'm so excited about this, and kudos for all the hard work the two of you put into an awesome project. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 It also occurs to me that Jon has two Uncles on that wall.How many "greats," is Aemon Jons uncle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 It also occurs to me that Jon has two Uncles on that wall.How many "greats," is Aemon Jons uncle? Viserys is his uncle. Aerys II is both his grandfather and great-uncle. Duncan the Small is his great-great-uncle. So Aemon is his great-great-great-uncle. Whew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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