Maester Llama Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Aw man, I forgot that death comes swirling down! I forgot that ever are men deceived. Ah, good times. After four-and-a-most books I'm pretty confident* in my decision that The Second Apocalypse and my reading brain just don't have matching story lego, but I do miss it sometimes. *"But what is confidence? It is the bird buffeted by the winds of the desert. It is the sranc driven by its wants, unknowing and uncaring that it is not its own master. It is the man who thinks he is in love. Man man man! Long parable! Ever are men deceived!" Speaking as a lapsed fan of the series -- who was never mentally swift enough to keep up with a lot of the next level philosophical stuff that is integral to its special place in fantasy -- I'd say you should definitely give it a try. [And definitely get beyond the prologue, which a lot of people seem to find leaden even though it has some bad ass moments.] The world is intricate, the plot twisty and epic and sprawling with lots of cosmic mystery as well as earthly political / military stuff. The writing is kind of faux-archaic and heavy, but its a tone Bakker brings off very well; it gives the setting and the events a sense of graveness and heft, I find. There are images from the series that are still with me -- Bakker does first rate body horror and writes a mean apocalyptic dream. Where things ended up not working out for me is that I realized that Earwa, the world in which the series takes place, could explode and I would not care. Because it is a shithole. Please do not misunderstand me: It is an intricately, often stunningly, thought-out, fascinating shithole freighted with epic drama. But a shithole it remains. Bakker is using the fact that Earwa is a shithole to ask questions that I'm sure are very interesting, but I'm just not willing to commit the mental energy to exploring them as played out on such an unrelentingly dour stage. The characters who inhabit this shithole are complex and interesting, but I feel profoundly alienated and detached from most of them. [Also the women. Good lord. I know the series has reasons for what it is doing here; I'm just not personally convinced it brings them off, and am also a little confused as to what might be accomplished by doing so. But smarter people than me have devoted many pixels to this.] I am interested in what is going on, sometimes intensely, but I am not emotionally gripped the way I am with some other series. There are sorcerers and huge armies and conniving politicians and creepy hellish crow-people. It is vast and brutal and complex. And it contains the line "death came swirling down." Try it! It's awesome! But it can also be dry and a little bit alienating -- though no more so than Dune, I don't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerPaladin Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I don't know if the text is dunyain or if we are erratics compounding horror on top of horror, but it is certainly a series that has opened my eyes. Some in places where I didn't previously have eyes, and shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 you are inchoroi, then, and the text is just another 'lover.' eww. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 You forgot HR Geiger. God, I'm glad someone else noticed that. It's too bad he's not around anymore to work on the eventual film version, cause omg the book sells teh millions and is the greatest thing since black semen, etc. Seriously though you even look through one of HR's art books? Giant penis alien monsters in giant vagina space ships shooting penises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 If you’re swayed by repetition: Best fantasy books that I, or anybody else, has ever read. (As many others, I found the first half of the first book difficult, so do persevere.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 One thing that has not been mentioned is that the prose is not particularly good, conversational or lyrical. If you're the kind of person that really likes good turns of phrase you may be disappointed. Similarly, if you're the kind of person that likes naturalistic conversations (similar to GRRM's works) it also may not work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 It's good, it's subtle, and it does have depth, but I found myself not really motivated in starting to read The Judging Eye. The pleasure I get from it is mainly in understanding what the author wants to say, or ask, or make the reader ask, whatever, and somehow, although it is good and touching many interesting themes, I found myself more willing to open the "non-genre" fiction classics I had still to get through. :dunno: But by all means, read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Persuade me to read this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Buck Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 It might be favorite piece of fantasy literature, I'm not sure and I don't like picking favorites because my mood changes, but regardless the series is, overall, ridiculously good with a few flaws, the greatest of which is the depiction of women, but I'm willing to give RSB the benefit of the doubt and see how he plays it. As of yet though, I find it hard to believe that any change in plot or characterization could really rectify the way women have been handled for four books (to be fair the second series is a teensy bit better in this regard, but not by much). That aside, it's still an outstanding series that I absolutely believe will be considered one of the greats in the years to come. It does things most fantasy authors don't think about trying, so far as the metaphysics of the world and how magic works and so on. Aside from Tolkien, I've never read a fantasy that delves so deeply into the nature of its cosmos while remaining incredibly consistent in quality. The first book is, in my opinion, the weakest. A couple of parts are kind of a slog, and the structure doesn't suit it very well. But from book two onward it's fine, and the actual writing gets better with every single installment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkynJay Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 If youre swayed by repetition: Best fantasy books that I, or anybody else, has ever read. (As many others, I found the first half of the first book difficult, so do persevere.)I flew through the first book. The first half of the second one on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 It's not subtle at all, the author has an active hand in endlessly shaming and degrading his characters at every opportunity, the philosophy is a stone club that's dragged across the pages, the women are treated like shit no matter how much others justify it, any sense that these people live in a functioning world is difficult to come by, and one of the main characters abilities is somehow so totally unbelievable as to stagger the mind and throw me out of the story every time I see his shithole face on the page. Other than that, it's good, and you should read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 arthy is therefore achamian. HE is proyas. kal is mimi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 It's not subtle at all, the author has an active hand in endlessly shaming and degrading his characters at every opportunity, the philosophy is a stone club that's dragged across the pages, the women are treated like shit no matter how much others justify it, any sense that these people live in a functioning world is difficult to come by, and one of the main characters abilities is somehow so totally unbelievable as to stagger the mind and throw me out of the story every time I see his shithole face on the page. Other than that, it's good, and you should read it. No blubbering on the slog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Lockesnow is probably Seswatha. Wrath is the orange tabby cat. Rhom is a random Skin Eater. To the coffers boys!!!! I could at least be Sarl, come on Trisk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 claims such as these must be limited to the pleadings in this thread. rhom, you are accordingly inhabiting the role of the captain, unless you didn't kill arthy for blubbering, in which case, I suppose you could be sarl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 claims such as these must be limited to the pleadings in this thread. rhom, you are accordingly inhabiting the role of the captain, unless you didn't kill arthy for blubbering, in which case, I suppose you could be sarl. In my head I totally stabbed him in the eye. Does that count in the metaphysics of the Westeros corner of teh intrawebz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Hands warm heart Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Here is an author you mite try, Alfred Coppel. He wrote a 3 book series, in 1993 the first book came out, it was called Glory. 2nd book Glorys' war then Glory's People. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 is the omnibus entitled Glory Whole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Hands warm heart Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 is the omnibus entitled Glory Whole? if that is what you need it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 see, that won't work. we're on the inside. that kinda subjectivism only applies on the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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