Feminism - Frightbats Galore!

[karaddin]

Not if it's by a scary stranger who jumps out of an alley way and beats them up then rapes them!

[KiDisaster]

Not if it's by a scary stranger who jumps out of an alley way and beats them up then rapes them!

This, after all, is the only real rape. Anything else is just a misunderstanding. /s

Ugh.

[john]

Yeah, I don't see that as offensive. It's just a hilarious relic of old law.

Yeah, it's just somebody who lacks the mental capacity to consent. Scotland actually had that protection in our laws before anybody else did.

The clandestine injury thing was more of an issue since it was a lesser offence to rape. And we continued charging people with it long after that crime was falling within the definition of rape in other jurisdictions.

[brook]

Well it depends. If a man is raped by a woman it's hilarious of course and he's lucky.

If he's a straight man raped by another man it doesn't matter what the circumstances its a very very serious crime and nothing at all like what happens to those silly girls who drink and flirt too much and get what is coming to them and then cry rape.

I find it very hard to believe that this judge would have made the same comments if the victim here was a straight man http://www.salon.com/2014/07/03/judge_says_man_who_raped_sleeping_woman_is_not_a_classic_rapist_just_lost_control/

Gay guys I assume are just presumed to be up for it all the time with absolutely anyone so how could they be raped?

[Shryke]

Well it depends. If a man is raped by a woman it's hilarious of course and he's lucky.

If he's a straight man raped by another man it doesn't matter what the circumstances its a very very serious crime and nothing at all like what happens to those silly girls who drink and flirt too much and get what is coming to them and then cry rape.

I find it very hard to believe that this judge would have made the same comments if the victim here was a straight man http://www.salon.com/2014/07/03/judge_says_man_who_raped_sleeping_woman_is_not_a_classic_rapist_just_lost_control/

Gay guys I assume are just presumed to be up for it all the time with absolutely anyone so how could they be raped?

He wouldn't say the same thing, but it would be equally as demeaning for a man-on-man rape. Which is less regarded as a serious crime and more regarded as the rapee man being weak and a "pussy" or some such similar thing.

I always thought Dave Chappelle covered this well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLWlBgj0uOc&feature=kp

Go go gender roles....

[LongRider]

If a man were raped by a woman, he wouldn't be "lucky" he'd be raped. Why the double standard?

[Galactus]

If a man were raped by a woman, he wouldn't be "lucky" he'd be raped. Why the double standard?

Because: Patriarchy.

[brook]

See while I agree he (and society in general) would be equally or in some ways more terrible towards the victim I think the offender would be more likely to be treated as an actual criminal rather than just some poor guy that naturally couldn't help himself.

[LongRider]

See while I agree he (and society in general) would be equally or in some ways more terrible towards the victim I think the offender would be more likely to be treated as an actual criminal rather than just some poor guy that naturally couldn't help himself.

Well, sometimes. There were lotsa folks who defended Jerry Sandusky and that (American) football coach from what? the University of Pennsylvania (?)

Anyway, the point is, still plenty of victim blaming and shaming in those cases too.

:crying:

[karaddin]

If you want to argue about whether esports are sports that's a topic for another thread. I'll join you in that thread, but that conversation has fucking nothing to do with feminism.

[john]

See while I agree he (and society in general) would be equally or in some ways more terrible towards the victim I think the offender would be more likely to be treated as an actual criminal rather than just some poor guy that naturally couldn't help himself.

Here's the thing - a woman can't rape a man by enveloping his penis with her vagina. She has to penetrate him. It's automatically a more violent crime and seen as such. Male on female can be, and apparently still is, seen as mistake sex.

[LongRider]

John, penetration can be done with objects, but enough of this! Ugh! (not directed @ you John, I've just had enough of the topic)

Anyway, the issue about esports was the exclusion of women at the top level of competition. But apparently, that rule didn't last long.

[Enguerrand]

Here's the thing - a woman can't rape a man by enveloping his penis with her vagina. She has to penetrate him. It's automatically a more violent crime and seen as such. Male on female can be, and apparently still is, seen as mistake sex.

A false yet common and dangerous misconception. An erection can be induced by mechanical stimulation in justabout any young man, it doesn't have to mean they are enjoying themselves and it most definitely isn't consent.

In fact, just like the women who achieve orgasm during rape, it adds substantially to the psychological trauma.

You might find Richard Morgan's article about his rape experience enlightening.

.http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/07/01/my-own-rape-shows-how-badly-we-stereotype-perps-and-victims/

[john]

A false yet common and dangerous misconception. An erection can be induced by mechanical stimulation in justabout any young man, it doesn't have to mean they are enjoying themselves and it most definitely isn't consent.

In fact, just like the women who achieve orgasm during rape, it adds substantially to the psychological trauma.

Not a misconception. Legal systems which allow this are relatively few and the term rape isn't used. What you describe would usually be prosecuted as sexual assault. That might be the next evolution in rape law but it's not here yet.

[Enguerrand]

Not a misconception. Legal systems which allow this are relatively few and the term rape isn't used. What you describe would usually be prosecuted as sexual assault. That might be the next evolution in rape law but it's not here yet.

Perhaps were you live, Using a women intoxicated or drugged sexually against their will is prosecuted as rape were I come from and I very much doubt Robert Morgan' assailant could have escaped a rape conviction could his story be proven true even in the US. Of course his rapist was a man,

[HairBearHero]

Enguerrand, you seem to be missing John's point - currently, in most legal jurisdictions, rape is defined as involuntary penetration, ergo a woman cannot rape a man with her vagina. He's not making an argument about whether that's right or wrong.

[Summah]

John, I don't know where you live but where I live the law calls rape sexual assault anyway, the word rape is not used, however there are degrees of sexual assault, so I'm not seeing the difference you're seeing.

But I agree with whoever said it above, enough of this. I'm sick of this topic always derailing to rape of men.

[sologdin]

are there any rape statutes that actually state that the rape victim is the one who is penetrated? louisiana's statute simply says that any penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the crime. it does not identify who does the penetration or with which parcel.

[Galactus]

1 § Den som genom misshandel eller annars med våld eller genom hot om brottslig gärning tvingar en person till samlag eller till att företa eller tåla en annan sexuell handling som med hänsyn till kränkningens allvar är jämförlig med samlag, döms för våldtäkt till fängelse i lägst två och högst sex år.

Detsamma gäller den som med en person genomför ett samlag eller en sexuell handling som enligt första stycket är jämförlig med samlag genom att otillbörligt utnyttja att personen på grund av medvetslöshet, sömn, allvarlig rädsla, berusning eller annan drogpåverkan, sjukdom, kroppsskada eller psykisk störning eller annars med hänsyn till omständigheterna befinner sig i en särskilt utsatt situation.

That's the original swedish text, my translation:

"§1 The person who through batter/abuse (the actual legal term for inflicting violence on another person) or otherwise through violence or threat of criminal acts forces another person to sexual intercourse or to perform or accept such sexual act that, in consideration taken to the kind and seriousness of the violation is comparable to intercourse, is sentenced for rape to at least two and at most six years.

The same is true for the person who performs intercourse or sexual act that according to first section is comparable to intercourse, by improperly (that sounds a bit weak, the swedish word is stronger but I can't find a proper english substitute) abusing the act that the person due to unconsciousness, sleep, serious fear, intoxication or other influence due to drugs, illness, bodily injury or mental disturbance or otherwise due to the situation is considered to be in a particularly vulnerable position."

That's "just rape", there's also aggravated rape, and a bunch of lesser charges.

[john]

are there any rape statutes that actually state that the rape victim is the one who is penetrated? louisiana's statute simply says that any penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the crime. it does not identify who does the penetration or with which parcel.

Well yeah, most of them. Most US states have more sophisticated formulations than elsewhere. About half of them use the aggravated sexual assault style definition.

Here's the advice from the UN Department of Economic and Social Affairs Division for the Advancement of Women, from Wikipedia

Legislation should:

• Define sexual assault as a violation of bodily integrity and sexual autonomy;

Replace existing offences of rape and “indecent” assault with a broad offence of sexual assault graded based on harm;

Provide for aggravating circumstances including, but not limited to, the age of the survivor, the relationship of the perpetrator and survivor, the use or threat of violence, the presence of multiple perpetrators, and grave physical or mental consequences of the attack on the victim;

Remove any requirement that sexual assault be committed by force or violence, and any requirement of proof of penetration, and minimize secondary victimization of the complainant/survivor in proceedings by enacting a definition of sexual assault that either:

Requires the existence of “unequivocal and voluntary agreement” and requiring proof by the accused of steps taken to ascertain whether the complainant/survivor was consenting; or

Requires that the act take place in “coercive circumstances” and includes a broad range of coercive circumstances; and

• Specifically criminalize sexual assault within a relationship (i.e., “marital rape”), either by:

Providing that sexual assault provisions apply “irrespective of the nature of the relationship” between the perpetrator and complainant; or

Stating that “no marriage or other relationship shall constitute a defence to a charge of sexual assault under the legislation.”