Trigger Warning Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Sorry I didn't really say what I wanted to say...it's a bit late here in Spain...I meant that Robert is the kind of guy who doesn't watch his defense, always going straight forward. A faster rival could just surround him, attack the joints and weaknesses, ala Oberyn with The Mountain. Or he could just pile on Dayne and grapple him down.But really Bob loves warfare and fighting, he's been trained all his life. Just because of his personality I don't think it means he'll charge into a fight without considering positioning, armour, footing weapons etc whilst swinging his hammer wildly. I suspect fighting would be one of the few areas of life where Robert does pay attention to such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fresh PtwP Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Sorry I didn't really say what I wanted to say...it's a bit late here in Spain...I meant that Robert is the kind of guy who doesn't watch his defense, always going straight forward. A faster rival could just surround him, attack the joints and weaknesses, ala Oberyn with The Mountain. People need to get this fight out of their heads quickly for this to be an accurate discussion. Arthur isn't some light-footed, spear wielding Prince, He's a knight who fights in plate goddamned armour And Robert doesn't wear custom, 10-ton armour like the Mountain does. I think he can move around with a tad more freedom than a Mountain wearing a castle. I mean how do we even know Robert is slow?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Also I don't think the Mountain is a good comparison what with him being a fantasy being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 People need to get this fight out of their heads quickly for this to be an accurate discussion. Arthur isn't some light-footed, spear wielding Prince, He's a knight who fights in plate goddamned armour And Robert doesn't wear custom, 10-ton armour like the Mountain does. I think he can move around with a tad more freedom than a Mountain wearing a castle. I mean how do we even know Robert is slow?!? Even the Mountain is supposed to be faster than he looks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Or he could just pile on Dayne and grapple him down.But really Bob loves warfare and fighting, he's been trained all his life. Just because of his personality I don't think it means he'll charge into a fight without considering positioning, armour, footing weapons etc whilst swinging his hammer wildly. I suspect fighting would be one of the few areas of life where Robert does pay attention to such things. Didn't he do that against Rhaegar? He was looking for him; he didn't give a f*** about anything else, he was driven mad by rage. People need to get this fight out of their heads quickly for this to be an accurate discussion. Arthur isn't some light-footed, spear wielding Prince, He's a knight who fights in plate goddamned armour And Robert doesn't wear custom, 10-ton armour like the Mountain does. I think he can move around with a tad more freedom than a Mountain wearing a castle. I mean how do we even know Robert is slow?!? Robert isn't the Mountain, and Arthur isn't Oberyn, true. But the way Arthur would attack Robert is that one. You can't go straight forward against Robert unless you want to be destroyed. Arthur would wait for him, as Oberyn did. He's not stupid. Also, Robert doesn't strike me as faster than Arthur. I'm not saying he's slow, I'm just saying Arthur was the best swordman of his age; he was, for sure, faster than him. Dawn doesn't seem like a heavy sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Didn't he do that against Rhaegar? He was looking for him; he didn't give a f*** about anything else, he was driven mad by rage. Robert isn't the Mountain, and Arthur isn't Oberyn, true. But the way Arthur would attack Robert is that. You can't go straight forward against Robert unless you want to be destroyed. Arthur would wait for him, as Oberyn did. He's not stupid. Also, Robert doesn't strike me as faster than Arthur. I'm not saying he's slow, I'm just saying Arthir was the best swordman of his age; he was, for sure, faster than him.Well cutting the head off of the snake may have been one of his aims. We don't know the circumstances of the battle, maybe he saw the prince was open and charged with his retinue à la Richard III. Even if he did seek him out it doesn't mean he engaged without care landing blows wildly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyBanana Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Swords are for thrusting and cutting, not slashing. If i show you a video of a guy trying to stab someone with a hammer to death, it'll look equally ridiculous. It'd probably be one of the most even and badass fights ever in aSoIaF. Arthur has better range, Robert the better weapon against plate armor, they're both very skilled, with a slight edge for Dayne. In a melee they'll still have means to injure the opponent (Robert's spike/Dawn's hilt or cutting) but they'll have to resort to dirks eventually. My personal guess is that Robert's wrath wins out and he kills Dayne on the battlefield but dies shortly later due to grievous wounds. Under any different circumstances than at the Trident, though, i'll have to go with Arthur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Swords are for thrusting and cutting, not slashing. If i show you a video of a guy trying to stab someone with a hammer to death, it'll look equally ridiculous.What? This makes little sense, I am struggling to figure out what you mean man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Also I don't think the Mountain is a good comparison what with him being a fantasy being. Actually, they are all fantasy beings with fantasy weapons and fantasy capabilities. Either one of these formidable characters could win this speculative fight if GRRM chooses to write it that way. He is very knowledgeable of medieval armour, weapons and fighting techniques and is quite capable of presenting either warrior as the victor in a very believable way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 What does better mean in this context? The legend is that Dawn is made from a metoerite. And according to G.R.R.M. it is stronger than Valyrian steel. That's why he says Dayne with Dawn would best Barristan. Otherwise they're even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelx Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Seriously: people putting Jaime in the absolute top are excluding themselves from any discussion on the topic. I'm not saying he is better than Dayne or Daemon. If you look at my tier list (I have Jaime in high tier and the others excluding few in Elite tier). Nonetheless, he is still a legendary swordsman and one of the greatest (Acc. to GRRM). How would you ever defend this statement of yours? The only things he has done, which grants him any combat glory at all, is to have crossed swords with Smiling Knight and defeating northmen in the Whisipering Woods. Other than that, he has ... killed an old man, got shoved to the ground by Robert, and then got his ass handed to him by a GIRL. 1. Knighted by Dayne on the battlefield (how can you get knighted by the greatest knight if you're not good?) 2. Barristan - Best natural swordsman Jaime is all about bragging and not doing shit except attacking people with an advantage of 20:3 or threatening to kill people's babies if they do not yield. Jaime definitely wasted his potential, but then again it doesn't diminish his skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyBanana Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 What? This makes little sense, I am struggling to figure out what you mean man. Swords are not "lol useless" against armored opponents. It's just not true. Slashing (like in the video which was linked in this thread) was only used to cut off limbs or heads if the neck/throat was unprotected. The hammer is an advantage, no doubt, but it doesn't give Robert the win by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 ` This thread is getting ridiculous. Now Arthur Dayne, the greatest knight of his day according to Martin, is getting his credentials questioned. Could a prime Barristan beat Robert? Because Dayne was Barristan's equal (better with Dawn). It was Dayne, not Barristan, who was sent to deal with the Kingswood Brotherhood. And at some point, more experience doesn't mean shit. A boxer with three championship fights going against a guy with seven championship fights isn't considered inexperienced. A team playing in it's second Super Bowl against a team that has played in five isn't considered inexperienced. Regardless of how many battles Robert has fought in, I'm confident in saying that Arthur isn't lacking in the experience category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRhaegar Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Arthur Dayne was killed by Ned (yeah, Howland helped, I know). Remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Arthur Dayne was killed by Ned (yeah, Howland helped, I know). Remember that.He was killed because he was outnumbered. The fact the he and his comrades took out five of Ned's men was impressive. They aren't super warriors, they can't fight several men at once. Aemon the Dragonknight died fighting two Toyne brothers, and he was considered the greatest warrior of his day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Second, he doesn't say anything about his being less than Dayne. He just says no one is peerless. Which is the view of a realistic pragmatist. Anyone can beat anyone on any given day. Anyone who's used a longsword knows that. These two, along with Barristan are all part of that "too close to call" range at the top. Although I am getting really really really sick hearing that Robert (and every "big" character) has no skill. Where do we EVER hear that! Indeed. A lot of thise, 'who the greatest is', in-universe is opinion, and the top fighters could be viewed on a constantly rotating axis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 The last one from Stannis is ironic I think that is sarcastic, not ironic. Since Stannis is just exaggerating what Robert would do rather than describing the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Dawn isn't a valyrian steel sword it's even better. How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion'sNose Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Robbert has the advantage at the beginning of the fight but if he doesn't win in the first couple of blows the advantage goes to Dayne. So that being said in a 100 fights I would say they go 48/52. the winner of 1 v 1 is usually decided on luck. I think anyone can beat anyone if the circumstances are right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Robert, at his prime, is a 2 m (6'6 ft) and 100kg (220 pounds) guy with an extraordinary physical form and a dangerous hammer...but he strikes me as the kind of warrior who doesn't watch his back. Yes, if anyone (Arthur, Selmy, etc) gets smashed by his hammer, he's done. But I'm pretty sure there are faster fighters out there who could just made him a version of the Mountain... I think at 16 stones (at that height) Rob would look a little thin, he is meant to be big, I would estimate his weight at more 18 stones minimum, athletic, like a taller version of Jason Momoa. Wouldn't affect speed, former World's Strongest Man Geoff Capes was over 25 stones and could run 100 metres in under 12 seconds and 200 metres in under 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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