Sansa the Stark Savior? I think not.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

That does not make sense because Harry already has a noble name and he apprarently has the support of some important Vale Lords, which can make his inheritance of the seat of Arryn very smooth should SR dies. Blood matters, not surnames.

Seems that those rules, where it's OK for Beren Tallhart to accept Hornwood's name along with Hornwood's lands, yet impossible for Harry Hardyng to take Arryn's name along with Arryn's lands, simply have no confirmation in the text, you're making them up. Prove me wrong, a quote from the books will do.

[Lee-Sensei]

That does not make sense because Harry already has a noble name and he apprarently has the support of some important Vale Lords, which can make his inheritance of the seat of Arryn very smooth should SR dies. Blood matters, not surnames.

Noble Houses that are loyal to the Arryns. He inherits the Vale of Arryn, through his Arryn grandmother. Why wouldn't he take on the Arryn name to rule the Vale of Arryn?

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

1) Again, they're still in-laws unless there was a divorce and as far as we know, there wasn't one. Lady Dustin also hates Ned who isn't a relative of hers in any sense of the word.

2) Sure, they'd probably break ties with the Boltons if they knew they were going to lose, but that's getting away from the original point. The Dustins and the Ryswells aren't Stark loyalists.

3) I don't need it. I've read the GNC theories. I just don't believe them when it comes to the Ryswells and Dustins. I think it's only natural for there to be a few disloyal upper tier bannermen in all Kingdoms.

4) Do you remember the text having Lady Dustin professing any love or loyalty to the Starks? I don't. In fact she says she hates the Starks and wants to feed Ned's bones to her dogs.

5) I don't, but loyalty to the Boltons or not... they aren't friends of the Starks. That much is clear.

What I'm saying is, Barbary Dustin has already done the math about the people she hates; with the way she's prioritized vendettas, the stark she hates most dead (in fact, the only Stark she really hates), and her in-laws guilty of her beloved nephew's murder, she's already thrown in her lot with Manderly for a Stark heir because they know that 1) who "Arya" really is (Brave Danny Flint's song was played for the wedding, along with the Rat Cook), 2) to get her revenge on the Freys, they have to get through Roose, and 3)they have to get through Roose to get to Ramsay. I.E.

The Starks are simply reliable and a safe, vanilla option, while everyone knows that Roose and Ramsay are monsters. Look it at this way, any West Lord would throw in his lot for a young Jaime or Tyrion if it the other option was Roose Bolton, even if Tywin was not always the most gentle of lords. Tywin was stable, generally fair with his vassals by all acounts. It's just good sense.

[Mithras]

Noble Houses that are loyal to the Arryns. He inherits the Vale of Arryn, through his Arryn grandmother. Why wouldn't he take on the Arryn name to rule the Vale of Arryn?

Why would he?

[Mithras]

Seems that those rules, where it's OK for Beren Tallhart to accept Hornwood's name along with Hornwood's lands, yet impossible for Harry Hardyng to take Arryn's name along with Arryn's lands, simply have no confirmation in the text, you're making them up. Prove me wrong, a quote from the books will do.

Robert's paternal grandma was a Targ but he didnot change his surname to Targaryen after the rebellion although he "inherited" whatever belonging to Targaryens. Harry's maternal grandma was an Arryn and he does not have to change his name to Arryn to claim the Arryn lands and titles.

[RainGhost]

If Sansa inherits, her children will take the name Stark whoever her husband is because only the Starks can rule the north, same as Harry the Heir would have to take the name Arryn to continue that line. But there are still 3 male Starks left before Sansa inherits anyway, so I don't see it as that likely.

[Mithras]

If Sansa inherits, her children will take the name Stark whoever her husband is because only the Starks can rule the north, same as Harry the Heir would have to take the name Arryn to continue that line. But there are still 3 male Starks left before Sansa inherits anyway, so I don't see it as that likely.

Ramsay didnot take Stark surname when he married fArya.

[Lee-Sensei]

Robert's paternal grandma was a Targ but he didnot change his surname to Targaryen after the rebellion although he "inherited" whatever belonging to Targaryens. Harry's maternal grandma was an Arryn and he does not have to change his name to Arryn to claim the Arryn lands and titles.

Because it's the Vale of Arryn, not he Vale of Hardyng. The Arryn's have ruled the Vale for over 6,000 years.

What I'm saying is, Barbary Dustin has already done the math about the people she hates; with the way she's prioritized vendettas, the stark she hates most dead (in fact, the only Stark she really hates), and her in-laws guilty of her beloved nephew's murder, she's already thrown in her lot with Manderly for a Stark heir because they know that 1) who "Arya" really is (Brave Danny Flint's song was played for the wedding, along with the Rat Cook), 2) to get her revenge on the Freys, they have to get through Roose, and 3)they have to get through Roose to get to Ramsay. I.E.

The Starks are simply reliable and a safe, vanilla option, while everyone knows that Roose and Ramsay are monsters. Look it at this way, any West Lord would throw in his lot for a young Jaime or Tyrion if it the other option was Roose Bolton, even if Tywin was not always the most gentle of lords. Tywin was stable, generally fair with his vassals by all acounts. It's just good sense.

We're never going to agree on this, so I'll just say this. Whether Lady Dustin likes the Bolton's or not, she certainly doesn't like the Starks and isn't loyal to the Starks. If she switches over to their side, it'll probably be out of self preservation than any sense of loyalty to their ex-liege lords.

[Mithras]

Because it's the Vale of Arryn, not he Vale of Hardyng. The Arryn's have ruled the Vale for over 6,000 years.

Starks ruled the North more than 8000 years yet a legitimized Bastard (Ramsay) didnot take Stark name. Mander is still called after the Manderlys. It is still the Casterly Rock although the Casterlys went extinct ages ago.

[Lee-Sensei]

Starks ruled the North more than 8000 years yet a legitimized Bastard (Ramsay) didnot take Stark name. Mander is still called after the Manderlys. It is still the Casterly Rock although the Casterlys went extinct ages ago.

Ramsay didn't take a Stark name for two reasons.

1) Because he's not really the Lord of Winterfell. Roose Bolton is.

2) He's not a Stark by birth, like Harry is.

3) In this situation House Bolton is replacing House Stark and they married him to Arya to ease the transition. The truth is House Stark has been replaced.Harry wouldn't be replacing House Arryn. He's inheriting the Vale through his Arryn grandmother. I doubt they've gone 6,000 years with out inheriting through the female line at a few points.

[Mithras]

Ramsay didn't take a Stark name for two reasons.

1) Because he's not really the Lord of Winterfell. Roose Bolton is.

2) He's not a Stark by birth, like Harry is.

3) In this situation House Bolton is replacing House Stark and they married him to Arya to ease the transition. The truth is House Stark has been replaced.Harry wouldn't be replacing House Arryn. He's inheriting the Vale through his Arryn grandmother. I doubt they've gone 6,000 years with out inheriting through the female line at a few points.

1) Roose is not Lord of Winterfell

2) Harry is not an Arryn by birth. He is a Hardyng.

3) House Durrendon was replaced too. But their blood continued in the female line with a different name. House Arryn might be replaced as well but their blood continues in the female line through Harry, who has no reason to take Arryn surname. Lack of evidence is not evidence.

[Lee-Sensei]

1) Roose is not Lord of Winterfell

2) Harry is not an Arryn by birth. He is a Hardyng.

3) House Durrendon was replaced too. But their blood continued in the female line with a different name. House Arryn might be replaced as well but their blood continues in the female line through Harry, who has no reason to take Arryn surname. Lack of evidence is not evidence.

1) Do you have a quote?

2) Harry is an Arryn through his grandmother. He's an Arryn by blood.

3) House Durrendon was replaced by House Baratheon in much the same way as House Bolton has replaced House Stark. In both cases the original House is wiped out except for the female. The heir/Lord of this new House takes the daughter of the defeated Lord as a wife to stabilize the region, but essentially replaces it. Ramsay and Orys didn't have Stark and Durrendon blood. Harry has Arryn blood. It's not the same thing. Well you certainly don't have evidence. You made the claim. Can you prove it?

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Robert's paternal grandma was a Targ but he didnot change his surname to Targaryen after the rebellion although he "inherited" whatever belonging to Targaryens. Harry's maternal grandma was an Arryn and he does not have to change his name to Arryn to claim the Arryn lands and titles.

Are you changing your position? Yesterday, it was "name change is impossible, never, ever, nobody, didn't happen, can't happen, and a great sin, too". Now it seems to be "Harrold Hardyng doesn't need to change his name". Which one is it?

[Mithras]

1) Do you have a quote?

2) Harry is an Arryn through his grandmother. He's an Arryn by blood.

3) House Durrendon was replaced by House Baratheon in much the same way as House Bolton has replaced House Stark. In both cases the original House is wiped out except for the female. The heir/Lord of this new House takes the daughter of the defeated Lord as a wife to stabilize the region, but essentially replaces it. Ramsay and Orys didn't have Stark and Durrendon blood. Harry has Arryn blood. It's not the same thing. Well you certainly don't have evidence. You made the claim. Can you prove it?

1) Roose is the Lord of Dreadfort and Warden of the North. You should provide a quote where he was appointed as the Lord of Winterfell.

2) No, he is a Hardyng. He also happens to be the closest blood relative of SR alive, which makes it possible for him to inherit Arryn lands and titles. But there is no evidence that he plans to have Arryn name after the death of SR. That is wishful thinking.

3) You should bring an evidence which suggests that Harry wants to take Arryn name after the death of SR.

Are you changing your position? Yesterday, it was "name change is impossible, never, ever, nobody, didn't happen, can't happen, and a great sin, too". Now it seems to be "Harrold Hardyng doesn't need to change his name". Which one is it?

Where in the books it is stated that Harry wants to change his name?

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Where in the books it is stated that Harry wants to change his name?

Answering question with a question? I can do that, too. Won't lead anywhere, but sure as hell will increase the post count, until the mods start deleting pointless posts.

But I would really like it, if you actually answered mine, first. Let me remind you. Are you changing your position? Yesterday, it was "name change is impossible, never, ever, nobody, didn't happen, can't happen, and a great sin, too". Now it seems to be "Harrold Hardyng doesn't need to change his name". Which one is it?

[Mithras]

Answering question with a question? I can do that, too. Won't lead anywhere, but sure as hell will increase the post count, until the mods start deleting pointless posts.

But I would really like it, if you actually answered mine, first. Let me remind you. Are you changing your position? Yesterday, it was "name change is impossible, never, ever, nobody, didn't happen, can't happen, and a great sin, too". Now it seems to be "Harrold Hardyng doesn't need to change his name". Which one is it?

My position is this: Harry changing his name to Arryn is beyond stupid and there is no evidence in the text to show that.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

My position is this: Harry changing his name to Arryn is beyond stupid and there is no evidence in the text to show that.

Beyond stupid? Wow, that's harsh. OK, at least we're clear now, have a nice day.

[David Selig]

My position is this: Harry changing his name to Arryn is beyond stupid and there is no evidence in the text to show that.

Sure, getting to be the Lord of a whole prosperous region at the price of changing a few letters in his name is real dumb stuff... :cool4:

[Mithras]

Sure, getting to be the Lord of a whole prosperous region at the price of changing a few letters in his name is real dumb stuff... :cool4:

Where does it say that there is a price to pay for inheriting something which is his by right of blood and that price is changing his name?

[The Academic Wolf]

My position is this: Harry changing his name to Arryn is beyond stupid and there is no evidence in the text to show that.

Beyond stupid? We are given a clear example in the Hornwood case. We are led to believe that one of the reasons why Robert was so paranoid about Targaryens being alive was because he ruled as a Baratheon, not a Targaryen, which would be the more normal thing if the royal family was destroyed- that claim through his paternal grandmother was merely a shaky legitimisation of Robert taking the throne by Conquest.

I disagree with Lee Sensei about many things, but (s)he has already pointed out the obvious examples of when this is not followed, namely the Durrandons being replaced by the Baratheons, and the Starks by the Boltons (as temporary as that may prove to be), with a marriage in those case being used to justify the replacement of those Houses.

Your mistake seems to be that you believe that this is medieval Europe. It is not. It is Westeros, where Martin dictates what is and is not feudal. In Martin's world, families and dynasties rule for millennia- the Starks are the oldest Great House at 8000, but the Lannisters and Arryns are not too far behind. We have been told that succession is passed from a man or woman to his children, with daughters coming before brothers. You are telling us that the succession has never gone through females, ever before? In Martin's world, there is a clear tradition of ensuring that names survive, unless you are attempting to replace or destroy that House, which we have seen has almost never happened- even House Mudd has people in the timeline of the novels who claim the name. The few that have are held up as cautionary tales for the other House- the pride of Argilac the Arrogant is mentioned, as is the foolishness of Harren Hoare in causing their Houses to be destroyed.

I struggle to comprehend why you refuse to accept what is clearly accepted within the world of aSoIaF itself, with the exceptions being remarked on quite deliberately by characters within the story itself.